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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Engine Replacement /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1492530529 Message started by Rayven on 04/18/17 at 08:48:49 |
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Title: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/18/17 at 08:48:49 Just curious...has anyone tried or know anyone who has tried to put a different engine in the savage frame? |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/17 at 09:13:03 Okay, What have you done? |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/18/17 at 09:44:41 " 627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:
Hahaha ;D Not a daggon thing...I was riding to work this morning and she died on me and I had to push her home. Remember when I broke down on my trip to CA and OI came to help? We thought it was the spark splug but it wasn't. Well it's acting the same way (sputtering like it has no gas, and yes the gas was turned on, but will push start sort of). What ended up being the "cure" at that point was pulling the carb, cleaning it and putting it back on. When we pulled it there were some teeny tiny metal shavings in there, and it wasn't possible to know if it was from when I was chopping stuff (and maybe didn't plug up all of the holes as well as I should have), or if the piston is rubbing... All in all, I have no issue with fixing whatever the real problem may be...just curious about the possibilities of putting a stronger engine (or maybe something with more cylinders) in there. I've pretty much fallen in love with the little "chopper" I've built, but wouldn't mind being able to go just a little faster for a little longer. And if I just buy a faster bike, it will end up looking the exact same so might as well explore the options of just throwing something else in there. http://i64.tinypic.com/igyhbd.jpg http://i68.tinypic.com/2eex642.jpg |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/18/17 at 09:51:47 A different engine is an engineering project that is not for the faint of heart. However, a big-bore and stroked engine is a much more attainable alternative to the stock engine. With a piston kit, cams and some porting you can get up to 50% more power - that results in 100% more enjoyment. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/18/17 at 09:56:02 4842464C474E4A431D1B1F2F0 wrote:
Go on... |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/18/17 at 10:01:45 Yep...I'm with Gary. Putting an alternate engine in there will take away a lot of the stuff that is so cool about this bike. The Savage engine is very reliable after the cam chain, head plug and Raptor petcock issue is resolved. (Sounds like you should clean your fuel tank and the hoses in addition to cleaning the carb. Engine mods are pretty simple on this engine, and they can provide a bike that is far more capable in both speed and endurance - gearing changes that go along with the engine changes can make the bike a very nice bike at 70 mph Unfortunately they don't come very cheaply - but it will be less than an engine transplant. A Wiseco Piston, a performance camshaft and a bit of head porting.....and your "need for speed" will likely be satiated! ;) |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/18/17 at 10:16:00 6D565B4C5D514A4C575F524D3E0 wrote:
There is a brand new peanut tank on the bike and brand new fuel hoses, with a petcock that fits the tank. See 70 mph isn't quite where I'd like to be. I'd like to be able to comfortably sit at 80 mph with more room to go if necessary...(highway riding and whatnot). Am I just wanting more than my little gal is capable of? :-[ |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/18/17 at 10:38:03 It comes down to how much money you want to throw at the bike. A comfortable all-day 80 mph is obtainable with a secondary gear change (which will require a conversion to chain drive) and engine mods. Of course, if ya gonna go faster you'll be wanting brakes that are up to the job. Oh, stable handling and a smooth ride are important at high speeds. See, we just spent $3,000. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/18/17 at 10:46:37 I have a 95mm Wiseco, Stage 1 cam, ported head, Mikuni Carb, and I have a double Kawasaki pulley conversion. I could do 75mph all day long, and I suppose a sustained 80 is doable - the bike gets to 80mph pretty fast and the engine is turning at 4,550 rpm with the 18" rear wheel and double pulley conversion. If you did a 97mm Wiseco, Stage 3 cam, ported head, Mikuni carb, good exhaust system and the needing gearing change with the double Kawasaki pulley conversion or chain/sprocket conversion......you would most likely find what you are looking for. And for the "more room is necessary"......I was able to find that I have bit of room to spare on my bike. It went 101.1 mph @ 6,215 rpm.....if I fussed around with the gearing I could probably do a bit better. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/18/17 at 10:53:44 303A3E343F36323B656367570 wrote:
That does make the choice a bit tougher - as you can buy a gently used 80 mph sport touring motorcycle for that kind of money! You would lose the thrill of showing folks what a big single can do however - I was on a group ride with a bunch of big V-Twins, and they were very surprised when they couldn't leave me behind! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by ohiomoto on 04/18/17 at 11:53:39 7E4D555A4942151C2C0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's not your piston that left those shavings behind. It would be tall odder for any part of your motor to wind up in your carb. You know, with things like the intake valve and the fact that the engine sucks air from the carb... |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by ohiomoto on 04/18/17 at 11:57:21 And I can't see throwing a ton of money at your bike unless you absolutely love it. Maybe just do the pulleys and think about an 18" wheel and see what you think. Otherwise, I'd look to see what else it out there. Either way, you're going to want to fix your current problem. It's probably something dumb. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by ohiomoto on 04/18/17 at 12:00:10 53686572636F747269616C73000 wrote:
That does make the choice a bit tougher - as you can buy a gently used 80 mph sport touring motorcycle for that kind of money![/quote]-------------------------------- Somehow I don't get the feeling that the OP is digging the idea of a sport touring motorcycle ! :D |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/18/17 at 12:09:06 Yeah.....I do understand that sometimes what is easy isn't always what is the best choice. I feel the same way about crotch rockets - they are fun to ride....but I just don't like being seen on them as I don't want to be associated with the "young hooligan" attitude they have earned. There are a lot affordable Japanese V-Twins that can be owned for $3,000 or less - they aren't light and nimble like the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by verslagen1 on 04/18/17 at 12:27:09 06352D22313A6D64540 wrote:
No, but I have seen a savage engine in a different frame. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by pam on 04/18/17 at 17:48:09 well as a female and not alot of mechanical exsperience with a motorcycle... here is my thought. what can be typed in print is great BUT BUT BUT .... TO hear Daves bike...if he is refering to the cafe bike...is the sound... You all know the ins and outs and numbers ...but to take this single bore engine and get that sound... to me ..NOTHING compares... IT has the most throaty and rumble that just changes the whole attitude of this bike...and i cant convey how much it sounds so ...amazing :) |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Violent_Rage on 04/19/17 at 06:43:50 754E4354454952544F474A55260 wrote:
Hi Dave, how much? |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/19/17 at 07:00:47 Violent Rage: What?????? That is in my Cafe' bike.....what would I do if I sold the engine out of it? :-? Pam: Thanks for the compliment....the sound of that engine makes me smile as well. The bike really has a lot of personality and runs great! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/19/17 at 08:28:05 12292433222E353328202D32410 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/19/17 at 09:15:32 But seriously....on the cost. Speed does cost money - how fast can you afford to go? The Wiseco piston really helps - they run about $ 220 with shipping. Lancer had some 94mm pistons and they are great as you can use a good stock cylinder - a bore for the 95/96/97mm pistons adds about $80 and needs to be done by a qualified shop as you don't want a cylinder that is too tight and will seize - or too loose and is worn out before you even install it. The silicone carbide treatment on the cylinder is also a nice touch for a durable installation. Lancer has complete piston/cylinder kits for $ 575. While the head is off...it is time to have somebody clean up the ports for better flow. The camshaft really compliments the Wiseco - but can also be used with a stock piston and will help. Those kits run $ 299 from Lancer. You can run the stock carb and air filter - they work OK with the improvements and can be changed out later. I ran my engine with a bigger cam/piston and the stock carb and airbox for a year before I did the Cafe's switch - and it ran really good! You can do the necessary gearing upgrade for $ 100 - $150....and you can use a chain conversion or a Kawasaki front pulley. So.....the simple upgrades listed about get you close to $1,000 - and you haven't bought gaskets, sealer or paid any labor! Another $200 for gaskets and seals (Versy tensioner and head plug) is likely - and if you don't have competent mechanics as friends......that will most certainly add to the cost, as it is a time consuming project. However - you will get an engine that will allow you to enjoy your bike a lot more (if you need more speed). It is really cool to ride a big single that can "kick butt" and run with the big dogs! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/17 at 09:18:49 Speed does cost money - how fast can you afford to go? I don't even need to consider the cost of parts and labor. It's the Emergency Room bill that I know would follow the Going Faster bill that helps me save money. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/19/17 at 09:30:26 63585542535F444259515C43300 wrote:
Thanks for all that Dave. Gonna just do a carb rebuild kit this weekend and change the oil. I'll be sure to check out the cam chain tensioner while I'm in there too. Never checked it out, and don't know if the previous owner took care of that or not. I'll need to fix my speedometer so I can keep her at a lower speed and not push her too hard. Thinking about switching to a different air filter set up (cone or pancake) but we will see where the weekend takes us! I think what will end up happening is if I can just get this bike to be my daily driver (top speed of 60 to work), then I will just get a bigger bike as my next chopper project. I do love the the looks and questions I get about my little thumper chopper, but I'd rather spend the money on a more sensible project (speed wise). Plus it just gives me an excuse to get another bike ;) On a side note, I found a Harley chopper project for sale on Craigslist for dirt cheap, I sent the link to the husband thinking he would try to talk me out of it (he doesn't ride, but has been thinking about starting), instead he sent the owner a message and we may end up in a bidding war with each other for the same project ;D ;D I thought that was pretty funny... |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by ohiomoto on 04/19/17 at 09:46:47 0E3D252A3932656C5C0 wrote:
That'a girl! I knew you weren't buying no sport whatever bike. :) 0E3D252A3932656C5C0 wrote:
Good call. Save the Harley Chopper for days you don't want to make it into work (because you'll be stranded on the side of the road somewhere, err...like you are now with the Savage chopper :( ) lol |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/19/17 at 09:48:33 6C6B6A6C6E6C776C030 wrote:
That'a girl! I knew you weren't buying no sport whatever bike. :) 0E3D252A3932656C5C0 wrote:
Good call. Save the Harley Chopper for days you don't want to make it into work (because you'll be stranded on the side of the road somewhere, err...like you are now with the Savage chopper :( ) lol [/quote] ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/19/17 at 11:24:44 90% of the Harley Davidson motorcycles ever made are still on the Road! (The other 10% made it home). ;D |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by ohiomoto on 04/19/17 at 12:36:34 I don't rip on Harley's too much... About 20 years ago, I had a 71 Triumph that failed me one time during my ownership. The master link fell off about 40 miles from home. I had to ride pregnant dog on the back of my buddies 883 sportster. He was about 5'10, 155 lbs. I'm 6'3" and weighed about 225 back then. How embarrassing! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/19/17 at 13:05:45 We tend to "tease" folks about their Harley motorcycles......and I never miss a chance to tease a BMW rider about wearing a turtleneck that matches his bike....and don't get me started on the Goldwing riders and his/her matching outfits! And yet.....I would ride any of those bikes and enjoy the ride. As far as I am concerned the teasing is just for fun.....every bike has some good and some bad involved. Most modern bikes are very reliable, and I can appreciate a cool motorcycle from any brand. If you buy an old beat up bike - it doesn't matter whose name is on the side of the tank - you better be good at wrenching. My biggest grip is the Noobs/squids on any bike - the folks that ride over their ability or in an unsafe manner. And that can happen on a Harley, Suzuki, Ducati, Triumph.....any make. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Violent_Rage on 04/21/17 at 00:09:23 6A515C4B5A564D4B5058554A390 wrote:
;D That's what happens when you don't speak the same language! I meant, how much you spent for boosting the Savage |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/21/17 at 04:07:16 516E686B6269735855666062070 wrote:
;D That's what happens when you don't speak the same language! I meant, how much you spent for boosting the Savage [/quote] I do hate to create a total....as the amount is likely a bit scary. My engine had a knock in it - so I replaced the crankshaft and balancer shaft bearings when I had the engine apart, along with all gaskets and seals. I spent about $ 400 on gaskets/bearings/seals, $ 180 for the cylinder bore and silicone carbide treatment, $ 217 for the Wiseco, $299 for the cam, $399 for the carb, and I probably have another $100 in the air cleaner and the parts I used to make the muffler. I did the head porting and engine labor myself.....so it appears I have $ 1,595 in the parts to build the engine. For the gearing I bought a new Kawasaki front pulley that was about $85 and I machined it to fit - the used rear Kawasaki pulley was about $60 shipped - so my gearing change was another $145. So...I have likely spent a bit under $ 2,000 for the parts to get my engine up to the current level. It currently has a 95mm piston and a Stage 1 cam - if I wanted to get more HP I could install a 97mm piston and a Stage 3 cam....likely what would get me another 4HP that would only be used on those rare occasions I apply full throttle - and likely it is not a good investment as the bike runs really well as it is, and I anticipate it to last a very long time. I suppose I could have purchased a new SV650, Royal Enfield or a similar bike for what I have in the used Savage purchase, engine and Cafe' bike mods - but those bikes would not have the same appeal to me as my "one of a kind" Savage does. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Violent_Rage on 04/21/17 at 06:38:37 704B4651404C57514A424F50230 wrote:
I understand why you don't like to create the total. I have been planning the engine overhaul for years. It is 22 years old, it has lost power and it always loses oil and I would be sorry to do all that job without adding some HP. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by batman on 04/21/17 at 07:33:12 A "dirt cheap"H-D sounds like a nightmare to me ! how much work / money are you going to need to get it to run? Sorry but if you have a hard time keeping a savage running ,I wouldn't be looking at an old Harley,"out of the frying pan into the fire" I'm thinking! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/17 at 07:39:37 One of us Totally misread this thread. I'm hoping it's you. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/21/17 at 07:45:45 586B737C6F64333A0A0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by batman on 04/21/17 at 07:51:09 JOG sorry I didn't say dirt cheap,instead I mistakenly said $500,but she did say she and hubby were looking at buying an HD chopper project,dirt cheap,(basket case?).If they're looking at an old AMF or Ironhead HD that could be a nightmare. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/21/17 at 08:23:18 True, the wrong HD could be a financial DeZasster, but I don't think Raven is unable to keep the Savage running. I may have missed something, or, you thought the Savage was kikkin her ass, but the way I read it, she's just wanting more Giddyap for the Big Road.. I can't imagine her looking any cooler on anything else, but IF it's possible, I wanna see it. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by batman on 04/25/17 at 08:30:24 JOG ,I don't know if the savage is "kickin her arse " but she did say it died and she had to push it home,(second brakedown on the road)so I assumed she's having trouble keeping the savage running . |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by buster6315 on 04/25/17 at 19:55:29 7D4E56594A41161F2F0 wrote:
There is a brand new peanut tank on the bike and brand new fuel hoses, with a petcock that fits the tank. See 70 mph isn't quite where I'd like to be. I'd like to be able to comfortably sit at 80 mph with more room to go if necessary...(highway riding and whatnot). Am I just wanting more than my little gal is capable of? :-[/quote] Sounds to me like you would do well with a Sportster instead. :) |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Rayven on 04/25/17 at 21:35:15 2221342D212E7478400 wrote:
Overall issue is the carb. It was the the problem with both breakdowns. My rebuild kit is on the way. When she runs she runs like a champ. Once I get it situated and jetted correctly I doubt I'll have any issues. My bigger picture was definitely getting more spead out of her. Never heard back from the HD guy on Craigslist. But I have seen some pretty gorgeous non HD 4 cylinder choppers! Leaves a lot of room for making some amazing custom pipes! I probably just need to buckle down until the Savage is back in tip top shape and keep my head out of the chopper magazines for a while. I think my big issue is I LOVE building and wrenching as much as I love riding! ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Dave on 04/26/17 at 03:59:57 5E6D757A6962353C0C0 wrote:
Yep, it is an affliction and curse that some of us have - I probably spend more time in the garage than I do riding. I am hoping to change that ratio a bit in the future....more riding and a bit less wrenching. Still.....I would love to find a vintage motorcycle restoration project. I thought I had a 1915 Excelsior "Big X" in my future - unfortunately that didn't work out. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by Ruttly on 04/26/17 at 19:00:42 Wow Dave , your on your way to recovery , you admitted your addiction. I hope you never get better. Cause then I might feel alone. My wife understands. I enjoy every aspect , the hunt ,the ever changing design , the build and the ride ! It is a illness/obsession , the same blood flows in our veins. I will become a better builder with every build and have no plans on ever stopping. Someday we will tear up some twisties ! |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by LANCER on 04/27/17 at 08:49:22 74475F5043481F16260 wrote:
Overall issue is the carb. It was the the problem with both breakdowns. My rebuild kit is on the way. When she runs she runs like a champ. Once I get it situated and jetted correctly I doubt I'll have any issues. My bigger picture was definitely getting more spead out of her. Never heard back from the HD guy on Craigslist. But I have seen some pretty gorgeous non HD 4 cylinder choppers! Leaves a lot of room for making some amazing custom pipes! I probably just need to buckle down until the Savage is back in tip top shape and keep my head out of the chopper magazines for a while. I think my big issue is I LOVE building and wrenching as much as I love riding! ;) ;)[/quote] When you take your carb apart for your rebuild, be sure that you check each and every tiny passageway in the carb body, and there are quite a few. Get a fresh can of carb cleaner with the little red tube taped to the side of the can. You will need it to blow through all of those tiny holes. If possible, you will also need to use a compressor with the air gun assessory to blow out the holes after the carb cleaner is used. (be sure to have goggles on since spray can go everywhere at times). If you find passageways that do not respond to these attempts (spray does not come out somewhere) then you need a carb cleaning tool ($15) to break up the crusty mess inside. The passageways are so small it does not take much to clog them, and sometimes a grain of sand will migrate from one area to another, causing you all sorts of frustration. The little brass tube that comes out of the carb body into the float bowl has 3 really tiny holes in it, one on the very end and one on each side, about 1/2" from the end. This is from eBay: http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/DHQAAOSwtfhYnhsT/s-l225.jpg CARBURETOR CARB JET CLEANING TOOL motorcycle atv Mikuni Honda cb750 cb900 cb550 $14.97 Buy It Now Free shipping |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by batman on 04/27/17 at 11:33:00 You can by torch tip cleaning set at Home Depot for $5.00 |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by gizzo on 04/27/17 at 17:45:42 or you could do the job properly, dismantle the whole carb and take the bits down to your local fuel injection place and have it all ultrasonic cleaned. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by LANCER on 04/27/17 at 20:35:31 243E3A383907362523253E333032570 wrote:
Cleaning, assembly & reinstall takes about 30 minutes. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by gizzo on 04/28/17 at 14:18:43 ok, don't have it ultrasonically cleaned. I don't care. Not everyone is as talented or thorough as you and u/s cleaning could give a good result for those people. . |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/28/17 at 14:32:18 Carburetors have been getting cleaned for decades. Long before the marvels of high speed vibrations, mechanics were unclogging jets and tiny passageways. Berrymans B12 spray and some EYE PROTECTION, if you don't have a compressor, Certainly, if you've got a chemical in it, and you're gonna shoot air in, eye protection is a must. |
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Title: Re: Engine Replacement Post by gizzo on 04/28/17 at 15:09:36 yes. thankyou. I realise that. but maybe, if rayven hashad multiple attempts at the carb, just maybe it's worth having it done, just so she knows, for sure, that it's properly clean. but what would I know?. have a nice day. |
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