SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> back fires and stops /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1493078279 Message started by blacksavage40 on 04/24/17 at 16:57:59

Title: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 04/24/17 at 16:57:59 I looked through posts to find out if there was any other person who had this problem with their bike and couldn't find one so here goes. First of all there is no pattern to the way the bike behaves.   I have ridden over 100 miles before it back fired and then chugged to a stop and I have ridden about 40 before it did the same thing.  After I sit for a while, maybe 15 minutes it starts up and runs fine till it does it again.  The last time it happened I went about 40 miles before it stopped, got it started and went about 10 and it started and then about 1 city block.  At that point I had it towed home.   I is a 2009 S40, has about 23,000 miles on it, a 2 year old battery and it had a fresh tank of gas last time I rode it before I had it towed home.  I am in the habit of putting gas additive in the tank when I fill it. I have since taken it to a mechanic who has had it for over 3 weeks and he seems to have no clue but thinks it might be electrical.  I changed the oil about 1000 miles ago. Any ideas would be appreciated. :)

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by badwolf on 04/24/17 at 17:07:47 Check behind the drive belt, there is a wire that runs beside the battery to the side stand safety switch or neutral switch. It might be loose and rubbing on the belt, wearing thru the covering and messing with the circuit. Mine did that and would just die as I was riding, stop and put it in neutral and it wold start right up.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 04/24/17 at 18:28:37 Thank you so much.  I'll take this to the mechanic and go from there.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/24/17 at 18:38:36 a 2009 S40, has about 23,000 miles on it, Time to look at the cam chain.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by verslagen1 on 04/24/17 at 18:39:55 test the petcock, look it up in the tech section index.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by George Palickar on 04/25/17 at 09:20:01 Check out my post in rubber side down "She made me walk back home".  It really sounds just like the electrical problem that I had last weekend.  I just got done taking the tank off, and cleaning the connectors under there.  When the bike is in the "fail" condition, see if there is any power from teh battery at all.  For my situation there was no power, no lights, strter, etc.  The bike was just running off the generator, not getting the right power to run ignition properly.  I am just going to check, clean, and reseat all connectors, and check the battery terminal connections.  I think we have a broken wire or bad connector.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by George Palickar on 04/25/17 at 09:22:53 OOps, i meant reference post "Bike acting bad, then dead, no electrical power"

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/17 at 08:01:36 3B242225383F0E3E0E36242863510 wrote: a 2009 S40, has about 23,000 miles on it, Time to look at the cam chain.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 04/27/17 at 16:42:23 Chances are it's the stock petcock, I'd be willing to bet that each time it failed and the bike died you where riding at highway speeds .At those speeds the butterfly of the carb is  open wider and the vacuum in the carb is lower,the spring in the carb closes the diaphragm cutting off fuel flow to the carb bowl because there isn't enough vacuum to fight the spring pressure .If I'm correct, you need a Raptor petcock.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by Steddy58 on 05/02/17 at 06:20:22 Mine used to do the same thing and I ( alright then, my mate ) traced it back to the coil shorting out, but that was just my experience, it could be a few things as mentioned above so we have to eliminate the impossible and what we have left however improbable must be the truth, well according to S.H. that is, smart arse :) p.s. I've found that most "mechanics" and electrical stuff dont play well together

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/02/17 at 07:14:25 Thanks for all the input.  So if the mechanic isn't the best place to take the bike for electrical problem what does one do?  I know how to change the oil. lol  That is it.  And, the mechanic has not found the problem.  I took the bike home, rode it 5 miles, it backfired, stopped and wouldn't stay lit so he came and got me and the bike and it i back in the shop.  He checked the petcock and said it was ok.  I printed off the other suggestions and he tried various ideas.  Does anyone want a 2009 S40, black, side bags, wind screen, back rest?   :P

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by Dave on 05/02/17 at 07:30:46 The bike will be a a lot of fun and you won't want to sell it....once you get it running reliably.  Somebody needs to know what to look for at the exact moment that is stops and won't start. Take a screwdriver so you can open up the drain on the bottom of the carb and see if you can get some fuel flow.  If you take a small syringe of fuel you can remove the vacuum hose at the carb and squirt a bit of fuel into the vacuum port of the carb and see if the bike will fire up for a second or two until the fuel is burned off.  Take a spare plug and pull the spark plug wire off - but in the spare plug and set it on the top of the engine and see if the plug makes a spark when you run the starter. Where are you located...maybe we can find you a good mechanic that is local to you.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/02/17 at 08:50:22 He checked gas flow and we were lucky because it "behaved" exactly as I hoped it would when he came to pick it up.  I am in Springfield Ohio for now. Just kidding. I love the bike, it is a lot of fun to ride and I preferred it to the 800 Intruder I gave to my son.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/04/17 at 07:55:13 The mechanic working on my bike let it idle while he worked on other bikes and once warm it did its thing by backfiring and stopping.  Once it cools off it starts up just fine.  So I hope this will be the beginning of finding out what is going on with it.  In the meantime it is raining here in Ohio and 43 degrees so at least I am not missing out on beautiful windless warm days.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/04/17 at 08:23:25 How long did he let it idle ,until it overheated? I hope it wasn't sit on the sidestand ! did he check the petcock ?or the fuel level in the carb bowl after it quit? Almost sounds like he's to busy working on other bike to fix yours.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by stewmills on 05/04/17 at 08:46:29 a) Since the mechanic said he checked the petcock and it was ok, how does he know? Did he follow the suggestions of the forum here to test it or did it just "look" ok?  I wouldn't take his word for it unless he did the recommended petcock tests outlined by this forum. b) Make sure you have no leaks in your carb vacuum line. A small crack will let air leak out thus decreasing your vacuum pressure and lessening the ability for a properly functioning petcock to deliver fuel. c) make sure your gas cap is venting and not clogged. Doesn't really make sense that this would be your problem, but the more you ride and bounce around the more pressure in the tank can build up (or the more a vacuum can build) causing crazy things to happen with your fuel flow. d) If it only seems to happen after the bike gets warm/hot, could be a spark plug getting hot and fouling out as one suggestion mentioned.  Test your plug or get a new one to eliminate that as a possibility. e) If it only seems to happen after the bike gets warm/hot, are you sure that you don't have a loose header or muffler connection that is changing shape when it gets hot thus creating an air leak, which leads to loss of backpressure and possible rough running?  Don't go wrench the header bolts down and break them, they are only supposed to be snug, not superman tight! Maybe none of this is your issue and maybe you have tested all of these things?  I dunno... Good luck!

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/04/17 at 09:57:40 Since the petcock is known to fail and known for its strange symptoms, just spend the money and put a Genuine Yamaha petcock on it and remove the variable.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/04/17 at 11:11:50 I took suggestions from this site to him and he checked several things including the petcock.  When he came to pick it up after it stalled the last time he checked the gas line and it was getting gas.  Once it cools off it starts right away.    When it has happened if I sit for a while, like 20 minutes it will start up but  I don't always get stuck in a convenient spot with a wide shoulder so it was time to get it looked at.  I've heard good things about this guy from 2 different bikers and took him on their recommendation.  So we shall see.  The dealer in the area is thumbs down.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/04/17 at 17:12:57 If you want it do it right, do it yourself! Most places,including dealers don't know squat about this bike! And you need to learn too!I think it's time to get your hands dirty!I guess if your great mechanic can't figure it out in over 3 weeks, he might not be so great . Hell,it's one cylinder ,one sparkplug,one carb ,how hard can it be?

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/05/17 at 07:53:59 I agree with you but for me outside of the oil change I have no knowledge of the mechanics of a motorcycle.  I'm learning a little  as time goes on so maybe someday I will be able to do the work.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/05/17 at 09:35:46 Can youwork on a lawnmower?

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by norm92de on 05/05/17 at 12:47:13 I think Justin has a good idea. Get a Raptor. They are cheaper than a mechanic's flat rate. Eventually you will change the petcock. So why nor now? :) My practically brand new petcock is sitting in my garage. I changed it because I new it would eventually give trouble. :'(

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by norm92de on 05/05/17 at 12:48:29 P.S. it also makes getting the fuel tank off a lot easier.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/05/17 at 13:56:07 I can do the maintenance on a lawn mower, push type, except for sharpening the blade, that is change oil spark plug and clean carb.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/05/17 at 14:03:57 You really need to order the petcock and change it yourself ,you need to take the bike home and perfrom the work yourself. changing the petcock is putting the stock one on pri and draining the gas ,taking out the two screws and washers that hold it to the tank, pulling the stock, side in the new Raptor ,and replacing the screws, and sealing washers  after that you need to plug the opening on the carb that the vacuum line hooked to.They sell small rubber caps at any parts store. You can  do it!(don't place a fuel filter between the petcock and the carb, and don't use any fuel additive.)

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by ero4444 on 05/05/17 at 14:32:13 I freely admit I don't know much about engines.  But I had the petcock issue, and I don't recall any backfires because of it. It would silently die at highway and low speed and not restart until I turned it to Prime.  I put the Raptor on, it was easy and I was lucky it didn't leak.  I don't think the petcock is his described problem (but it will be a problem). This backfire and stop, does sound electrical.  First it's running normally, fuel flow is normal, then spark is interrupted, engine still turning, fuel is still flowing unburnt thru the muffler, so it backfires.  Right?   So it sounds like a skinned wire close to a hot part.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/17 at 14:51:45 Petcock issue can cause a backfire depending on the engine load and condition of the petcock.  It will have some of the same issues as running out of gas.  I can feel the carb lean out, sometimes it'll backfire, sometimes just quit. The petcock can cause some really funky issues, best to turn it to prime, and see if the problem goes away.  If it does, replace it or vac line or test it further.  We like to get this out of the way 1st since it's very common.  A lot more common then wires rubbing on the pulley.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/08/17 at 14:48:14 Ero4444A skinned wire next to a hot part? A skinned wire would care less about the part being hot or not , a bare wire would jump to ground on a metal part no matter what the temp. If the bike has spark to start,the only way the spark would fail is if the ignitor  unit failed ,this could be seen buy clamping on an induction timing light.Logic-is the best tool in the box,the bike has compression,spark, fuel? I have advised him to buy and change to a raptor to no avail ! He has a "mechanic "that leaves the bike on the side stand idling ,to go work on other bikes,until it stalls (wonderful) this should give you some idea about what this guy knows or cares about fixing the bike! Stick a fork in me ,I'm done! SO BE IT!

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/17 at 14:57:29 He has a "mechanic "that leaves the bike on the side stand idling ,to go work on other bikes,until it stalls I didn't see that... Ooopsies..

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/08/17 at 15:19:24 Hello I am the person who started this conversation.   Just to clear up a bit of the comments, nearly everything that was suggested he did and to no avail.  The only time the bike backfires and stops is when it has been ridden for a while, even up to 40 miles.  Once it cools down, maybe 20 minutes it will start again.  I don't see his idea of letting it idle as crazy as it did finally backfire and stop while in his shop.    I am an older female with little knowledge of motorcycles except for oil change and checking tire pressure.  I thank all of you for your suggestions and be glad you can work on your own bikes.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/08/17 at 20:59:50 Well being young enough to ride a motor cycle ,and being female doesn't cut it as an excuse. These bikes are coed ,and tools are too.As for age ,,if you can match my 69 years I may think that you need physical help.If not.  I would say that threre are women on this site and they do work on their bikes and so can you.I gave you a blow by blow on how to swap the petcock that anyone could follow,and this is the type of info this site provides to anyone , and I would be glad to help in the future,but I feel it is not my "job" to enlighten your mechanic.Leaving the bike to idle on the sidestand ,starves the right side of the cam for oil ,more so it the idle speed is set below 1000rpm.If he didn't set a fan in front of the bike it overheated ,causing further damage.He is clueless ,that is why a said you should take the bike home and do the repairs yourself,or you may take it to the dealer,they may be better than you think.But you never know if your guy doesn't ruin your motor he may have it running by Christmas.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/08/17 at 21:34:33 It would be helpful to know your location ,maybe a member could guide you through some repairs.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/17 at 22:13:56 There may be nobody else on the planet who will tell you that idling on the sidestand  will wreck the cam,but that doesn't mean it's not true. We can walk you through things.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/09/17 at 05:30:29 HOLD THE PRESSES!I BELIEVE  I HAVE DISCOVERED  YOUR PROBLEM! IT'S SABOTAGE! BY THE OWNER! May I quote you?" I'm in the habit of putting in an additive each time I fill up the tank" Most additives are petroleum distillates ,(AKA-diesel fuel/KEROSENE).seeing that you never really use all the gas in your tank,if your habit is to add the same amount of additive each time ,you have over many fill ups ,slowly turned the fuel in your tank from gas into diesel fuel,WHICH IS HEAVIER THAN GAS ,it settles to the bottom of the tank at smoother highway speeds and you get a slug of it in the cylinder the sparkplug can't ignite it ,it then leaves unburnt into the hot exhaust pipe which does ignite it causing the bike to backfire ,and die,killing the motor.As the fuel level drops in your tank the concentration becomes stronger ,this explains your the shorter length in time between your problems on the road, and the fact that in the end the bike wouldn't start at all. " When the bike sits for 15 min. and cools off then it will start right up"No when it sits the oil in the fuel settles to the bottom of the carb fuel bowl and the gas moves upward toward the jets allowing the bike to be restarted .If you pull the sparkplug and it has black soot on it ,that would be an indication ,stock motors usually run lean and clean plugs. drain all the present fuel from the tank and carb bowl ,replace with new (I' d use 91 octane this time) and use a new or cleaned sparkplug.SKIP USING ADDITIVE ,IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY ( unless your putting the bike in storage ,then use sta-bil ),as the bike doesn't require it ,and they are for one time ,not continual use.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/09/17 at 07:00:35 This explanation  of over doing the additive  makes sense.  Someone along the way told me to put in additive every time I get gas.  You live and learn and I am fairly new at riding. About working on the bike.  I know I could do it and I know many women do and age is not important. I would gladly learn how to do more of the maintenance if I had someone here to walk me through it but  I am not willing to attempt it with email and pictures/instructions or even youtube.  I can pull the spark plug and check it out once I get the bike back here.  I can drain the gas line too and go from there.  I have one neighbor who rides.  He uses the same mechanic and doesn't even change his own oil so he is useless.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/09/17 at 07:09:34 We have over 7000 members world wide ,most here in the states ,where are you located ? state and nearest city? someone could be close enough to lend a hand.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by blacksavage40 on 05/09/17 at 10:34:28 Springfield Ohio

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/17 at 10:45:08 .  I have one neighbor who rides.  He uses the same mechanic and doesn't even change his own oil so he is useless. That's a good attitude. You'll probably be okay on your own. The CATCH, spotting the Additive thing, good job.. Now, has your cam been scorched by the mechanic? Might wanna look at the valve adjustment. If it's much different between intake and exhaust and the exhaust is looser, that could be bad news. I would want to know before I took it home. The mechanic who said he knows how to work on it might be paying for the parts.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by TheNaughtyLemur on 05/09/17 at 11:03:08 If you can pull the spark plug then you can change the petcock. While you're getting to the spark plug, you've done most of the work needed to change the petcock. All you have to do is: 1. Drain the gas 2. Remove the gas tank from the frame (you have to do this to get at the spark plug anyway) 3. On the underside of the tank, unscrew the petcock (two screws) and pull it out of the gas tank. Make sure you remove the hardware from the petcock. 4. Slide the new Raptor petcock into the slot the old petcock sat. 5. Install the old hardware in the same spot. 6. Put everything back on the bike after checking the spark plug.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by batman on 05/09/17 at 14:31:35 You don't have to remove the tank to change the sparkplug ,you only have to remove the chrome cover on top of the head,and use the sparkplug socket in the tool pouch.

Title: Re: back fires and stops Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/17 at 17:14:10 Correct. And, the cavity the plug sits in catches grit. Check it, clear it, before you pull the plug. The vacuum line has to be plugged off.

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