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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Electrical Smoke /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1493666359 Message started by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 12:19:19 |
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Title: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 12:19:19 Hello All, This fall my bike was running just fine. I wanted to repaint as some of the paint had gotten road chipped. That went fine. Paint turned out well. While I was pulling stuff apart I figured I would retorque my head bolts. One of the guys who was giving me a hand got a little over zealous and pulled the pin out of the decompression solenoid. I put it back in without a lot of trouble. Is there something that I may have missed doing that? When I got it all back together, the battery was low and wouldn't turn it over. I figured that wasn't too bad, I had taken it off the charger a couple months ago so no big deal. I hooked it up to a trickle charger over the weekend and thought that would be the end of it. When I checked this morning, everything looked good. Readings on the battery were where they should be. I tried to fire it up and it would crank but didn't want to catch. I tried a few more times and just as I was going to stop trying it started to crank on its own. I was not touching the start button. Then smoke started coming from under the seat. I disconnected the battery and took the seat off. The positive going from the battery to the starter solenoid has melted all of the insulation off. Any thoughts? -Eric |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/17 at 12:44:13 534651515A595B5A47405146340 wrote:
Pin connecting the cable? I don't see an electrical issue with that. Red Flag. Waving red flag with flares. Did you check the water? You really cooked that didn't you. You shouldn't be running the starter for more than a minute max. And then you should let it cool for 10-15 minutes. You'll burn up the starter, the magnets will dislodge and your hair will fall out. A tired bat will spin the starter just fine, but if you don't have at least 10v it won't ever start. the CDI just shuts down. So, now you need new bat leads, maybe a new bat. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 12:53:27 My decomp cable is hooked up. I don't think it has anything to do with the smoke. Just wanted to give out any and all info. I was not running the starter longer than 6 seconds at a time. With 10-15 second intervals between retries. I did not check the water levels. I have never had a problem with water levels on sealed batteries before, but hey, there's a first time for everything. I'll check them during lunch. If I do need a new battery, anyone know how many CCA we need for these bikes? I saw some pretty sweet little lithium options last time I was in Battery World. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/17 at 13:05:15 If it's sealed bat, then no need to check water... idk. I think the stock bat is about 270 cca. Was the engine turning? and not stalled? The cable should not be melting otherwise. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/17 at 13:11:02 Nobody retorques the head unless they pulled it. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 13:49:51 JOG, I retorqued cause I fixed the plug leak and checked my rockers for wear. Vers, The engine was indeed turning. I am wondering if the wire that I used to replace my battery lead with was not rated for the Starting Amp draw. I have used that wire on Kawasaki 850 V twin engines, but I'm pretty sure that they don't pull the same amp draw as our big single. I have replaced the lead now and I am waiting to see if my battery will charge. Otherwise I have some spares sitting around the shop that I can test with. After work I will hook it up and see if I melt again or if it was just a bad wire. :D |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/01/17 at 15:28:02 Kawasaki 850 V twin engines, but I'm pretty sure See what the CCA requirements are. I'd expect the 850 takes fewer amps. The ground should be a clue. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 17:28:33 So my battery charged back up just fine. I hooked it back up and hit the starter button and got a solid "click" from the solenoid. And that was it. The voltage on my battery dropped from 12.8 to 12.6 and while I had the button engaged and then went back to 12.8 when I let go. Same result on another car battery. I took the starter out and it spins well. I opened it up and there was no sign of damage, not even smell. Is there a way to test my solenoid? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 18:04:36 Now that the shop is quiet, I can also hear my decompression solenoid clicking. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/17 at 19:11:57 the bat is dead |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 19:25:09 I'm at home now so I can't test it. I really hope that's all it is, but if the battery is dead, why would it read 12.8 and then 12.6 when I push the starter? It went back to 12.8 after I released the starter button. It's driving me up the wall, the weather is finally turning and I put a ton of hours into the prep and painting, just to be foiled by this. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/17 at 19:38:20 Sorry, made a snap decision from not enough info. So all you hear is 2 clicks, 1 from the decomp, then 1 from the relay? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/01/17 at 20:23:45 Actually, I hear them in the reverse order. The relay then the decomp. I don't know if the order matters or not. Just trying to be thorough. Thanks for your help :) |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/01/17 at 22:04:46 bend over to the left, you should be able to see the decomp going 1st. if it's not going 1st, or is not adjusted right the starter can stall. that'll cause the starter to use more amps and burn up your cables. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 07:42:32 How do I go about adjusting it to go first? It is definitely going second right now. I put my hand on it and can feel that it is clicking over after the relay clicks. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/17 at 07:46:45 There's no adjusting the order. verify that it's adjusted properly and freely. If that doesn't rectify the issue then you need to replace the decomp controller. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 07:55:58 well that doesn't sound encouraging. :P Should I be looking at replacing the relay as well? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/17 at 08:00:47 I don't think so. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 09:20:32 If this is a decomp issue, shouldn't my draw be really high as it is attempting to turn over? My starter doesn't even appear to be trying to turn. and the battery is only dipping 0.2 V |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by batman on 05/02/17 at 10:55:03 I'd pull the starter from the bike and run jumper cables off a car battery and see if the starter turns with no load. it may have run long enough to free the magnets inside the housing .This could provide a straight path to ground , without being able to spin the starter, which would send all the amperage in your battery through the pos cable burning off it's cover. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 12:30:20 I have bench tested the starter already. It spins without any problems when I hot wire it on the bench. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 13:57:07 I just pulled my starter motor and the relay. I hooked them up on the bench to test them. Put the starter in a vice and hooked up the relay as per normal. Then I hooked up a battery and jumpered 12v to the relay. It clicked, but the starter did not spin. I checked and I am not getting any voltage on the starter side of the relay. Have I missed something or is the relay my culprit? |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/17 at 14:08:37 Sounds like you found the problem. 2 little connectors, one ground, one 12v from the starter button. 2 big connectors, one 12v, one to the starter. ground the starter case. but you probably know this. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 14:12:04 Yes, that agrees with what I know and did. But I'd rather have what I think I know confirmed than leave it to chance. I have a couple starter solenoids for gas engines kicking around, unfortunately they ground through the case so I can't straight swap them, I'll see if I can rig one up to work on the bench after work. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by greenmonster on 05/02/17 at 16:37:00 Set up with an alternate relay. Spins the starter motor like a hot dang! Guess I'll be contacting Pin Wall for a used relay. Unless you folks know somewhere cheaper for parts? It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay stealership prices for things like this. |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by youzguyz on 05/03/17 at 01:23:12 2F3A2D2D262527263B3C2D3A480 wrote:
So.. it grounds through the case. So what? If you can bolt it to the fender on the bike, then you are good to go. Or bolt a wire to the case and run that to the black/white (ground) wire for the solenoid. As long as you can put it somewhere, and get the wires to it in a manner that they won't short against something, and it has enough current capacity to carry the starter load, it will work. Check ebay too. Search for "suzuki (savage, s40, ls650) solenoid" |
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Title: Re: Electrical Smoke Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/03/17 at 16:13:13 A big mower might have the right size. Doesn't need to carry enough current to start a Big Rig engine. |
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