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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> DIY forward controls /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1487544708 Message started by Stefinstein on 02/19/17 at 14:51:47 |
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Title: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/19/17 at 14:51:47 Hello and welcome, Like many of you savage owners I like to modify my thumper to my own tastes in style and comfort. I have recently been looking to find any kind of plans, how to's, drawings, or forum pages on how make your own forward controls. But, as all of us already know we are very limited to the options we have for parts in the retail market. Being a ticketed welder and fabricator and an experienced leather worker I am always looking for the next thing I can build myself, and the next thing on my list is stretching my legs (as I'm sure many of you can agree). Now I, and many of you, are faced with the options of outrageous prices/limited availability from small runs done my forum members/building your own set from scratch. So, here's my proposal; That this page be used be used for an open source of information on how to make your own forward controls, a collaborative thread for forum members who can offer their ideas/experience/dimensions/drawings/pictures to the forum readers. I've been doing much research on the matter and scoured for as many good reference pictures as I can to break them down into a readable drawing. However, being that most of these are pictures are from kits built and sold by a current forum member (Ed), I would like to ask him first if he would be willing to contribute to the page. Would Ed be willing to share his hole layout? Simply put its a couple of plates with holes in them, the plate can be any shape but the holes are fixed to the angle and length you want them. I have found from the many pictures I have broken down that once the length has been decided that most of the holes are fixed to their locations, but the angle on which these holes sit varies from kit to kit. This difference is any where from 35-45 degrees. Maybe someone can confirm this angle, but I would assume this is either design differences or to account for lost ground clearance if your front forks are shortened. I will attach a couple sample drawings (when I transfer them to PC) of the right side extension plate to show the kind of differences in angle I have mentioned, the cutout in the drawings are based off the cutout on Ed's plates as I have not pulled my controls for measurements yet. I am eager to see the responses this page will get. Hopefully with the collective help of the people reading this we can create the ground works for anyone attempting this feat. Thanks for your time and your contributions in advance! |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/19/17 at 14:58:01 Pic 1 |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/19/17 at 14:58:30 Pic2 |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/20/17 at 15:19:17 So after cutting both templates out and holding them each in position; ~The 45 degree pattern looks to be closer to parallel with the frame under the engine. Maybe someone else can confirm this, but with my particular frame this angle looks like 43 degrees when I hold a bevel square up to the bolts. ~The 35 degree pattern raises the pedal location and the bottom of the plate has about a 8-10 degree rise from the frame under the engine. This would look less extreme with shortened forks. Now just visualizing the geometry, the farther your pegs are away from the frame more leverage is added. So when your forks are compressed you limit the ground clearance to the peg at a much quicker rate. The length of your forks seam to play a big role in the angle you choose on your extension. Performance wise 35 degrees would make more sense for the added ground clearance to the pegs which some people lose when they shorten their forks (roughly half of your fork height drop). Which to some might not be much but for the performance thumping bobber nuts out there that live for the twisties, they want to drag knuckles on the dragon so every bit counts. In stock height configuration however 45 degrees just looks too low and anymore than 4" might be cause for concern. I'm going to draw out another template at 40 degrees and see how that looks when held in place. I'll post a picture before cutting it out. |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/20/17 at 16:31:38 So I cut it out before I got a chance to snap a picture, but here's a shot of all three templates stacked on top of each other to show the difference made by the angle alone. Top/middle/bottom = 35*/40*/45* |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by DaveLKN on 02/20/17 at 20:08:10 Subscribed- I don't have anything to add but I'm interested in the outcome...Thanks for your effort on this. |
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Title: Re: Open source DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/20/17 at 21:00:20 Good to have you aboard DaveLKN. Any input helps whether it's questions, comments, thoughts, concerns, or ideas. I'd like to get a good brainstorm going. Don't be shy savage owners! |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Kris01 on 02/21/17 at 17:42:40 I'm enjoying your DIY posts! |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/21/17 at 20:41:20 Thanks Kris, I'm hoping it sparks some interest with the community because there realy is no available guidelines on the process. I'm going to lift my bike this week and pull the controls so I can get some accurate measurements because as of now these are just guesstimates. I have just thrown a caliber to the centres of the bolts for reference. Does anyone know these dimensions off hand? Bolt size? Bolt spacing? |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Kenny G on 02/21/17 at 20:45:07 Stefin, While you are at the controls how about a design for mid controls like the Brit bikes and the Universal Jap Bikes have? Kenny G :-/ |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by ohiomoto on 02/22/17 at 05:27:08 5A747F5263706279110 wrote:
------------------------- I'm getting ready to do my mids soon. I think I'm making a Ryca style mount and using Yamaha XS 400 pegs going forward from there. But if someone wants to open source some DYI plans.... |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/22/17 at 08:50:03 Kenny G, ohiomoto- I haven't put much thought into a mid setup only because it's not the style I'm going for. However, after looking at the RYCA "rearset bracket" I find it appalling that this company charges $330 for this (raw) and an extra $50 to powder coat. It's literally $.50 worth of steel.....robbery anyone? The thing better be made of titanium and ultrasound tested for that price. Once I complete the forward controls, I'd be willing pull some measurements and draft some plans for a mid control bracket for you guys. Then you can put down the complementary tub of RYCA Vaseline. Hopefully at that point you guys can take the reins from there as I won't actually be making any for my current pony. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Kenny G on 02/22/17 at 09:18:09 Stefin, If I have proper drawerings I can either make the mount or have someone do it for me. I am thinking the toughest part will be the linkage for the rear brake. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/22/17 at 09:44:01 Kenny G- I will make a new thread for this so as not to mix up the two different projects. I think having both of these on one page might get a bit confusing. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Kenny G on 02/22/17 at 10:15:40 Good Idea Stefin |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/23/17 at 11:25:21 So I managed to throw a doodle together for the left peg. Bare in mind that all of these drawings only show the formula and parameters That I am following, the measurements are *not confirmed* as I have not taken my controls off yet. This drawing is a bit crowded (sorry) so edges have been gone over in blue pen to minimize the confusion. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 02/23/17 at 19:29:28 Your left side plate will need a relief for the kick stand spring along the bottom. If you want some more tips let me know, I would hate to ruin the fun of having you figuring it out on your own. ;) |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Stefinstein on 02/24/17 at 10:54:17 Ed- Thank you for joining the thread, I will take as many tips/tricks/insights/dimensions/angles you'd like to share. The designs are all just in the draft stage for now I also can't measure the axle location properly until I get the to back side of the peg plates. In the picture of the left side template I have a 3/4" hole for a relief. Again, I haven't taken the controls of as of yet but I have roughly measured the clearance from the outside of the bottom extension hole to be 9/16" (marked as 19mm) does this sound about right? Thanks for any light you can shed on the matter. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 04/11/18 at 04:21:06 Sorry to wake this old thread, but I am dead curious to know how things turned out. DIY is the way to go. I also refuse to pay $$$$ for a simple piece of metal. :) |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Dave on 04/11/18 at 04:24:28 06273A3C203F27272C480 wrote:
Anyone who has tried to make this stuff for others soon realizes the metal isn't very costly - it is the "hours" of work it takes to transform the metal into something useful. Savage parts cannot be mass produced by large companies profitably, so there is a lot of manual labor involved by fellows working in small shops with small tools. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 04/11/18 at 04:39:58 5F64697E6F63787E656D607F0C0 wrote:
Anyone who has tried to make this stuff for others soon realizes it is not the metal isn't very costly - it is the "hours" of work it takes to transform the metal into something useful. [/quote] I wont disagree with you on that Dave. But the price tag is very high for a piece of low-tech mechanics. That was my point :) In my end of the world it's no less than $600. But I'm more interested in Stefinsteins finished controls. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by mz250 on 04/12/18 at 01:15:06 68535E4958544F49525A57483B0 wrote:
Anyone who has tried to make this stuff for others soon realizes it is not the metal isn't very costly - it is the "hours" of work it takes to transform the metal into something useful. Savage parts cannot be mass produced by large companies profitably, so there is a lot of manual labor involved by fellows working in small shops with small tools. [/quote] Not when you have access to a laser cutter ;) |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 04/13/18 at 18:10:26 Laser cutters can't weld or cut threads, there is more to it than it looks. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Chip 2010 on 04/13/18 at 19:23:33 95% of the cost is in the labor, cutting and welding namely. If I had my own shear and a plasma cutter, and a welder... my forward floorboard project would be much less costly. At present I'm trying to come up with a good way to line up the frame tube hole (the short bolt, not the two long ones that run all the way through the frame/engine case) so that I can mark it and drill it without having to put the left side plate on, mark the hole, remove it, drill the hole, then put it back on. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by mz250 on 04/14/18 at 00:49:03 49685340220C0 wrote:
Can do thats as well |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 04/14/18 at 10:25:12 mz250, I'm glad to see you know so much about developing,manufacturing, packaging, shipping, providing support and everything else involved in the production of the forward controls. I've had this discussion many times before and have found that the reality of producing something from raw materials to a finished end user friendly item takes a lot more time than most people expect. If you could take he time could you sit down and list all the different steps needed from raw materials to finished product including purchasing the aluminum, steel and hardware, welding, machining, finish grinding, painting ( don't forget buying the paint) packaging and shipping, basically the whole ball of wax, and you might see that it really isn't as easy as you might think it is. Oh I also forgot maintenance and repairs on the machines used in the process and purchasing disposables like abrasives. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 04/15/18 at 04:58:45 Easy guys. I never intended to start a flame war. I do acknowledge labor is a big part of the expense, but here the prices compares to a weeks salary or more. That is crazy. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 04/15/18 at 15:28:17 I'm not interested in starting a flame war, just trying to express what it takes to produce the forward control kits. When the material costs and time are factored in I'm making under $20.00 per hour for my effort. Northwood, check you PM box for some build tips on DIY forward controls. Ed |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by IslandRoad on 04/15/18 at 15:48:02 5C7D465537190 wrote:
I bet that is $20 per/hr for production only. There's no way that could cover the initial investment of hours in research and development! |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by IslandRoad on 04/15/18 at 15:52:31 I'll offer one small tip. You will need to consider the length and routing of the kickstand kill switch, if you want to maintain it's functionality. I cut a small notch in the bottom of the left plate on a set of EdL's 4" controls to accommodate the wire. Fortunately, there was enough slack in the stock wire to reach the new location of the switch. The wire does hang down a little bit in a small loop, but after a few months of riding it is still intact. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 04/15/18 at 16:01:35 Good point, I bypassed the kickstand switch, it has a history of malfunctioning. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Dave on 04/16/18 at 04:00:39 7B5A6172103E0 wrote:
Does that include the time it takes for you to respond to emails and orders, box up the parts and take them to the Post Office? (Probably not). |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 04/16/18 at 04:57:21 6342796A08260 wrote:
My guess; you are not in it for the money :) I read your PM and I sent you a reply. Interesting reading, thank you. Losing the kick stand switch wont break or make the deal. Its nice to have but I dont think I will miss it. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Blade on 06/02/18 at 07:04:55 . |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Blade on 06/02/18 at 07:26:00 . |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Ed L. on 06/03/18 at 16:00:17 Looks good how did you mount the kickstand? |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by KY Bluegrass on 06/03/18 at 19:00:43 Just a thought. In my business I have clients ask if they can get this or that done. At times their desires are pretty unrealistic. My usual response is "we can do pretty much anything you want....if your pockets are deep enough and you aren't in a hurry" I also find that some clients want to make a reasonable profit, but apparently think their vendors, like me, don't need to. Some think the only thing they are paying us for is the physical cost of the product. Not my time or expertise or the years I spent getting to this level of expertise. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Blade on 06/04/18 at 02:55:11 Ed, I placed the kickstand in position, marked out the boltholes then drilled the plate and bolted the kickstand on. I used 10mm aluminium and it is strong enough not to need bracing between left and right plates. Build details are: EXTENDING FORWARD CONTROLS FOR THE SAVAGE PARTS NEEDED: CONTROLS SET 10 MM ALUMINIUM PLATE (OR THINNER STEEL PLATE AS LONG AS NO FLEX) 16” LINK ROD AND SWIVEL ENDS 12” LINKAGE ROD AND SWIVEL END 1” HEAVY PIPE BRAKET PLATE TO MATCH PIPE BRACKET STAINLESS RIGGING PLATE (OR STEEL EQUIVALENT) THREADED ROD (CAN BE STAINLESS) STIFF WIRE NUTS AND BOLTS TO SUIT STEPS: 1. SUPPORT THE BIKE, REMOVE THE KICKSTAND 2. REMOVE CLUTCH PEDAL, PEG, CLUTCH ROD AND MOUNTING PLATE 3. REMOVE BRAKE PEDAL, PEG AND MOUNTING PLATE 4. REMOVE BRAKE CABLE AND ROD CONNECTED TO BRAKE DRUM 5. CUT NEW MOUNTING PLATES FROM 10 MM ALUMINIUM PLATE 6. DRILL OUT HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS AND NEW PEGS 7. BOLT PLATES TO FRAME 8. MOUNT NEW PEGS AND LEVERS 9. CONNECT A 12” ROD BETWEEN THE CLUTCH PEDAL AND CLUTCH USING EXISTING CLUTCH CLAMP 10. SPOT WELD A 1” PIPE BRACKET (SPRINKLER PIPE) TO THE BIKE FRAME 11. BOLT A STEEL PLATE TO THE BRACKET AND MOUNT A CENTRE BOLT AS PIVOT POINT 12. ALTERNATIVELY FOR STEPS 9 + 10 – WELD A PIVOT BOLT DIRECTLY TO THE FRAME BEHIND OIL WINDOW 13. LOOSLEY BOLT A PIVOT PLATE TO THIS PLATE (STAINLESS RONSTAN RIGGING PLATE FROM SHIP CHANDLERY) 14. CONNECT A 16” ROD FROM THE BRAKE PEDAL TO THE PIVOT PLATE 15. CONNECT A 24” THREADED ROD FROM THE PIVOT PLATE TO THE BRAKE USING JOINING ADAPTER AND EXISTING BRAKE NUT 16. REMOVE THE BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH 17. MOUNT THE SWITCH WITH A 20MM WRAP AROUND CLAMP BOLTED TO THE BIKE FRAME 18. CONNECT THE SWITCH LEVER TO THE PIVOT PLATE WITH A SHORT STIFF WIRE 19. ADJUST LOCKING NUT ON THE BRAKE END OF THE THREADED ROD FOR CORRECT BRAKE ACTION 20. DRILL LEFT PLATE AND MOUNT KICKSTAND I have photos of each part and step, let me know if you need any posted. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 06/04/18 at 06:46:05 That looks pretty cool, Blade. Why did you choose aftermarket controls? My frame is out for powder coating at the moment. Cant do anything before it returns. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Blade on 06/04/18 at 22:10:41 Northwood, I decided that while I had the controls off I may as well put on a set that matched my hand grips. I went with these: |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Blade on 06/05/18 at 01:26:41 These controls "push" rather than "pull" the brake rod, so I made up this push-me-pull-you to change the direction: |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 06/05/18 at 07:06:01 7B55585D5C390 wrote:
Wow thats some serious money. Waaay too expensive for me. I am stucked on stock :) Nice little detail on the pull-push brake configuration. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by SavageMan99 on 06/09/18 at 20:30:47 Any word on mid controls? Are you selling the plates? |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Northwood on 06/12/18 at 02:25:18 1B293E292F2D0529267171480 wrote:
Who are you addressing, SavageMan99? |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by SavageMan99 on 06/12/18 at 10:37:51 Whoever can help me lose the all in one peg / lever / brake / shifter / kickstand controls. I'd like have a twin leg stand under the bike, so it sits straight on the stand. I'd also like plain foot pegs. I'm going for a plain look. Painted parts suit me better. |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Jody72 on 08/10/18 at 20:02:20 :) |
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Title: Re: DIY forward controls Post by Jody72 on 08/23/20 at 08:23:06 :) |
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