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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> More than one position on the Choke? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1494623429 Message started by Andy RN on 05/12/17 at 14:10:29 |
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Title: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Andy RN on 05/12/17 at 14:10:29 Forgive me if this question has already been answered - I did a search but found no results... It seems like there are multiple positions into which I can pull out the Choke - is that correct? If so, why, and when would I use the different positions rather than just pulling it all the way out? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by verslagen1 on 05/12/17 at 14:17:10 Use the one that works for you. I generally only go to the 1st notch, but on really cold days, full. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Dave on 05/12/17 at 14:17:42 Yes, it has multiple positions. You can pull it all the way out to start the bike (if you need to), then push it in a notch as it warms up....the push it all the way in when the bike will idle smoothly. Just do whatever works for you.....if you don't ride in freezing weather you may never need to use Full Choke. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by TheNaughtyLemur on 05/12/17 at 14:35:33 Each bike is different. Mine doesn't like any choke. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Andy RN on 05/12/17 at 14:40:29 Great... thanks. On my bike, I usually have to pull it all the way out, otherwise it gets prematurely "sucked" back in while I'm riding. Does that happen to you guys too? |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Tocsik on 05/12/17 at 14:56:15 Yep, mine will get pulled in sometimes if it's only out to the first notch. For the first ride of the morning my bike runs better to leave a little choke on for a few minutes. Amount of time depends on the ambient temps. I generally even give it a little choke for the afternoon ride home from work, too. But just to get it started if it's over 60 degrees or so. Don't generally need any choke if it's in the 80's or higher. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by piedmontbuckeye on 05/12/17 at 16:02:06 Mine requires full out for starting and when really cold (between 30 & 40) I have to leave it there for a minute or so, then push in to 3rd position for another few minutes then push in to 2nd position for about 3 miles and full in when fully warmed up after about 10 miles. When 40 to 50, full out for about 5 secs, then 3rd pos, for another minute then 2nd after 1 mile, and full in after 2 miles. Always need full choke when starting first time, but never after that unless it fully cools down. I do find, however that the "surging" (from being tuned so lean) will mostly go away at 1st choke position so sometimes I run it that way! Just found out today, that I am getting right around 60 MPG. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 16:13:47 Mine starts right up with no choke at 60 plus. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Andy RN on 05/12/17 at 16:52:26 It's interesting to see all the variation between riders. I have always pulled my choke out to it's fullest position, and after 5 years of riding, I never think twice about it... But then I read something like this and it frightens me: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1342319094/7#7 I hope I haven't been damaging my piston. My bike wouldn't start up, that's what prompted me to want to start taking it apart and try learning how to fix it... but reading over the forums is intense. I'm a little concerned that I'm in over my head... I read about guys like Dave fabricating their own tools, and I' feel like I'm way out of my league... I can't even understand half of what I'm reading: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1367169463/17#17 But no fear! Gonna keep at this - even if I never get to the level where I can fix my bike. Worse comes to worse, I will buy another bike if I can't fix this one, and it will be a learning experience. I respect you guys a lot! |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Tocsik on 05/12/17 at 17:42:38 Don't try to fix stuff that isn't broke. Keep it running so you can ride it! |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by eau de sauvage on 05/12/17 at 18:14:45 No choke needed here in QLD from 60F to 100F, idles starts at 950 rises to 1200 engine warms up. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/12/17 at 18:53:30 That's too low of an rpm. High idle should be around 2,000 and warm idle should be 1,400 to 1,500 rpm. Any lower and the oil pressure isn't high enough to provide adequate flow and to the cams. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by ohiomoto on 05/13/17 at 05:27:27 73677275717F1E0 wrote:
Are you saying you ride with the choke out? How long to keep it out? On cold mornings I pull the choke out fully to start the bike. Once started I push it to the 1st position, we'll call that half-choke and start riding. I ride half-choke until the bike warms up enough to hold an idle or until I get to my first long stretch of road where I'll sustain a higher rpm. So I'm on full choke for just a few seconds and half-choke for less than a few minutes. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Dave on 05/13/17 at 05:47:52 It does seem that there is a lot of variance in how each bike requires choke. My 2007 never needed the choke to start, and it always started immediately after a revolution or two. The detent on the choke knob is plastic, and when new it holds the choke firmly in place in any position. As the plastic ages it can lose the ability to hold the Knob in the middle position....then later it can lose the ability to hold it out in any position. If your Knob won't stay in the middle position - it is wearing out. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/17 at 06:48:49 The choke, which, technically Isn't a choke.. And the completely different ways each engine needs it, there just isn't any Rule for how to use it. And IF it's not perfect in its ways, won't Stay, whatever,, it's not a big deal. A clothes pin would probably solve the problem. Just get it to run and warm up and ride. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by batman on 05/13/17 at 16:46:18 5953575D565F5B520C0A0E3E0 wrote:
Gary ,pressure when starting isn't the problem,If the rpm is 950 pressure is OK, the real problem is flow,and there is not enough flow to the bearings and parts due to the oil being cold and thick ,until the oil reaches proper running temperature ,this is why most wear occurs at starting ,not do to a lack of pressure. rev the engine when cold and you increase pressure but actually reduces flow ,a 2000 rpm idle will do the same,it will cause more friction with less lubrication . |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by HAPPYDAN on 05/14/17 at 07:40:12 If no one has diddled with the jets, muffler, or air cleaner, it's just like the others say - temperature dependent. Some days, it stays on 1/2 choke. That big air cooled single is really affected by ambient temperature. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by batman on 05/14/17 at 16:22:28 the choke is for starting, if you have to have the choke on to drive the bike you need to rejet the carb! |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Dave on 05/15/17 at 07:13:28 6063766F636C363A020 wrote:
Gary ,pressure when starting isn't the problem,If the rpm is 950 pressure is OK, the real problem is flow,and there is not enough flow to the bearings and parts due to the oil being cold and thick ,until the oil reaches proper running temperature ,this is why most wear occurs at starting ,not do to a lack of pressure. rev the engine when cold and you increase pressure but actually reduces flow ,a 2000 rpm idle will do the same,it will cause more friction with less lubrication .[/quote] 950 rpm is not OK......even when warm - the forum recommended minimum is 1,000 rpm....1,100 is even better. The oil pump just doesn't provide enough pressure or flow at that rpm to properly lubricate the cam bearing. The Savage engine has a small brass orifice at the top of the engine case on the right side....very near the speedometer drive at the back of the oil passage case into the top of the engine case - and this orifice restricts the oil flow to the upper end during running speeds to prevent too much oil from getting to the top of the engine. At speeds below 1,000 rpm the pressure/flow just isn't high enough to get any of the oil to the top of the engine.....as least not enough to keep the cam bearings lubricated. It is imperative you keep the idle speed up above 1,000 rpm for the cam bearings to survive. One of the reasons that I believe the most wear occurs at start up - is that when you shut the engine down the engine and oil was hot, and the hot, thin oil easily runs/drips off all the internal parts. Then when you start the engine the next time (hours, days, weeks later) - the bearings, piston and cam have a very thin layer of oil to provide the lubrication until the oil pressure/flow can get to the bearings, and also begin to be thrown around inside the crankcase to oil the piston/cylinder. Cold, thick oil can make it take longer for the bearings to get proper oil flow and accelerate the wear during "cold starts"...especially when temperatures drop really low. There are some "pre-lubers" that can be installed to pump oil through the engine prior to starting - most folks never bother with that technology as modern engines can go several hundred thousand miles being being worn out. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by batman on 05/15/17 at 09:17:09 Dave , I didn't mean to say that 950 rpm was OK,and I agree 1000/1100 is proper idle speed, I meant to say that 950 rpm would provide enough pressure at idle ,but there is no oil that will provide proper flow at (cold) startup . If you have a minimal pressure to circulate the oil in the motor (about 10 psi per 1000 rpm ) flow is the most important factor ,higher flow increases the thickness of the oil film between the parts reducing wear and carrying away heat .this is why a 10w40 oil being thinner ,flows better than a 20w50 oil ,and allows the motor to run cooler even in the hottest weather. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/17 at 18:37:06 The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two viscosity grades; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The first number '10W' is the viscosity of the oil at cold temperature and the second number is the viscosity at 100 °C (212 °F). Motor oil - Wikipedia |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by buster6315 on 05/15/17 at 18:48:58 4C777A6D7C706B6D767E736C1F0 wrote:
Gary ,pressure when starting isn't the problem,If the rpm is 950 pressure is OK, the real problem is flow,and there is not enough flow to the bearings and parts due to the oil being cold and thick ,until the oil reaches proper running temperature ,this is why most wear occurs at starting ,not do to a lack of pressure. rev the engine when cold and you increase pressure but actually reduces flow ,a 2000 rpm idle will do the same,it will cause more friction with less lubrication .[/quote] 950 rpm is not OK......even when warm - the forum recommended minimum is 1,000 rpm....1,100 is even better. The oil pump just doesn't provide enough pressure or flow at that rpm to properly lubricate the cam bearing. The Savage engine has a small brass orifice at the top of the engine case on the right side....very near the speedometer drive at the back of the oil passage case into the top of the engine case - and this orifice restricts the oil flow to the upper end during running speeds to prevent too much oil from getting to the top of the engine. At speeds below 1,000 rpm the pressure/flow just isn't high enough to get any of the oil to the top of the engine.....as least not enough to keep the cam bearings lubricated. It is imperative you keep the idle speed up above 1,000 rpm for the cam bearings to survive. One of the reasons that I believe the most wear occurs at start up - is that when you shut the engine down the engine and oil was hot, and the hot, thin oil easily runs/drips off all the internal parts. Then when you start the engine the next time (hours, days, weeks later) - the bearings, piston and cam have a very thin layer of oil to provide the lubrication until the oil pressure/flow can get to the bearings, and also begin to be thrown around inside the crankcase to oil the piston/cylinder. Cold, thick oil can make it take longer for the bearings to get proper oil flow and accelerate the wear during "cold starts"...especially when temperatures drop really low. There are some "pre-lubers" that can be installed to pump oil through the engine prior to starting - most folks never bother with that technology as modern engines can go several hundred thousand miles being being worn out. [/quote] I recall some years ago, a major engine oil manufacturer screwed-up their formula, as a result engines were destroyed because there was no oil film left on critical parts after shut off. |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by buster6315 on 05/15/17 at 18:57:41 4F5056514C4B7A4A7A42505C17250 wrote:
'The choke isn't a choke' a motorcycle enthusiast told my brother that the choke was kind of like another carb built into the carb. :) |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by Andy RN on 05/18/17 at 00:40:44 2126272123213A214E0 wrote:
I confess, that for years I HAVE ridden with the choke out full for several minutes... because when it was in first position, it would get "sucked" back in (that's what I recall). Currently, I'm riding my girlfriend's Savage - mine has been inoperable and sitting for about 8 months, and I'm just getting around to having the time to learn how to fix it. Her's doesn't have the "suck in" problem (let the dirty jokes fly). When I get my bike back up and running *fingers crossed*, I will have to see if the choke is still behaiving that way. Thanks for the other info about the plastic part being worn and not hoding out the choke, and the other good information! |
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Title: Re: More than one position on the Choke? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/17 at 07:29:15 I know I've met people who I wanted to choke from more than one position. |
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