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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Would you pay more? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1491009420 Message started by raydawg on 03/31/17 at 18:17:00 |
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Title: Would you pay more? Post by raydawg on 03/31/17 at 18:17:00 The crux of my question is, would you pay more for a motorcycle made here in the states if it was a quality build and produced more jobs at home? To qualify my question a little bit more, I am not talking Harley roadking prices..... I am talking entry level bikes that might be a few hundred, to a couple thousands more than to a comparable import, excluding any tariffs if that happens. Just wondering where folks in the USA stand... Thanks |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Kris01 on 03/31/17 at 18:31:43 In all honesty, it wouldn't make much difference to me. If I liked a certain bike enough to buy it, then I would. I didn't buy a Suzuki because it's a Suzuki. I bought my S40 for other reasons. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/31/17 at 19:17:02 Buell seemed to do well with the Blast. The key to the entry level bike market is to have an interesting line of motorcycles to upgrade to. Polaris could become such a company, however they are working their way backwards. I'm always willing to pay more for quality. I get so angry when I see sub-600 cc bikes with garbage suspension, brakes and features. I'd gladly pay more for quality components, because I'm gonna upgrade them anyway. Just look at the small car market. 20-30 years ago small car = cheap car. Today you can purchase small cars that carry all of the equipment and features of luxury cars. The market was created by customer demand and smart manufacturers answered the call. Yes, I would consider a small bike made in the USA that had high-end components, and would be willing to pay for what I get. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by raydawg on 03/31/17 at 19:31:21 2A20242E252C28217F797D4D0 wrote:
Thanks for a very thought provoking reply Gary! Indeed, small cars had a major hurdle to shed the stigma attached to them for many years. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Dave on 04/01/17 at 03:25:47 I hate to admit it.....but I am a bargain bike buyer. Unless I win a lottery........I seriously doubt that I will ever buy a new motorcycle at a dealership. Good used "like new" motorcycles can be purchased for a half what they cost new. Reliable bikes that have a bit more wear are even cheaper to buy. If I found a used Harley or Indian or Buell (or some other American built bike that I liked at a bargain price)......I would buy it. I do try to buy US made when possible - but sometimes you just don't have much option anymore. Most stores just don't stock US made products.....go to a home improvement store and try to find a US made lighting fixture or ceiling fan. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by bobert_FSO on 04/01/17 at 06:11:55 I agree with Kris01. I buy stuff based on the format and features I need and want. Where it is made is not a big deal to me, although I generally look at American manufacturers first. If they don't have what I'm looking for, I move on. Another point is that I usually buy stuff (especially toys like motorcycles and musical instruments) used. That often limits my choices to what is available, not necessarily where it was made. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Papa Bear on 04/01/17 at 06:33:14 I buy things based on "value" (quality/price) and need (vs WANT) I also try to live comfortably beneath my means. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by HAPPYDAN on 04/01/17 at 08:29:46 My answer is absolutely YES. An example: I have recently purchased a new Taylor guitar made in California. It's a fantastic instrument, plays and sounds great. NOT cheap. So what. I could have purchased a Chinese-made guitar, similar in style, for a third the price, but I am proud to own an American icon, world famous for quality. It can, and has been done. Look at Zero electric motorcycles in California. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by raydawg on 04/01/17 at 08:38:50 Ok, seems fit/needs comes first, makes sense, then we find the product that will satisfy that need. It looks like then, all things being equal at that point, allegiance to point of manufacturing earns a concern then. You know last year I bought my wife a new car from the dealer. I looked at many, for the last purchase I made was in 2005, when I bought a new Ford truck from the dealer. One thing I found interesting is some of the dealers listed what percentage of the car was made where.... Only one of about 10 or so we looked at had a 100% manufactured in one country. It was a Toyota Preius. Oh how that small car perception and made in Japan has changed, eh >:( |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by SALB on 04/01/17 at 09:08:46 If all else was equal, I might shell out a little extra for an American bike. The problem is, the only American bikes built right now are V-twin cruisers (with the exception of the Indian Scout). |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by springman on 04/01/17 at 12:37:19 I'm with Dave on this one. I'm a bargain hunter and there are bargains to be had out there. I like to buy American where I can but cannot afford to pay more for items of equal value just because one was made in the USA. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by mpescatori on 04/01/17 at 12:59:48 73707367717977120 wrote:
Then you have a problem. The US motorcycle industry is stuck with one staple idea in mind: - big bore, slow revving V-twin engine, - big, heavy, "feet forward" cruiser position and frame of mind. No dual sports, no lightweight Street bikes, no crotch rockets. No vertical twins, triples, fours. No change since the Harley F-head other than improving an age-old design. It's like riding a dinosaur with sneakers and a baseball cap. Looks like a teenager but handles like my grandpa. Either someone Forks out real fast a NEW bike, or used bikes will increase in price as new bikes will have import taxes levvied on them. Europe can live without Harleys... can the US live without japanese and european imports? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by jcstokes on 04/01/17 at 14:29:41 All three motorcycles I've owned were brought new. Jawa 634, Suzuki GN 250, and the S40. Mind you all were cheap bikes, the Jawa was half the price of a Honda CB 350 in 1976. I certainly won't be spending $NZ ten to forty thousand on an Indian or Harley or for that matter a Ducati or BMW. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/01/17 at 17:24:59 54495C4A5A584D564B50390 wrote:
I think that the Indian FTR750 will evolve into a street bike. If so it will be a proper "street fighter" type bike with an up-right seating position and feet somewhere between the knee and but. It wont be cheap. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by gizzo on 04/02/17 at 03:42:53 I'd pay more for a locally made bike if it were good quality and met my needs. can't see It happening though. everyone wants something for nothing or they "deserve" an imported machine. I've been an enthusiast and buyer of our local car maker ( Holden) since I was old enough to dig cars. they're finishing up local manufacturer later this year, unfortunately. localcar buyers have bought into the "imported is better, local product is notgood enough" crap. bogans used to drive holden and Ford, now they all "deserve" an Audi or.bmw. That includes the workers at the plant. precious few of them own the product they build. so, Holden is becoming a reseller of imported and rebranded SE Asian compacts. Australia's muscle car is dead. oh yeah: I drive a Holden. . |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by oldNslow on 04/02/17 at 06:16:56 Quote:
I'd like to see that happen, but it's going to take some pretty significant re-engineering of that motor. The FTR has no starter, removable external flywheels, a right side shift, four speed gearbox, chain final drive,and no provision for valve adjustment except grinding the inside of the buckets to set the clearance for each valve. And of course it doesn't have to meet the emission and noise standards that a street bike engine needs to meet. The FTR is a very different motor than the motor in the Scouts. It's not made in the US either.I's made in Switzerland. I'm not saying that Polaris couldn't do what was needed to make a production version.I'm sure they could. I question whether they would decide that such a bike would be a commercial success though. I wouldn't be too surprised to see an FTR STYLED Scout sometime down the road. Using the existing Scout motor, Standard riding position. redesigned tins and paint, maybe even a different frame. Something akin to the Harley' XR1200 of a few years ago, which was as close as HD ever came to building a street bike that somewhat resembled the XR750 flat track bike. Such a bike would still be pretty heavy compared to a real "streetfighter" though. I don't know how much an FTR weighs, but the minimum weight for a Flat Track Twin is 310 pounds. I'm sure Indian got the race bike as close to that as they could. No way that's ever going to happen with a street version. http://www.cycleworld.com/indian-motorcycle-ftr750-dirt-track-race-engine-exclusive-technical-preview http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/import/embedded/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Harley-Davidson-XR1200-Best-Used-Bikes-590x393.jpg?itok=NBP0NiT2 |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by raydawg on 04/02/17 at 17:20:45 Well it will be interesting to see if talk of keeping and bringing manufacturing back to the states happens, its products, and cost, etc. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by mpescatori on 04/03/17 at 08:22:56 122C2D21332F2E400 wrote:
My point exactly. "An FTR - styled Scout" with a Scout engine, frame, riding position... just "go faster" paint and maybe flat-track handlebars. That's exactly my point. Ditch the "Street Rod" concept, keep the engine, create something credible. No, not this... http://https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SsRMmq1gAyA/hqdefault.jpg THIS ! http://thekneeslider.com/images/2011/08/bimota-hdb2-530x367.jpg Create a Sportster-based dual sports ! http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/dual-sport-motorcycle-1.jpg ...or even a Dyna-based sports tourer http://images.moto.it/images/299266/HOR_STD/1000x/swap.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CAjmCEXkjVs/VNNFwgUR_lI/AAAAAAAAPE0/tfzmRfv24ww/s1600/IMG_5263.jpg (pictured: mid 1980's Moto Guzzi 1000 SPiii and mid 1980's FXRT) As you can see, HD did have good ideas in the past, but they were "the same old engine and frame" with new bits added. What I dould like to see is, for example, the 1250cc Street Rod firebreather engine on a specific, "screape your knees to the bone" frame and enough kudos to look at Ducatis, BMWs and Triumph square in the eyes... http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2011/Essai_Moto_Guzzi_1200_Norge_GT_8v/Moto_Guzzi_1200_Norge_GT_8v_st2pz.jpghttp://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2011/Essai_Moto_Guzzi_1200_Norge_GT_8v/Moto_Guzzi_1200_Norge_GT_8v_st3pz.jpg Is it really so difficult...? |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by oldNslow on 04/03/17 at 09:25:30 That Sportster dual sport is pretty neat, but the sportster motor is still way too heavy, no matter what kind of bike you build around it. I think a better place for HD to start would be with the new motor out of the Street series. Something like this: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/images/2017/03/h-d_rdx800_concept.jpg?itok=5ZyfP3o6 Still not a lightweight, but a least headed in the right direction. I don't have any idea what HDs sales are like in EU countries, but I suspect they are going to have a pretty tough time making the air cooled engines compliant as the EU emission regs get stricter and stricter. I think we are going to see a completely liquid cooled big twin in the near future. Some of the newer big twins are partly liquid cooled now. Another option would be to migrate the VROD engine into the bigger bikes. The evo Sportsters may disappear altogether in those markets, possibly replaced with some version of the Revolution motor from the Street line with more ccs. Or maybe they won't bother. The last sales figures I saw, from the 2nd quarter last year, said that HD had almost 50% of the new motorcycle market share in the US. Everyone else divvied up the other 50%. The Street models are supposed to be doing pretty well in India also, even though they aren't setting the world on fire here. As long as the US motorcycle emission regs don't change, and I don't think they will as long as Trump is the President, HD might be content to tweak the models they've got to make them EU compliant for as long as they can, and let it go at that. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Dave on 04/03/17 at 09:35:39 If we are dreaming about our Sportster based fantasies......... http://i68.tinypic.com/142ybtf.jpg |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/17 at 13:22:47 It's not a question of American or Foreign, it's whether it's in my price range, will do what I want after I get through with it. The more it costs new, the longer I have to wait for it. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by philthymike on 04/03/17 at 13:40:07 To me American made does not equal good quality. All of the expensive US made appliances in the kitchen are as unreliable and cheaply made as the Chinese ones slowly replacing them (for less money). Here in Philly our regional rail trains (SEPTA) had a recall of their new fleet of 300 Silverliner V train cars because of faulty suspension parts. This made my commute horrible last summer. Everybody was going off about the fact the trains are Hyundai products and that in itself somehow explained the quality control problem. Turns out the trucks (where the faulty parts were located) were manufactured here in the US using US steel by a US company which then installed them on the Hyundai train cars. I can think of enough examples similar to this which lead me to say no, I won't pay extra for locally made anything. We wouldn't have to be creating jobs here if we hadn't off-shored them all to begin with. |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Kris01 on 04/03/17 at 17:47:32 Dave, I think you forgot to include something in your post. Is there a bike in that pic? :-? ;D |
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Title: Re: Would you pay more? Post by Dave on 04/04/17 at 04:33:21 053C273D7E7F4E0 wrote:
If you look long enough....you can find it! |
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