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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam chain installation /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1488507919 Message started by mkelee on 03/02/17 at 18:25:19 |
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Title: Cam chain installation Post by mkelee on 03/02/17 at 18:25:19 I am really close to getting my motor back together, i had to wait on a new C Ring for my head, but now its here. The issue im having is getting the cam chain onto the the cam shaft. Does anyone have tips or tricks for getting this done? Thank you o2n advanced! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by Ruttly on 03/02/17 at 20:02:26 I had trouble too , just don't force anything ! Read the manual then read it again ! I am unable to explain how. You have to be smarter than the chain & gear ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by Dave on 03/03/17 at 03:28:27 Don't attach the sprocket to the cam. You have to get the chain on the lower sprocket, then get the upper sprocket on, then insert the cam into the upper sprocket. It will take a few tries most likely....as you won't have the timing correct on the first try. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/17 at 07:36:35 And the lines on the cam sprocket line up with the top of the head, and the oil pump drive gear Can be installed backwards, easily, and it's not okay to do that. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by verslagen1 on 03/03/17 at 09:06:13 With a used chain, the forward side will be slightly raised. Visually check the oil pump gear, it will be mostly engaged. When reversed, less than half will be engaged. Also check that you didn't drop the pin by trying to rotate the gear. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/03/17 at 12:59:48 This seems to be pretty close to the topic so I will ask. When a new timing chain has been installed, how far into the cam chain tensioner body does the plunger go? In other words when full extended to properly push against the chain, how much of the plunger is actually in the tensioner body? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/17 at 20:49:43 Kinda depends on the condition of the guides. But generally speaking, it's out a lot farther than you'd expect. I got mine from Reelthing with somewhere around 3,000 miles. He had already put a Versy in and had it on the second hole. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by Dave on 03/04/17 at 03:22:11 I had my side cover off when the bike only had 1,200 miles on it, and the plunger was out 13mm. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 07:33:18 09323F2839352E28333B36295A0 wrote:
When you say out 13mm, are you referring to the distance from the end of the outer housing (aluminum) out to the first edge of the plunger (largest dia. of plunger) ? I.e. not out to the hole or someplace like that? Thanks so much for your reply! I haven't had mine apart yet, but planning to at the next oil change in approx. 3 weeks, so I am not sure where mine is at all right now! I purchased it about 5 months ago, with approx 5,600 miles on it, and have put on approx. 2,000 since. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/17 at 07:48:02 You should probably just go ahead and get a Versy unless you can do the mods yourself. With the miles you have and the way it's built, it should go on in easy enough. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/04/17 at 08:06:23 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
Not to undo the Versy, but I actually purchased a new chain adjuster, and did the mods myself on a CNC machine. Kudos to Versy for putting in the original thoughts and work to make it better than a new one. I only made a few changes from his. I put the slot into the inner slide, and threaded the outer body and use a screw in order to keep the slide from extending itself out of the body. I admit having a more difficult time in working the extra spring thing, but think I have got it down (maybe). I didn't want to impose on Mr. Verslager as I know he does the upgrade for a little extra income and I didn't think it fair for me to pick his brain. I am NOT, however, interested in getting into doing the mods myself in competition with him. He has a nice thing going and deserves the business! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by Dave on 03/04/17 at 10:11:20 The 13mm I measured is the distance from the aluminum body to the end of the smooth/round/machined portion of the plunger....where is begins to taper to make the flat area where the guide bolts on. At 20mm it is recommended that you do something....as it is about to come apart. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by verslagen1 on 03/04/17 at 11:26:13 7D646869606263796F786E666874680D0 wrote:
Cool, love to see your adaptations. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/17 at 21:49:35 Well, if you're not gonna need the old one, Verslagen might want it. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 07:10:05 Here I go with the pics and some description: I guess one can only upload one pic per Reply. This is the whole assy. together. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 07:19:32 Here is pic #2: My mods were these. I wanted to put the slot in the plunger rather than in the body. The plunger is hardeded, so I did have a problem with a small end mill holding up. But it did. The screw in the body is an 8-32 Button socket head, allow so equivalent to a Grade 5. It engages in the slot. The secondary spring hole (approx. .255 Dia) was drilled down through the existing plunger hole down into the mounting hole. I then placed the spring in there, and then put a washer which has a beveled edge in flat against the bottom of the plunger hole. I then drilled and tapped two side holes at a crucial spot so that the cone pointed 6-32 set screws would "lock" on the bevel of the washer. My real problem was the secondary spring. I had to experiment to get one strong enough to overcome the strength of the original spring when there was nearly full engagement, but not too strong that would be equivalent to a solid. Although I had some variations, keep in mind that the basic concepts were already figured out by Mr. Verslagen who deserves the kudos! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 08:30:34 That's some good looking work. How Out of Round did you make the hole? Did you check out a spring from the stock petcock? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by verslagen1 on 03/05/17 at 08:58:14 Yep, that looks good. I'll send to you to put the back side spring in. 8-) what spring did you use? |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 14:54:53 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
I tried to determine ovality of mount hole based upon the pics I saw and then tried to use proportion to a known dimension to determine what had been done before. But, I settled on going .050" out of round but only on the side closest to the "front" of the body. In my little test fixture, it seemed adequate, but that will be determined by the use in the bike, i.e. just how much does it really need to spring back when the engine cools down, then heats up again? I am not sure. However, anything would be better and cause less wear on the cam chain than nothing as the original had! No I hadn't checked any spring like that. I had wanted to ask Mr. Verslagen what he had used and what length he had cut it, but I felt that I might be stepping on his toes and thought that he might be offended if I asked. What I did was to go to my local Ace hardware, where they have a pretty huge bin full of springs of all sorts of sizes and shapes and uses. I picked out a handful and then tried each one. It had to be stronger than the main spring, when the plunger is inserted as far as it needs to go on a new cam chain. I settled on one at a certain length. I also had to make sure that it didn't "coil bind" - that is squeeze down to where the coils were closed up. I don't know much about springs in an engineering way, except for the fact that they have a known spring rate. The spring exerts so much pressure the first inch of travel, then more pressure each subsequent inch. Also, thanks for the compliment. I am no one special, I just enjoy doing things for myself just to feel good! I think that it makes me take more pride in my bike and I certainly feel more pleasurable as I ride. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 14:57:39 5C4F5859464B4D4F441B2A0 wrote:
See above response I gave to JOG about spring. It was no special one but just one I tried from Ace hardware. I was hoping that you might have a suggestion for one - one that has an exact part number from wherever you get yours, but I didn't feel right asking. You are the expert! I am the novice! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 15:13:31 I THINK that all that is necessary , at most, is the pitch of a tooth on the tensioner. That particular idea hasn't been being tested long enough to prove that it increases the miles the cam chain will go before the tensioner is at full extension. It's just an idea Being tested. I plan on giving it a go in about another ten thousand miles. If it's a bust, don't blame Verslagen. No, scratch that... He Agreed that it sounded good. I think .050 is plenty. How did you oval the hole? I have a drill press and an X Y axis rotating vise. I'll hafta pick up a mill bit for that and I don't think the Verslavy Reelthing got was with the Anti-Gut Spitting roll pin, so I will install some kinda stopper. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by piedmontbuckeye on 03/05/17 at 15:32:54 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
I did everything on a CNC Machining center. I programmed it on the computer. I used a 1/4" end mill, (the hole is .312 or 8mm) and used what is called a helix bore at the location .050 to the right of original center. It did the rest. As for whether the spring will help it certainly couldn't hurt. As long as nothing comes apart! I plan on putting mine in the bike in a few weeks or so, when I decide to change oil. I will need to get a new side case gasket before then! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/17 at 16:40:56 A rough outline of the side cover with an Xacto knife slot where each bolt goes will make keeping the various lengths and which ones have the sealing washer in order. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by mkelee on 03/15/17 at 17:47:04 I appreciate all the help and insight. I was able to get the tensioner on after a few tries and a couple days break. I'm unsure about the timing, so until I get that correct, I've taken the tensioner off. If anyone can help me out with what needs to be in line with what, as far as markings go, that would be great. I haven't found anything on this sight yet, but I'm going to keep looking. I also do not have a manual, otherwise i wouldn't be asking for help on this. Thanks to everyone who has been on this feed, its been keeping me thinking about options. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/17 at 18:19:06 Engine at TDC, cam lobes away from the lifters, lines on cam gear line up with the top of the head. If the front of the line is high, that is from the chain stretch. Fine tuning is possible. It's not technically difficult. I just can't remember all of it. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by mkelee on 03/15/17 at 20:38:08 425D5B5C41467747774F5D511A280 wrote:
This was a huge help. Simple and to the point. Thank you! |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/17 at 20:49:25 Gotta check the crank timing marks inside the left side case plug. Easy to overtighten. Don't. Hard to get loose. Antisieze is a good idea. If you're not getting it off , holler back before you goober it up. Check your marks before you button it up. I put a breaker bar on the end of the crank. |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by mkelee on 03/16/17 at 18:43:49 I got it all squared away. Everything is lined up as best as i could get it. Thanks again for tue help. Im just about to torque everything on the top end |
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Title: Re: Cam chain installation Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/16/17 at 21:05:51 Better to find a drop of oil in a week than a stripped thread today. |
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