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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Dial-A-Jet /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1485984139 Message started by Arcreefer on 02/01/17 at 13:22:18 |
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Title: Dial-A-Jet Post by Arcreefer on 02/01/17 at 13:22:18 Not sure this is where to post this, but just wanted to thank "Lancer" for the new VM 36 carb with U.F.O. & Dial-A-Jet and highly recommend the U.F.O. & D.A.J. combo for extreme altitude changes. Last weekend I took the bike from sea level to over 10,000' elevation. Stopped once to adjust the D.A.J., took less than 5 minutes, bike ran awesome all the way to the top. The pic is of Haleakala Hwy holds the world record for climbing to the highest elevation (over 10,000') in the shortest distance of 38 miles. Lots of twisties! Thanks Lancer! |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Dave on 02/01/17 at 13:56:26 The Road looks fun.....what happened to the trees? :-? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by verslagen1 on 02/01/17 at 14:23:56 Quote:
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by LANCER on 02/01/17 at 14:29:47 Fun stuff, eh ? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by verslagen1 on 02/01/17 at 14:39:39 I still waiting for the bridge to be built. :-? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/02/17 at 04:14:26 Yup UFO,Quad Flow Wing and I upgraded to Intelajet on my vm36. Acceleration and a killer midrange punch. So much fun to ride !!! My bike would eat that road up ! |
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Title: Dial-A-Jet: how does it work? Post by mpescatori on 02/02/17 at 05:08:07 Would anyone please explain how it works? I have pictured of an old phone dialer bolted to the handlebars... ;D No, really, I need to understand if th Dial-a-Jet is operable while ON the bike or if I have to stop and tune it by the roadside... Also, if it works on any CV or flat slide carb or what. I might decide to get one for the Savage (Mikuni BST40) or perhaps one for the Dyna as well (which currently runs on the stock Keihin 36 but has a Mikuni flat slide 42 lurking... heheheh...) Else, I was considering bar-mounted choke levers in order to adjust the carburation for altitude. http://vintage-motorcycle.com/image.php?image=762dsc00663.jpg&width=425 Imagine you live at sea level and plan a long trip somewhere up high: the trick would be to adjust carburation for... 5000ft. and gradually pull the choke maybe 1/16th inch as you go back down to sea level. All you need is to set reference notches so you have "0 sea level, 2000ft., 4000ft., 6000ft reference notches, and you relieve the choke as you climb. I saw this on a Swiss-registered Guzzi waaay back in 1975-6 or thereabouts, the guy was riding with the choke half.pulled and explained the trick to me. Genius !!! Who needs fuel injection ? :D http://www.classicbikepartscheshire.com/control-levers-spares-c122/choke-air-mag-levers-c124/vincent-t26 (Now... imagine you could also advance/retard ignition for air temperature/altitude/fuel quality... that's what the second lever is for ! ;) ) |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Dave on 02/02/17 at 07:02:00 Dial-a-jet mounts on the carb body and has a small wheel for the adjustment.....it most likely would be hard to reach and adjust the little wheel while you are in motion. Intel-a-jet has a remote adjustment wheel that can be mounted in a place that you can reach and adjust while in motion. https://thunderproducts.com/ |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by MMRanch on 02/02/17 at 08:06:06 I'm having difficulty understanding how this could work . I looked at the units on the link and my first guess is the device adds air to the fuel bowl . A needle valve closing off some of the jet would do , if ya started with a oversize jet ... Am I the only one ? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by LANCER on 02/02/17 at 15:19:18 17051705081B1419125A0 wrote:
Michael, the DAJ does not add air to the bowl but pulls fuel from the bowl when needed. When installing the DAJ you reduce the main jet size by 3 sizes. This enables the DAJ to function and supply just the right amount of fuel when ever a deficit is signaled to the DAJ. The main jet basically begins its function at 1/2 throttle. The DAJ supplies fuel in a more controlled fashion and in smaller particles that burn more completely than the fuel supplied by the main jet/needle jet/jet needle. This provides better fuel economy and improved performance. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by MMRanch on 02/02/17 at 16:00:31 Thanks Michael , So the vacuum line is between the carb. and intake manifold ? Open the throttle and the vacuum drops letting fuel serge back into the carb , raising the float/fuel level -(enriching mixture). Close the throttle raising vacuum to reload the line ? You remember how the older Brigg/Stratton engines use a bottom mounted needle/jet to physically adjust the fuel opening going into the bottom of the main jet channel. So does the Dial-a-jet , raise and lower the fuel level in the bowl ? I've experimented with float level and know low fuel level = leaning mixture. How could it adjust the fuel level with vacuum ? The theory of another way ? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Dave on 02/02/17 at 18:03:42 The Dial a Jet doesn't affect the fuel level in the float bowl....fuel flows from the float bowl, and goes up the plastic tube and flows out the Dial a Jet and into the air stream. The vacuum in the carb throat is what pulls the fuel up out of the float bowl. At low rpm the Dial a Jet doesn't really function, as the vacuum in the carb throat is very low. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/02/17 at 19:25:02 DAJ works great for a midrange punch but if your gonna spend the money just bite the bullet , open your wallet , just get the Intelajet you will love it! I mounted my control near my left grip. Once the bike is warmed up , I do a hot run do my adjustment on the fly turn around and get back into it do another hot run , no stopping and getting off to adjust . But then again I enjoy chasing that last bit of H/P , I have a box of different air filters and plastic pipes ,silicone elbows,hose clamps , think I changed my intake ten times now I'm down to one filter just haven't settled on a long or a short runner between carb and filter. Have pissed off a lot of Harley owners , light to light it's Fast , but once carb is dialed in I will change the gearing and give it some longer legs. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by mpescatori on 02/03/17 at 08:46:53 OK I'm trying to understand. As Lancer says "you start off with a main jet 3 sizes too small... ...so I replace my 152.5 (or maybe 155) with a 145, right ? Then all goes well until I am at half throttle, when I open tyhe throttle WOT the plastic tube will suck extra fuel from the bottom of the carb bowl and feed it to the top of the venturi... Is that it ? Sounds (almost) like the same principle as a sequential double-body carburetor... ...where one butterfly opens and the second opwns only when 1st is 80% WOT Izzat right ? ::) |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/03/17 at 10:11:31 Every carb will react differently, when the daj senses increased vaccuum & engine load it will deliver fuel mine picks up just past 1/4 throttle |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by mpescatori on 02/03/17 at 12:45:11 Interesting... ::) |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by MMRanch on 02/03/17 at 20:31:42 Finally I understand ! :) I picture a diagram , spring , valve , and tube . The spring pre-load would control when it starts letting fuel flow ! good idea ! |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by LANCER on 02/04/17 at 04:41:33 There seems to be some confusion over HOW the Dial-a-jet works so here is a more in depth explanation. The Dial-A-Jet system was invented by Dennis Dean, Ph.D. (Doctorate in acoustics). Mr. Dean held over 120 world motorcycle drag racing records and several Bonneville records. The Dial-A-Jet concept was used on all of these machines. He knew that he needed a different fuel curve for the launch area, middle of the track and the end of the track. He also had to deal with different altitudes, temperatures, and air densities. Dial-A-Jet proved to take care of these problems as well as providing that fine tuning edge that meant the difference between winning and losing at this highly competitive level. http://thunderproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/3carbs.gif Modern motorcycle engines come from the factory jetted on the lean side, leaving little room for error. Motorcyclists often discard their standard air filter and install a high flow air filter. This will upset the air to fuel ratio making the engine run even leaner and hotter. Custom exhaust systems are usually lower restriction which also causes the engine to run leaner and hotter. The combination of the high flow air filter and the low restriction exhaust system substantially alters fuel flow requirements, leaning the engine and raising the operating temperature. The additional heat that is generated can have a detrimental effect on engine longevity as well as delivering poor performance. Gear selection may become more difficult due to increase in oil operating temperature. The cure for these lean conditions is to restore proper air/fuel ratios. This can be done by rejetting which requires removal and disassembly of your carburetors. This may be a very expensive proposition, paying for 3 or 4 hours of shop time as well as purchasing a jet kit. Dial-A-Jet kits can usually be installed at home in approximately 1 to 1 1/2 hours without having to remove and disassemble your carburetors. Dial-A-Jet now allows you to richen or lean your engine in seconds simply by turning a dial. The ability to adjust your carburetors externally may save you another trip to the local dealer to adjust your carburetors if they didn’t get it right on the first try. Lonn Peterson became interested in using Dial-A-Jets on snowmobiles in the winter of 1989/90. Lonn recognized a great need for this product in the snowmobile industry. Large altitude and temperature changes had to be dealt with, not to mention engine modifications requiring attention to the fuel system. They worked so well and the feed back was so positive that he decided to buy the company. Lonn and his wife, Ann, now own Dial-A-Jet which is part of Thunder Products, Inc. The basic concept of the Dial-A-Jet has never changed since day one; however, it is a highly evolved product that has seen many improvements. Performance has always been the number one consideration. Most other improvements have to do with making the Dial-A-Jet more user friendly, such as fitting into tight places or mounting in easy to access areas, filtering the air to the Dial-A-Jet, reading the settings, etc. Dial-A-Jet is a very reliable fail proof product that works every time! Dial-A-Jet makes more horsepower on less fuel. You can expect gains in the 3% to 5% range. It’s much more than a quick and easy way to change main jets. There are no moving parts or electronics to fail. Dial-A-Jet is a small product measuring only 7/8[ch8243] long, 5/8[ch8243] wide and 5/8[ch8243] high. Air enters the Dial-A-Jet body through one of the five pre-selected air correction circuits in the rotary dial. Each of the five air correction circuits is a different size allowing either more or less air to enter the mixing chamber. More air would be leaner (larger hole) and less air would be richer (smaller hole). Fuel from the float bowl is instantly drawn into the mixing chamber and swirled with air at a high rate of speed emulsifying the fuel. The fuel mixture is like millions of tiny thick skinned balloons with air inside. This is called an emulsified fuel charge. The emulsified fuel charge is inducted into the carburetor through the secondary main jets located in the fuel delivery tube. At this point the Dial-A-Jet is way ahead of the rest of your carburetor. All of the other circuits in your carburetor introduce raw liquid fuel into the air stream, just beginning the atomization process. The lightweight fuel mixture from the Dial-A-Jet only weighs 10% of what liquid fuel weighs. Slight changes in engine load can be quickly and accurately compensated for with this lightweight fuel mixture. Instead of losing as much as 15% of your horsepower due to improper jetting, your machine can now perform at optimum level at any temperature or altitude. A snowmobile will always run like it does at 20 degrees below zero. Three things trigger Dial-A-Jet’s fuel signal: 1) engine pressure drop (vacuum or fuel signal); 2) acoustic sound signal which either amplifies or de-amplifies the reversionary pulse waves of the intake tract (we will explain more about the acoustics later); and 3) air flow and velocity. Dial-A-Jet works from just above an idle all the way to full throttle. Dial-A-Jet automatically gives you a perfectly calibrated carburetor that feeds fuel linear to engine load. Feeding fuel linear to engine load means being jetted properly whether you are pulling a heavy engine load like a hard hole shot with good traction or just cruising easily on hard pack at 40mph. Various speeds and engine loads require changes in your fuel curve. Dial-A-Jet automatically monitors your engine’s needs then alters your fuel curve to match. A load must be placed on the engine for Dial-A-Jet to function. You can’t rev your engine up on the jackstand and watch fuel go up the lines. Without loading the engine, there is no need for extra fuel; therefore, Dial-A-Jet does not deliver fuel. This is normal. Dial-A-Jet is an add fuel only device. You cannot add fuel to an engine that is running rich or has an adequate fuel supply and hope to gain horsepower. You must create a lean condition so that Dial-A-Jet has a window of opportunity to function. Dial-A-Jet will automatically fill in the lean areas of the fuel curve giving you optimum performance. The fine emulsified fuel charge can’t displace the heavier poorly atomized fuel from the other circuits so it takes the path of least resistance and fills in the lean mix areas eliminating fuel spiking and giving you a consistent fuel flow pattern producing stable temperatures and horsepower. The only way Dial-A-Jet can fail to perform is if you do not get the carburetor within range of the Dial-A-Jet. This usually means that the main jet is too large. You must create a slightly lean condition so the Dial-A-Jet has a working range. This is typically about three or four jet sizes below a properly jetted machine. A single Dial-A-Jet will deliver 10% to 15% of your overall fuel curve in an emulsified state. There are five automatic fuel ranges you can select from on each Dial-A-Jet. Simply rotate the dial to raise or lower your fuel curve. With Dial-A-Jet each carburetor can be adjusted independently. This is a huge advantage for maximizing the full potential of each cylinder while giving you great protection against burn down. http://thunderproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/closeup.gif Dial-A-Jet is an acoustical device that is triggered by acoustic sound signals. The acoustic signal is generated when gasoline is ignited in the cylinder just inches away from the Dial-A-Jet. This signal amplifies the pumping action created by the reversionary pulse waves that occur naturally in any engine’s intake tract. The acoustic signal along with normal engine vacuum or fuel signal causes fuel to be delivered to the engine. We have all heard the sound of a fat, over-jetted engine such as you hear at high altitude or very warm weather riding. It’s the whaaa whaaa sound. This is a slow, fuel rich reversionary pulse wave in the intake tract. This would give Dial-A-Jet a de-amplified fuel signal resulting in little or no fuel being inducted. The reverse of this is also true. A crisp lean sounding engine generates a fast sharp reversionary pulse wave, triggering Dial-A-Jet to automatically induct fuel. Detonation is an extreme lean condition that generates a sharp reversionary pulse wave. This excites the Dial-A-Jet causing a rapid response with additional fuel delivery to stave off engine damage. Remember that we are moving a very light weight emulsified fuel charge. This is the reason it is so responsive to the engine’s fuel needs over such a broad range. Dial-A-Jet works great on stock or modified machines giving a realistic 10% to 20% increase in fuel economy or more. Throttle response is extremely fast and smooth. Throttle lag is virtually eliminated. Throttle lag is where the airflow in your carburetor out accelerates your fuel, which finally catches up. Being that the Dial-A-Jet delivers such a lightweight fuel charge, the air can no longer out accelerate the fuel as it once did. The result is major league throttle response! Dial-A-Jet automatically purges your float bowl of alcohol, water, benzenes, or other unwanted sediments that could cause engine damage. Modified or piped machines will have fuel needs that require a higher fuel curve when the pipes and modifications kick in. In other words you need one fuel curve when running below peak and another fuel curve at peak horsepower. This is why a piped machine is so fussy to jet. More horsepower requires more fuel. Dial-A-Jet will automatically raise or lower the fuel curve optimizing performance. Dial-A-Jet feeds fuel based on engine demand. Spark plugs will last longer. The plug color will be lighter and piston wash will be minimal or disappear due to the improved fuel delivery and combustion efficiency. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/04/17 at 10:40:31 Do you own stock in Lon's company ? ;D I understand how it works , but I just had a very short explanation and unwilling to do all that splaining. I just know it works. In short you take a good carb and it fills in all short comings of the limited adjustments and gives you precise fuel delivery and awsome throttle response across the board. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by LANCER on 02/04/17 at 12:45:24 0D2A2B2B33265F0 wrote:
Nope, no stock, I believe he is a private enterprise. Very nice fellow who is willing to help anyone. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by MMRanch on 02/04/17 at 13:08:06 Very good write-up Lancer . You say these things work on regular carbs ?. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/04/17 at 13:36:36 Yeah Lon is a great guy and takes time with his customers to answer all your questions ! I have called him many times for advice and always hung up more educated ! |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/04/17 at 13:50:44 Every time I read Anything you carb gurus say about how they work I'm enlightened, until I blink. Then, I'm right back where I was. Aww, honestly, I have learned and retained some, but I still wouldn't try to solve a problem without asking questions. Why would anyone dig into anything without asking? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by MMRanch on 02/04/17 at 15:59:19 This is one of the things I like about our Forum here ! 8-) , Collectively we are probably pretty smart ! I think I've got his eyebrows ? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/04/17 at 16:12:11 JOG , I'm no guru , I just ask a lot of questions to the right people and then spend endless hours trying everything. Trial and error, what works what doesn't. I understand all the basics of a standard carbs like the vm36,Amal and a few others , but those vaccuum type like the Savage carb I have never messed with . They look difficult to get at in a stocker. You changed your exhaust,are you having a carb issue now ? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by gizzo on 02/04/17 at 17:56:26 I only know about the dial a jet from what I've read here. Is it something that could work with an efi bike, like a poor man's Power Commander? |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by LANCER on 02/04/17 at 17:57:38 Quote:
I KNOW I do ! |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/04/17 at 18:33:31 And I got the hair growing out of my ears !!! >:( >:( >:( |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/05/17 at 15:40:22 Gizzo, the extra fuel would be read by o2 sensor and would lean out injector, I would have to say no , had to think that one out ! Good Question |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/05/17 at 17:22:50 The Previous Owner jetted it, put a really loud pipe on, the backfiring blew its guts out in the street,, ooopsies,,put a Versy in, replaced the head plug, put a windshield on it, raised the front of the seat, |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by gizzo on 02/06/17 at 12:17:31 527574746C79000 wrote:
Good answer. I didn't think of that. |
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Title: Re: Dial-A-Jet Post by Ruttly on 02/06/17 at 12:23:44 EFI just add turbo |
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