|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Side Stand Switch Diode? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1491497990 Message started by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 09:59:50 |
|
Title: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 09:59:50 I'm referring to the diagram in reply #4 here... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1294779818 It shows a diode from the switch to ground. Is there actually a diode built into this switch? If so can this diode handle the current load of another relay in addition to the side stand relay? |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Dave on 04/06/17 at 10:18:49 The diode is not built into the relay...it is a separate plug in part that plugs into a connector in the wiring harness. I don't know what the capacity is/isn't. Look at Post #3 in this thread. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1099317926 |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 11:10:31 Ok that's good to know. But the diagram shows a diode within the side stand switch itself in addition to the side stand diode.... That diode can probably handle another relay solenoids current but it might not be able to handle the reverse EMF (inductive kickback) from two solenoids. It's values were likely chosen based on the calculated reverse EMF of a single relay. Looking at the diagram though I guess I can just connect the new relay solenoid to the black/orange line coming from the sidestand relay contacts for the same result and then I won't have to sweat about the diode. Or the voltage drop across the diode with two solenoid loads which might cause neither to energize. If Suzuki had just used a double throw relay here they could have implemented the same switching result without lighting the neutral light when it isn't needed and saved themselves form needing those diodes. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Dave on 04/06/17 at 12:05:45 What are you up to? You installing a Flux Capacitor? |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 13:00:43 I guess you inferred this from my engine upgrades this past winter. Yes now that I can do a steady 88 mph I'm ready to go where you don't need roads.... :D when I get back you can take my flying LS650 for a spin. The tinkering bug has me all worked up over that unused parking light in my headlight again. And I intended to take a stab at it once the weather permitted. I ordered a SPDT automotive relay and socket a few months back. time to put it to use. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Papa Bear on 04/06/17 at 13:12:28 Can you use a transistor to switch the relay ? You could use this schematic. http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g35/bobistheoilguy/circuit%20diagram.png (http://s52.photobucket.com/user/bobistheoilguy/media/circuit%20diagram.png.html) ;D |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 13:24:01 There's no reason I couldn't use a transistor, but it would add complexity and take up more space (insulation, heatsink, clamper diode, etc.) so I'm just going to use existing switchgear on the bike. Someone here had a good idea to use the parking circuit off of the ignition switch and that's obviously how the parking bulb is intended to be used but my use-case is a bit different. I want the parking light lit and headlight off when the bike is running with the kickstand down so I'm not shining through my neighbors windows across the alley while warming the engine up before I ride at night. Kick the stand up the headlight turns on and the parking light goes dark. I made a post about it before but I'm darned if I can find it again. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Papa Bear on 04/06/17 at 13:28:44 Just use the transistor as a buffer to drive the relay coil Very little current, very little transistor ,, no heatsink required Transistors used as a switch don't get (too) hot |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 13:45:27 But a transistor large enough to handle the current for the headlight is going to get hot and need a heatsink. Think of that SPDT relay I mentioned. Center pole goes to +V Top pole to headlight bulb Bottom pole to parking light bulb Solenoid powered from side stand relay. The relay just switches one or the other bulb. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Papa Bear on 04/06/17 at 13:51:32 You are missing my point Have the side-stand relay power the small transistor which in turn powers the SPDT relay coil. The side-stand circuit would even know the transistor was there ;) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/06/17 at 13:51:38 However, I have to consider the highbeam switch too. So I can go the other way. The relay I add can make or break the ground path for either bulb. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Papa Bear on 04/06/17 at 13:54:27 You are originally concerned if the sidestand circuit could handle another relay coil. With the buffer transistor driving the SPDT coil it wouldn’t be hardly a load at all |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by norm92de on 04/06/17 at 17:22:24 Sounds to me like somebody wants to end up in the dark trying to start the bike. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/17 at 17:56:35 He's more concerned about the reverse EMF when the coil drops. Put another diode in parallel? Put a 16 volt Zener in parallel? |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Dave on 04/06/17 at 18:23:28 5F4746435B47564246444A2F0 wrote:
The warm up shouldn't be any more than a minute, and the bike shouldn't be on the sidestand as the cam doesn't seem to get enough oil to the uphill side at idle speeds. Get on the bike, start it, get it running and keep it at a fast idle with your throttle hand.....half a minute works fine to get the oil everywhere.....then ride off and be gentle on the throttle until engine is warmed up well. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by oldNslow on 04/06/17 at 18:32:33 Quote:
Considerate. "07 S40 (Thumpy): 666cc big bore, stage 2 webcam, dyna muffler, 412 shocks" Just turn the bike around so the exhaust is pointin' at his windows 'staid of the headlight. Don't have rewire nothin' ;) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by norm92de on 04/06/17 at 20:32:22 Hope that was tongue in cheek Justin. :) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/17 at 21:41:27 No, why wouldn't it work? |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/07/17 at 08:33:33 If it's cold out I have to give the bike a decent warming or it coughs and acts cranky while riding. And I do sit on it while it is warming up, Dave and other's warned me about idling on the stand before. As for the wiring, it should be fine to power the new relay right from a contact on the existing side stand relay instead of using the sidestand switch circuit. That switch has a diode which will have a typical 0.7V drop across it. Powering two relays from that circuit may become problematic. For example turning on the turn signal and the voltage drop from that bringing the level of the sidestand switch circuit down further resulting in the relays de-energizing and then my headlight would be flashing opposite the turn signal ;D I will try and verify my idea against the actual wiring over the weekend and see if it pans out. If not, back to the drawing board. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/07/17 at 09:16:40 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
The Zener is a good idea for suppressing the spike when the coils are denenergized. The solenoid coil can potentially generate a few hundred volts from inductive kickback. Add another coil and you can potentially double this as the voltage from the simultaneously de-energized coils will add together. Let's assume we get a kickback of 214 volts form a single coil. With two it would be up to 428V. If the original Suzuki diode has a PIV of 400V then I'll be SOL once it gets hit with the higher kickback and need to order a new diode from Suzuki. Or substitute in one with a much higher PIV. Any zener used would have to have a high enough PIV too if one was used. And that's where it gets complicated - knowing how high of a PIV I'll need is a PITA. I can try many different diodes with sequentially higher PIV's until I find one that doesn't pop. Or I can get empirical amd drag the oscilloscope out to the bike to make some accurate measurements of the event. I've had to do this before for work a long time ago, measure the peak inrush current of hybrid switch mode power supplies. Capturing such short lived transients is tough to do. It can be done but it's alot more work than I want to deal with right now. I want to have fun tinkering, not start an elaborate experiement where I have to use my noodle. And I'm not sure I have the correct resistor on hand for such a test anyways. Has to be like 0.1 Ohms 50 or more Watts with 0.1% tolerance. You put the resistor in series with the circuit you're measuring and place the oscilloscope probe to measure across that resistor, then very carefully set the trigger for the expected time interval and sync the trace to that trigger. Now you need to observe the trace at different volt/div settings until you find correct voltage range. Finally, make the event happen several dozen times and record the measured voltage each time and make an average of the recorded values. Now you know how big your transient gets in terms of voltage after mathematically deriving the voltage from the measured current and the known value of the test resistor. All of this completely bores me to tears so I'll just grab some alligator clips and wire cutters and see what I can see brute force style. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by norm92de on 04/07/17 at 10:28:49 Justin, I haven't given it any thought, it may or may not work but I don't think it matters. My point is that our bikes have enough questionable electronic stuff already without adding more. Reducing would be better in my opinion. ;) If Mikes bike cannot be ridden with choke after a minute of warm up it needs carb adjustment anyway. :) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/17 at 20:54:03 If Mikes bike cannot be ridden with choke after a minute of warm up it needs carb adjustment anyway. Smiley Back to top That's what I'm tawkin bout, Willis. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by batman on 04/07/17 at 23:26:42 You could use the K.I.S.S. system,drill a hole in the top of the headlight case insert a toggle switch one way to power the parking light ,the other way to complete the headlight ground .If the switch dies on a trip just twist the ground together and tape,or is that to easy? Power your light off the igi. and you can't even run the battery down .I for one don't want to be in the middle of God's country wondering where my next relay ,transistor ,or toasted wires,or new fuse is coming from.I think you're over engineering the problem!the electric system on a bike is the weakest system,why add to your problems. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/08/17 at 07:52:58 I may have to do it your way Batman. For all my searching I absolutely cannot find the relay I ordered now. I don't know where it's gone since it arrived a few months ago. In searching for it though I did manage to find a handful of military grade environmentally sealed toggle switches. The kind with the red rubber around the actual toggle and the screw terminals in back. They came out of a surplus hydraulic test set for Navy helicopters that I received as part of a DRMO auction I won. These switches are indestructible. Stinking relay, what the heck...??? :-/ |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/08/17 at 10:10:28 A piece of cardboard and some string. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by SALB on 04/08/17 at 10:29:42 Just throw an old towel over the headlight and toss it to the side when you leave. ::) You can also put it on the seat overnight to keep light rain, frost, or dew off, if that's an issue. 8-) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by norm92de on 04/08/17 at 11:14:10 I like Batman's idea a switch on the headlight. KISS principle in action. Well almost. :) |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/08/17 at 12:12:54 4B484B5F49414F2A0 wrote:
There's the quick, cheap and easy answer. |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by Dave on 04/09/17 at 02:39:34 Yep....I like the manual switch idea as well. Less complex, and gives you flexibility - and puts "you" in control! |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by philthymike on 04/09/17 at 04:46:56 Aha appealing to the control freak in me now? not bad! :D |
|
Title: Re: Side Stand Switch Diode? Post by batman on 04/09/17 at 14:36:57 That helicopter switch sounds ideal for the purpose ,I'd go that way. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |