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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Peace o mind........ /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1494345368 Message started by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 08:56:07 |
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Title: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 08:56:07 I get the idea about thinking to restrict travel is vetting terrorist. I get that sanctuary cities protect law breakers.... However, what are we really willing to do about it without trampling our own freedom? Let's face the facts, the old white couple with 2 and a 1/2 kid, dog, cat, and picket fence is no long applicable to the face of America. Is anybody who does NOT fit the previous mentioned discription now suspect and fair game? I remember listening to talk after 911..... I distinctly remember that I thought the terrorist had scored a major victory far beyond the broken bodies, shattered glass, and twisted steel. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by verslagen1 on 05/09/17 at 09:28:02 Before I went to china, I needed a visa. Not so with spain or UK. So why can't we demand visa's from the 7? Many cities have decided to be sanctuaries to illegal aliens. To the point where a convicted criminal (who's an alien) is let go, they do so w/out informing ICE to pick him up. So instead, they pick up every available IE who's available, even if they walk into their arms for a visa. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/17 at 09:35:38 584B534E4B5D4D2A0 wrote:
In a way - the terrorists have won the battle (but not the war). The country has been living with an irrational fear since 9/11. The MSM - and that includes fox - have been playing on that 24/7. Fear sells ads. Fear speaks to everyone. There's an episode of Family Guy where Lois runs for mayor and she wins just by saying "9/11" over and over. It's funny, but sadly very true. We've been living in fear of terrorists now for 16 years. 16 YEARS!! Enough is enough already! How many coordinated terror attacks in the U.S. since 2001? ZERO. Now you can say that they were inspired by isis or whomever. But there have been none perpetrated to the likes of 9/11 in that time. Not a coordinated effort. (I'm sure that will be a point of contention no doubt). But as time goes by and the general population learns more about what is actually happening and how the terrorists are not winning the war, we'll be in a better place. That's not to say that we let our guard down, but we can't continue to live in fear 24/7. "Let's face the facts, the old white couple with 2 and a 1/2 kid, dog, cat, and picket fence is no long applicable to the face of America." Good! By our very nature, we shouldn't be. America was established as a melting pot. Not white, not black, not brown, etc., but everyone. You can still have the "white couple with 2 and 1/2 kids...", but their neighbor probably won't fit that. What a concept! |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Serowbot on 05/09/17 at 09:48:22 332D22232E332835470 wrote:
An interesting thing to consider here is, how many wannabe terrorists would be inspired by ISIS if we didn't have this exaggerated fear?... The fear we display gives them their power... After all,.. the point of terrorism is not create casualties.. it is to make us afraid... Casualties are the method not the goal... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by WebsterMark on 05/09/17 at 10:24:27 667562637C7177757E21100 wrote:
Because we are cursed with liberals. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 10:29:05 392F38253D28253E4A0 wrote:
An interesting thing to consider here is, how many wannabe terrorists would be inspired by ISIS if we didn't have this exaggerated fear?... The fear we display gives them their power... After all,.. the point of terrorism is not create casualties.. it is to make us afraid... Casualties are the method not the goal... [/quote] I agree with that..... A real 30 seconds of fame mentality, with consequences. I think we need to glance at a bigger picture, one that exsisted before 911. This sheep, or lemming mentality, has been captilized upon by marketing institutions. They have infiltrated society at all levels, race, and class. From religious organizations, academia, social and political dogma, where you either follow, or suffer the consequences. Once this manipulation is manifested, it is a easily accessed avenue to propagandize and utilize, for practically any cause or reason. Again, how can free speech, be free? Is anything free, or is there a cost to just about everything? Can I hold myself, willingly, to the same conditions I hold for others? Or do I extend myself the hidden agenda of the end justifies the means, to circumvent open and honest exchange? It seems a BIG lie has sprouted, with many roots and branches, and we only look at how others have been played.... Well it seems these terrorist have found the fertilizer, and have applied it rather well.... I have spent years, much sweat and muscle, trying to rid my property of wild blackberries. All sorts of remedies exsist. Results very. The only true one is primitive in nature.... You must pull and eradicate the root, and all of its shoots.. I am afraid that means, you and I gang. We have been tainted and compromised by all the lies we've been told, and those that we told, by passing them on, for we know in our heart, it's wrong, but others are MORE, wrong. America is arrogant in this manner, it is the language of commerce... We extend that to mean "the truth". We are a diseased tree, who's fruit carries this characteristic to any who consumes it, I'm afraid. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by verslagen1 on 05/09/17 at 10:30:14 a list of terror attacks for the uninformed... http://www.dailywire.com/news/11410/complete-list-radical-islamic-terror-attacks-us-james-barrett# |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/17 at 10:46:08 3A293E3F202D2B29227D4C0 wrote:
COORDINATED TERROR ATTACKS - None of those were to the coordination of 9/11. They're not much more than wannabes. Nice try - see, I told ya there'd be contention. But yeah - continue to propagate fear... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by WebsterMark on 05/09/17 at 11:13:31 Whether the scumbag Islamic terrorist followed orders he took from a phone call instructing him to attack or not, the people they killed are just as dead. This prerequisite of coordination with a far off terrorist commander in a sand bagged bunker somewhere is just another example of your belief (at best naiveté, at worse traitorous) that these attacks are no big deal; a manufactured crisis by bigoted, racist, white Americans bitterly clinging to their guns and religion. Any insult, real or perceived, against anyone other than a white American male, is the fault of conservative talk radio, Republicans, and now Donald Trump. Yet a man can shoot or stab people after yelling Allah Akbar and your response is this is 'isolated', a lone wolf not connected in any manner with the 'troubles' overseas. And now, it's all our fault apparently. If we'd just be nicer, those poor souls wouldn't be forced into blowing us to pieces or their new favorite, running people over with trucks. If we'd open our arms to them and show them we're 'not afraid', they'd plant f'ing flowers in our front yards. Holy $hit I'm glad this generation of snowflakes weren't alive in WWII..... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/09/17 at 11:27:07 586A6D7C7B6A7D426E7D640F0 wrote:
Yeah, WWII - the good old days of locking up Asians, "black only" drinking fountains, and 70% tax on the highest incomes, right? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 11:28:08 WW2...... Internment camps, good times ;) You can compare the two, not really apples to apples, and that is what the gist of my rant is about. Look Web, I bet you can readily see this same mind-think is acceptable behavior by the leftist, when attacking Trump. Is all supposition and guess, but driven with fear as the outcome.... To organize and solidify the troops, to do the bidding of the party warlords. Very little of it has to do with finding solutions, no, only extending and assuring the kings wealth and power.... The left will scream and deny. The right will scream and deny. Both deflect and say the other is evil. The wheels on the bus go round and round. Fear, dealt from the bottom of the deck in a dark room, don't leave home without it ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by WebsterMark on 05/09/17 at 11:41:50 Dawg; you act like fear is a bad thing? Isn't it a warning; a feature of survival? I'll give you a few streets to walk down in St. Louis late at night and you let me know if fear guides you back into your car and out of there or you could ignore it and keep on walking......for a while. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 12:47:03 5D6F68797E6F78476B78610A0 wrote:
No, fear driven out of fear is not rational thought. Fear in understanding the possible consequences is rational forethought. Context being paramount to distinguish between them. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Serowbot on 05/09/17 at 12:56:39 There are rational fears and irrational fears... The odds of being victim of a terrorist attack are longer than the odds of being struck by lightening during a bank robbery... :P |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by verslagen1 on 05/09/17 at 13:13:13 7660776A72676A71050 wrote:
Since there are a lot of lightening storms, and a lot of bank robberies the odds are pretty low. Or did you mean struck by lightening while witnessing a bank robbery? That might be quite high if you excluded FL. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by WebsterMark on 05/09/17 at 14:13:54 5244534E56434E55210 wrote:
Okay fine, then explain why you are basically demanding an increase in the number of bank robberies at banks opened only during thunderstorms where we hand cooper rods out to customers in the parking lot ...... because that's what you're doing. You are taking a known risk and purposely increasing it's probability for no reason other than to make you feel better about yourself. Because on one hand, you're right. You or I will probably never be directly impacted by a terror attack. So what do you care? A dozen kids at Ohio State were run into by a car and then a guy jumped out slashing them with a knife, but it wasn't you or anyone you knew? A guy runs down customers in a Minnesota mall with a knife, but again, you weren't there. So, go ahead and let these people into our country...... because why, his country is a $hithole? Okay, so it's a $hithole, but why ruin ours? Why don't we go over there and clean that $hithole up? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/09/17 at 14:17:43 Web, just ask Bot why they push fear and guns, etc. They use fear when they can, that is my whole point. Sure, no guns, no crime, no worries...... Spoon fed bullchit, yum ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/17 at 19:14:35 The ODDS of being assaulted, raped or murdered in Germany and other countries USED TO BE A LOT LOWER. Let's do what THEY did! The fact that the argument is one side arguing for sanity while the lefties argue for death and destruction is telling. Lefties are not okay..liberalism is a mental illness. It's been said, but I didn't agree.. until recently. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Serowbot on 05/10/17 at 07:29:39 The point is,.. and the difference (guns) is,... by fearing terrorists, you are playing into their hands... That is the intention. You fear.. they win... All the security, altering our immigration policies, strip searches at airports,... ... all wins for them... They have power over you. .. and they will continue,.. because it works... You're buying your kid candy to shut him up... He's just going to keep throwing tantrums, for the reward. There are sensible measures that we need to take... but we shouldn't let it alter our values and principals. Religious based discrimination is unconstitutional. We don't do that. Remember the Constitution?... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/10/17 at 08:16:34 7B6D7A677F6A677C080 wrote:
I agree with that, but my references was to using fear, as motivation, or a driver, to get what you want. The political arena is ripe with deploying it as a tool. I have to surrender my guns so others will feel safe, uh, remember the constitution ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/17 at 08:39:05 I'm not held hostage by terrorism. My government has decided that I would be. Hmmmboyyy, that legislation and those bodyscanners were just waiting to be rolled out. Am I alone? Doesn't anyone know how the Netherlands dealt with the mass shooting? Yeah, one BAD one. Gosh, lets solve every problem by reducing rights and freedoms, because it's for our own good. Because being alive means we should always be safe. Let's import rapacious murderous psychopaths to randomly do what they do, but pretend we are smart because we've given ourselves over to be groped and or irradiated in order to gain access to the services of a company that hauls people. It's frikking Insane. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/10/17 at 09:32:41 6670677A62777A61150 wrote:
SO, ‘Rational’ fear, is of fire, so you have a smoke alarm, and fire extinguisher. Or Drive a MC in condition Yellow, or have a solid footing on a ladder, etc, etc, etc. Yet a, ‘Un-Rational’, Fear, is having a way to protect yourself, from someone who’s goal, it to KILL YOU ! “ … but we shouldn’t let it alter our values and principals. Religious based discrimination is unconstitutional. We don’t do that. Remember the Constitution?…” Sounds like, ‘Propaganda’, Because a little fact, the, “Constitution”, does, NOT, protect, a NON Citizen, or a IL-LEAGAL Alien. Especially one who Lies/Sneaks into the Country, with the Sole Purpose to, KILL YOU !!!!!!! (What do, 'Other Civilized Nations', do, to someone who, 'sneaks', into their Country ?????) LOLOLOLOL, We are, 'suppose', to have, "Socialized Heath Care", BECAUSE, "Other Civilized Nations", DO ???? Yet, when other, "Other Civilized Nations" say: "Get out unless you are a Citizen", it is, WRONG ?????? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/17 at 12:14:20 OLOLOL, We are, 'suppose', to have, "Socialized Heath Care", BECAUSE, "Other Civilized Nations", DO ???? Yet, when other, "Other Civilized Nations" say: "Get out unless you are a Citizen", it is, WRONG ??? Ouch... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by pg on 05/10/17 at 15:12:49 786E79647C69647F0B0 wrote:
Unless it is directed towards Christians..... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/10/17 at 15:33:01 4255535F5040320 wrote:
Unless it is directed towards Christians..... Best regards, [/quote] Yeah, the poor Christians have had it SOOOOO rough, huh? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/17 at 17:12:28 The only religious group being minimized by the rest of society. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/10/17 at 18:15:07 3A242B2A273A213C4E0 wrote:
Unless it is directed towards Christians..... Best regards, [/quote] Yeah, the poor Christians have had it SOOOOO rough, huh? [/quote] You might want to do some research before you expose your bias and intolerance, we would really hate to label you with a deserving name.... https://www.quora.com/Which-religion-is-most-persecuted |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by WebsterMark on 05/10/17 at 19:15:15 but we shouldn't let it alter our values and principals Tell me exactly what values and principals we are altering by refusing to admit a known hazard into our communities? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Trippah on 05/10/17 at 20:21:47 To refuse admission to this country simply because someone is a Muslim is 1)unconstitutional and 2)stupid. How many of our present scientists and medical people Muslim, quite a few I'd guess. How many people died in 9/11, just under 3 thousand I believe. How many other attacks by Muslims in this country, 6-8 maybe. How many people killed by drunk distracted drivers or accidents 30K a year. How many killed by the police- another 30K I think someone posted not long ago. So, 3200 maybe total killed in the US by Muslim terrorists. Around 600,00 in the same time span by cars and police. Wow, it may well happen but in truth, I worry more about cars and police, and I am not even black. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/17 at 20:33:48 You Do understand that OUR Constitution is not FOR the rest of the world. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by thumperclone on 05/11/17 at 00:17:50 352A2C2B3631003000382A266D5F0 wrote:
whaa? Germany is a social democracy read LEFTIES |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/11/17 at 00:37:06 And? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/11/17 at 03:57:04 36292F2835320333033B29256E5C0 wrote:
Not sure what you mean..... If it assures ALL who walk within its boundaries the same "ideas" to pursuit of happiness, as I believe, then I think I am bound by representing its principals no matter where I am. Yes, there is a difference of citizenship and alien, but only on a technical level, humanity should be our default position. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by verslagen1 on 05/11/17 at 08:42:50 most constitutional rights are extended to aliens. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/11/17 at 08:51:30 56455D40455343240 wrote:
Unless it is directed towards Christians..... Best regards, [/quote] Yeah, the poor Christians have had it SOOOOO rough, huh? [/quote] You might want to do some research before you expose your bias and intolerance, we would really hate to label you with a deserving name.... https://www.quora.com/Which-religion-is-most-persecuted[/quote] Good job trying to sell fear - but in that same article it states -"Persecution rarely occurs in the US or most of the developed world, we only have to endure the occasional insult. " So yeah... poor, poor Christians... LMAO!!! |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/11/17 at 09:11:39 756B646568756E73010 wrote:
Unless it is directed towards Christians..... Best regards, [/quote] Yeah, the poor Christians have had it SOOOOO rough, huh? [/quote] You might want to do some research before you expose your bias and intolerance, we would really hate to label you with a deserving name.... https://www.quora.com/Which-religion-is-most-persecuted[/quote] Good job trying to sell fear - but in that same article it states -"Persecution rarely occurs in the US or most of the developed world, we only have to endure the occasional insult. " So yeah... poor, poor Christians... LMAO!!! [/quote] Oh, so say if I stone a queer to death in another country it's cool huh? Man, I just don't get your selective outrage.... |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/11/17 at 09:35:32 23302835302636510 wrote:
Yeah, because that's the SAME THING, RIGHT?? <<< sarcasm C'mon - I'm not saying there are not atrocities, but the likes of you that pedal fear are doing no good. It's simply NOT happening in this country - but from your claim, all Christians EVERYWHERE are in danger. That is a falsehood. Why not say that "In some countries, Christians are persecuted for their beliefs - perhaps US Christians should focus on that instead of the fake 'war on Christmas' and the like" - ? The likes of the bill oreilly's of the world are the only ones that are threatened, not the Christians in the US. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/11/17 at 14:07:10 Okay, bring them. BUT, all you sanctimonious know it all take Responsibility For Their Actions. Lefties can buy bonds, and sign for them. Hope you vetted yours. As perpetually wrong as lefties are, why not just shaddup and let sanity drive? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/11/17 at 14:24:23 283731362B2C1D2D1D25373B70420 wrote:
We are - we have been. It's the lunatic right that's been screaming, not the left. They're the ones wanting to close the borders. I welcome those that want to come here for a better life and live the American dream. I just hope the lunatic right doesn't scare them away. That would be a shame seeing as how many Muslim doctors, scientists, entrepreneurs there are in the US. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/11/17 at 15:45:11 I welcome those that want to come here for a better life and live the American dream. That's sure working out in Europe. Why will OUR refugees be better? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/11/17 at 20:29:08 435C5A5D40477646764E5C501B290 wrote:
Key word - AMERICAN dream. I still think our nation is better. We make them better. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/11/17 at 21:27:00 Yeah, no arrogance there. You can hope, but what if you're Wrong? Maybe you have not considered the difference between migrants and refugees. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 08:59:13 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
Refugees have been coming here for as long as anyone and, well, it's worked for over 250 years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't our Constitution one of (if not) the oldest ones on the Planet? It stands on it's own as a masterpiece to this day. We should be arrogant. I'm proud of my Country. Arrogance of pride is well placed when supporting your country. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/17 at 09:42:38 That you don't see what they are doing in Europe and believe that they are going to assimilate is incomprehensible to me. You're PROUD of the foreign policy of America? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by pg on 05/12/17 at 10:23:52 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Perhaps this will help; although, I doubt it. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/map-they-dont-want-you-see-nations-most-refugees-have-most-terror-attacks The nations that have become the hottest destinations for refugees, are also the nations with the most terrorist attacks. France, Germany, Sweden, and the UK are brimming with terror incidents. Meanwhile, countries that didn’t take in so many refugees, like Poland, Slovakia, and the Baltic states, have very few terrorist attacks or none at all. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 10:34:00 5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:
Yes - up until the end of the 1st Bush administration. It got a little better (emphasize little) under Obama. As it is right now, we're a joke thanks to tweety. I'm rooting that we'll get better after this clown (and his menagerie) is gone. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 10:35:23 4C5B5D515E4E3C0 wrote:
Perhaps this will help; although, I doubt it. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/map-they-dont-want-you-see-nations-most-refugees-have-most-terror-attacks The nations that have become the hottest destinations for refugees, are also the nations with the most terrorist attacks. France, Germany, Sweden, and the UK are brimming with terror incidents. Meanwhile, countries that didn’t take in so many refugees, like Poland, Slovakia, and the Baltic states, have very few terrorist attacks or none at all. Best regards,[/quote] So sad that you have so little faith in America. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by pg on 05/12/17 at 11:37:58 233D32333E233825570 wrote:
So sad that you have so little faith in America.[/quote] How does that have any association whatsoever to my belief in America? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 12:28:43 475956575A475C41330 wrote:
Perhaps this will help; although, I doubt it. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-11/map-they-dont-want-you-see-nations-most-refugees-have-most-terror-attacks The nations that have become the hottest destinations for refugees, are also the nations with the most terrorist attacks. France, Germany, Sweden, and the UK are brimming with terror incidents. Meanwhile, countries that didn’t take in so many refugees, like Poland, Slovakia, and the Baltic states, have very few terrorist attacks or none at all. Best regards,[/quote] So sad that you have so little faith in America.[/quote] Wow I'm sorry I was going to stay out of this on the forum but that is just a cop out. I've fought and bled for this country, I've had a Muslim kid save my life by by screaming my name just before I kicked in a door that had an IED in it that would have killed me. I patrolled the city of Now Zad and became friends with the kid (as best we could with the language barrier) and always bought things from his stand in the bazaar. On top of that I have friends who are Muslim here in this country. As much as I would love for Azizula to have a chance to be a refugee if it meant that 1 person that came with him would do harm to anyone in this country I wouldn't allow it. Sure there are good Muslims, hell there are are good and bad people in any religion, but allowing people.to flood from somewhere that has a high number of terrorists and a joke of a vetting system regardless of religion is a horrible idea. Would you take an order of 100 motorcycles knowing that 1 had the potential to explode due to lack of quality control and safety checks, I sincerely hope not. I would order from somewhere that had excellent quality control and safety checks that do everything possible to prevent catastrophic failure. Just my 2 cents take it or leave it. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 13:09:40 647375797666140 wrote:
So sad that you have so little faith in America.[/quote] How does that have any association whatsoever to my belief in America? Best regards,[/quote] You equate the US with other nations' standards. The fact is - the US has a much more robust vetting procedure. You have no faith in our vetting? Do you think we're that careless? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 13:18:09 584649484558435E2C0 wrote:
So sad that you have so little faith in America.[/quote] How does that have any association whatsoever to my belief in America? Best regards,[/quote] You equate the US with other nations' standards. The fact is - the US has a much more robust vetting procedure. You have no faith in our vetting? Do you think we're that careless?[/quote] Yes I agree it is much more robust for people who legally apply for citizenship, refugees are taken on their word during questioning not to mention it's not intense or robust as you so put it. So to answer your question yes it would be careless for the US to accept so many refugees from a part of the world saturated with terrorists and extremists. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 13:24:55 33071604040A125958610 wrote:
First off - I assume that from your name, you're a Marine. If so, thank you for your service! My son is a Marine, my brother is a Marine, my best friend is a Marine and my Father-in-Law was a Marine (passed away). However - I feel you are in error when you said - "but allowing people.to flood from somewhere that has a high number of terrorists and a joke of a vetting system regardless of religion" How is our 18 to 24 month vetting process a joke? We have the toughest guidelines out there. There are no "open borders" and refugees aren't "pouring in" - that's a flat out lie that the likes of fox news propagate. I'm surprised that a Marine (who sounds like he saw action in the ME) has no faith in our vetting process. You are the reason we have freedom of religion, yet you specifically mention that as a problem. I'm sorry you feel that way. For the record, you may want to look at these links that show the relationship between refugees and crime: https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says http://www.newamericaneconomy.org/research/is-there-a-link-between-refugees-and-u-s-crime-rates/ |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 14:01:19 6B757A7B766B706D1F0 wrote:
First off - I assume that from your name, you're a Marine. If so, thank you for your service! My son is a Marine, my brother is a Marine, my best friend is a Marine and my Father-in-Law was a Marine (passed away). However - I feel you are in error when you said - "but allowing people.to flood from somewhere that has a high number of terrorists and a joke of a vetting system regardless of religion" How is our 18 to 24 month vetting process a joke? We have the toughest guidelines out there. There are no "open borders" and refugees aren't "pouring in" - that's a flat out lie that the likes of fox news propagate. I'm surprised that a Marine (who sounds like he saw action in the ME) has no faith in our vetting process. You are the reason we have freedom of religion, yet you specifically mention that as a problem. I'm sorry you feel that way. For the record, you may want to look at these links that show the relationship between refugees and crime: https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says http://www.newamericaneconomy.org/research/is-there-a-link-between-refugees-and-u-s-crime-rates/ [/quote] First of all Semper Fi to all of your family and friends that are Marines. I have no problem with freedom of religion (I personally don't believe in religion I think it's all a sham) but to each his own. What I have a problem with is extremists regardless of religion but unfortunately Muslim extremists are against the American way of life and are actively fighting against it, not necessarily in our country but around the world as well with anyone trying to live free and how they want. Again I know most refugees will be law abiding and productive members of our society and don't deny it. The problem with the vetting system is not every individual is vetted for that long, we just don't have the manpower to individually vet 10,000 refugees let alone 100,000 for that amount of time. A lot of that time is spent with there application if you will sitting in a pile waiting for the country of origin to provide any and all information on said individual. There in lies the problem, as a lot of the "paperwork" that can be brought up by our gov't about me and you is 1000 times better then what can be provided by their origin country if any is available. So at that point you would need people in those countries going door to door for character witnesses and personal interviews and hoping the people they would be asking are credible sources of information then going over all those notes looking for discrepancies. I hate to break it to you but we do not have the resources available in order to do that and certainly not enough man power in those other countries to do so properly. Sure we are leaps and bounds above other countries but being better than a pile of turds isn't saying much. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by pg on 05/12/17 at 14:02:53 263837363B263D20520 wrote:
The fact of the matter is we have little to no vetting procedure if millions of people have walked across our southern border. Incidentally, I lived on the border for 4 years. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 14:32:15 3B2C2A2629394B0 wrote:
The fact of the matter is we have little to no vetting procedure if millions of people have walked across our southern border. Incidentally, I lived on the border for 4 years. Best regards,[/quote] Illegals are not refugees - lol, by their very nature, they are not vetted - duh.... Try to stay on topic. This is about vetting refugees. And the (true) fact of the matter is that we DO have stringent vetting for the US. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 14:41:08 7B4F5E4C4C425A1110290 wrote:
Thanks - and I hope I can speak for my son and say OORAH! You do have a valid point to some degree. But I would add that if we were to suddenly stop allowing refugees, that could send the wrong message to those seeking refuge and give the extremists ammunition in their anti-American rhetoric. There's no easy, one-size-fits-all solution. But IMHO, I think if we shut them out, we might make things worse from a statesmanship standpoint. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/17 at 14:46:30 How do we Vet anyone? Ask them questions? Check their birth certificates? Their grades? Who do we ask? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/12/17 at 14:54:10 5D4244435E5968586850424E05370 wrote:
https://www.state.gov/j/prm/ra/admissions/ http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/refugee-resettlement-security-screening-information |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 14:58:28 2B353A3B362B302D5F0 wrote:
Thanks - and I hope I can speak for my son and say OORAH! You do have a valid point to some degree. But I would add that if we were to suddenly stop allowing refugees, that could send the wrong message to those seeking refuge and give the extremists ammunition in their anti-American rhetoric. There's no easy, one-size-fits-all solution. But IMHO, I think if we shut them out, we might make things worse from a statesmanship standpoint.[/quote] There lies our difference of opinion that I will not deny. I could care less what anti-American rhetoric is spread because that's what it is, just rhetoric. Sure I feel bad for people in those situations needing refuge but without trying to sound to heartless but, thems the breaks. They were born into an unfortunate situation but we can't help.them all. We have 10,000 homeless vets in this country I'd rather see them given homes, fed, and clothed. We've got enough hungry and poor in our own country that need help who were born into unfortunate situations. Fix our problems first then if we can help who we can. If you lose a leg and your buddy loses a leg you would tourniquet your leg before going to help him, and that's the way it should work. I agree there is no one size fits all solution but let's make sure our country gets the proper size first. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/17 at 15:29:31 We have 10,000 homeless vets in this country I'd rather see them given homes, fed, and clothed. We've got enough hungry and poor in our own country that need help who were born into unfortunate situations. Fix our problems first then if we can help who we can. If you lose a leg and your buddy loses a leg you would tourniquet your leg before going to help him, and that's the way it should work. I agree there is no one size fits all solution but let's make sure our country gets the proper size first. Yep, the guy down the road who can't properly feed and clothe his family probably shouldn't be adopting. But, common sense doesn't counter the beliefs of some. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Serowbot on 05/12/17 at 15:42:57 Thing is,... it isn't a choice of A or B... this or that... The billionaire interests that sent our guys over there, and the problems that has created for vets and civilians are our responsibility... We should help both. Big money interests profited from it, and they should give some back to take care of those they hurt. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by Jarhead-CO on 05/12/17 at 15:54:04 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, kinda hard to follow. All I'm saying is let's take care of our own first, vets and civilians, but if your saying you want money poured into another country or citizens of other countries then no I can't get behind that. Even if we are part of the reason those countries are suffering we do enough around the world helping with natural disasters and man made disasters (oil spills). Now if those countries want to pay us to secure a city then by all means send the boys and sweep street to street house to house. If your good at something don't doit for free. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/12/17 at 16:25:19 Let's see, if I got this right. Bring in Millions of Refugees, who 15 +/-% want to KILL US. And GIVE THEM EVERYTHING FOR FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!! And the 40,000 VETS, living under bridges, (Who Fought, and MANY Died, to protect THIS, Nation) to hell with them, ????? :o :-? :-[ :-/ Good to know, how a Lefty, Progressive, Ultra-Liberal, thinks. Guess, if that person, 'Actually', Believes, the current, 'Vetting' process for Refugees, actually, works. Than that person ALSO believes their are 57 States in the USA, (After all, his, 'savior', the 'Wanna Be King", Said so ! |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by pg on 05/12/17 at 17:02:42 382629282538233E4C0 wrote:
The fact of the matter is we have little to no vetting procedure if millions of people have walked across our southern border. Incidentally, I lived on the border for 4 years. Best regards,[/quote] Illegals are not refugees - lol, by their very nature, they are not vetted - duh.... Try to stay on topic. This is about vetting refugees. And the (true) fact of the matter is that we DO have stringent vetting for the US. [/quote] They are one in the same to me. We have 95 million people who are not in the labor force, scores of homeless, we are broke, our infrastructure is rotting, and our inner cities are decaying. We do not have the means to take care of our own citizens, let alone any additional liabilities. Yes, it is my belief that a very significant portion of those refugees are just searching for a better life. And many of those have no intention of assimilating to western cultural values. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/12/17 at 17:03:49 I am ABSOLUTELY clueless to Syria, etc, other than I know this problem has passed through different administrations, and it seems beyond our control, whatever that may be :-[ But I want to address intellectual honesty in arguing a point. Trump wants vetting to extend restricting of immigration from some certain "hot spots" We see TT basic argument is he thinks the resources already exists, etc, and tosses it back, saying you don't trust our goverment to be able to ascertain who is safe, and who is not.... And folk should not concerned, right? OK, I remember an issue, that the left still won't give an inch on, and I must ask why..... Is it because they don't trust the goverment to adhere to the law? The issue was partial birth abortion. Exhaustive studies showed clear evidence that these abortions were extremely rare, in cases were a pregnant woman had the need for it. The facts showed it was for late term convenience, and not a threat to the woman's health. Basically the final argument was, by the pro abortion folk, if they allowed restrictions on ANY type of abortion, they would soon outlaw ALL abortions.... So,do they not trust our goverment to uphold the law of the land? Sorry, wasn't trying to jack the thread, just hoping to elevate the exchange of POV's and beliefs, to a civilized manner, above the hyperbole, so maybe we can find common grounds, or in the least, appreciate the mental exercise, instead of racing to the lowest common denominator. OK, back in my hole I go ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/12/17 at 17:25:50 The Constitution of the USA, does, NOT, ‘Protect’, a Non Citizen. In the past, the USA, Has, extended the umbrella, of, ‘Rights’, to some Asylum Seekers, (Didn’t have to, but did) Until the Asylum, seekers were granted, Refugee Status, they were, ‘Helped’. NOT, ‘Protected’, under this Nations Constitution, Because they were not, (or yet) Citizens. But, “Helped” ! Talk about, ‘Protection’. (These examples are all, ‘Citizens’) (And the, ‘unless’s’, a refugee) If one, stood in the Street, and had 100 EYE Witnesses, and shot someone DEAD. They are, “NOT GUILTY”, until proven, Guilty, in a Court of Law. YET !!!!!! The Fishing Limit is 20 fish, you have 21 Fish. You are “GUILTY”, until YOU Prove, your innocence in a Court. (Unless you are Mong, Somali, Muslim, then you get a FREE Pass) If you owe the I.R.S., $1.00 More, than you put on your Taxes, (Unless you are Mong, Somali, Muslim, then you get a FREE Pass) You are “GUILTY”, until YOU Prove, your innocence in a Court. If you don’t dot the ‘I’, or cross the, ’T’, on a 4473 form, (B.A.T.F.E. Firearms purchase) You are “GUILTY”, until YOU Prove, your innocence in a Court. Yet, because a, male ‘refugee’, (NOT A CITIZEN), sees a female, in a scanty bikini, they, have the, ‘right’, to Rape her, “Because it is not normal for them to see that’ ??????????? No, ‘Refugees’, do NOT, have the ‘rights’ of a Citizen of THIS Nation (Until they BECOME, a Citizen) Only the Ultra-Left, Snowflakes, ‘Kum-By-You’ singers, and Fairy Dust Sprinklers, think they should. And yes, for the, ‘Underwear in a Bunch Crowd’, Their ARE, ‘bad’, Citizens, that do bad things. And when that happens, the ‘RIGHTS’, of the REST, of the Citizens, are protected. Well, until the: “ Ultra-Left, Snowflakes, ‘Kum-By-You’ singers, and Fairy Dust Sprinklers,”, get in the way. Because it is a, ‘Refugee’ !!!!!!!!! Because, Now, “It is NOT Their Fault”. And they do Not, have to behave as a, ‘Citizen’, of the USA would. BECAUSE, (now), ’They are Not Citizens’? YET, the: “ Ultra-Left, Snowflakes, ‘Kum-By-You’ singers, and Fairy Dust Sprinklers”, Want, Demand, CRY, to Give them MORE, Than Citizens ????????? Especially the ones living under Bridges? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/12/17 at 17:36:17 5F7C4162607B7C75120 wrote:
Hey buddy...... Why do I get this picture of you YELLING at your computer as your type out these replies ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/12/17 at 17:47:20 Not really, I type them out on a W.P., then cut and paste, then add the highlights. Perhaps, all, 'this', style of type. (Would take less time) |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/12/17 at 18:35:48 4665587B7962656C0B0 wrote:
Just pulling on your bobber ;D prolly has more to do with me than you ;) |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/12/17 at 18:53:01 54475F42475141260 wrote:
LOLOLOOLOL As, for MANY Years, Starting with a Caine Pole, Fishing, The term, (Often Repeated) was: ‘Watch Your Own Bobber” Now the term: ‘Watch your OWN Bobber” Is often, repeated, by a couple, of, ‘Grumpy Old Men’ when fishing together. (In Jest) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/12/17 at 19:14:34 13300D2E2C3730395E0 wrote:
LOLOLOOLOL As, for MANY Years, Starting with a Caine Pole, Fishing, The term, (Often Repeated) was: ‘Watch Your Own Bobber” Now the term: ‘Watch your OWN Bobber” Is often, repeated, by a couple, of, ‘Grumpy Old Men’ when fishing together. (In Jest) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Well this old grump can honestly say, when I watch your bobber, it gives me perspective, about mine..... Sad to say, but as old men, we have a pretty good handle on the meaning of inevitable.....nothing new to learn about human nature, just sit back and watch it unfold. You can still enjoy the surrounding and company, but thinking you can control the outcome honestly, well, now we've nodded off and are dreaming..... HEY.....WAKE UP!!! Watch your bobber! ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/17 at 18:40:26 Today, I have a very low probability of being bitten by a snake in my house. I would expect that to continue to be the case unless I do something STUPID, like ADOPT SNAKES in my house. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by T And T Garage on 05/15/17 at 19:12:32 5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:
Wow! Great analogy! Everyone knows that refugees are exactly like snakes!! |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/16/17 at 18:09:51 Let’s see, you have NO Snakes in your house. BUT, you,’ adopt’, a bunch, and put them in your basement. Not knowing which ’snakes’, can KILL you, or just wrap around your leg. You are totally comfortable, with going down stairs, to change the furnace filter. (In your Bare FEET) (Or is that a, ‘you should do, but I don’t have to’, thing) As in, parroting, what someone else, “TOLD You TO SAY” ? |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by raydawg on 05/16/17 at 18:33:11 Here is the best anology.... You act accordingly to your beliefs, which promises 27 virgins if you sacrifice your life to the cause.... However, one of the forty has AIDS, and a whole host of other VD with her prize. Is it worth it? One outta forty, you game? ;D |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by MnSpring on 05/16/17 at 18:45:23 Interesting Analogy. Yet, ’some’, may troll, (er Argue), They are already DEAD, as; ‘sacrifice your life’. So, ‘What Does It Matter” LOLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by verslagen1 on 05/17/17 at 07:30:21 7A596447455E5950370 wrote:
Naw... they're the "Not in my backyard/fine in yours" type. |
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Title: Re: Peace o mind........ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/17 at 17:35:03 Hmm, non lefties understood.. |
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