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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, query
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Message started by eau de sauvage on 01/24/17 at 20:41:54

Title: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, query
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/24/17 at 20:41:54

I can't figure out what they mean. It looks like they mean at 20kph shift to 2nd, at 30kph shift to 3rd etc. But that doesn't make sense, who would shift to 4th gear at 25mph and why? This is from the latest S40 user manual. I have tried to interpret the data in various other ways without success.

http://https://s27.postimg.org/es04ebeeb/chart.jpg

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by Kenny G on 01/24/17 at 20:52:18

It looks like Suzuki publishes that in an attempt to keep emissions down.

LOL

Kenny G

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/24/17 at 21:16:41

I wouldn't do it.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by batman on 01/24/17 at 22:10:17

NOW that would be lugging! If the shift points they list for km/h were under miles /h they would look fairly good . That would put your shift points at 28 ,42,56,and 70 km/h. You could round these of to 30, 40,55,and 70 to keep things simple.these would be shift points for gently going from 0to 70 km/h.If you are entering a highway on ramp where the speeds to merge with traffic were 90-100km/h you might be shifting up at slightly higher speeds.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by verslagen1 on 01/24/17 at 22:11:37

shift up at a minimum of 3000 rpm so you'll be over 2000 rpm in the next gear to ovoid lugging it.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/rerun/stockchrt.jpg

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/24/17 at 23:13:44

OK, so then I'm correct in thinking that these figures are utter nonsense and there is no other way to interpret the data. I was trying to work out if maybe they mean the indicated speeds were how much faster you can go in a particular gear from the speed you were at before shifting up and other such convolutions because I could not believe that Suzuki would post such obviously wrong speeds. Shifting speeds that, as has been pointed out, would actually do damage to the bike. Because we are always told 'follow the manual' it's written by the engineers and they know more than you what the bike requires'. But apparently they don't.

Since the mph chart has been posted, I'm going to repost the kph chart here.

http://https://s23.postimg.org/9umbcw9ob/kph.jpg

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/24/17 at 23:26:14

Batman, I think you have cracked it. Because the speeds in kph are suspiciously rounded off at 10's, and if those speeds were in mph and converted to kph, as you say, then they are pretty well what I already do.

Therefore I think that the kph speeds were in fact really originally mph speeds and as this was probably corrected for Australia, that whoever set it up, mistakenly used the mph speeds as they were and just added "kph" without converting, and then compounded the error by converting the now incorrect kph speed back to mph. If you can follow that. Mystery solved.

This raises an interesting legal argument. If some newbie damaged their engine by continual lugging and then pointed to the user manual, they could not be held responsible for warranty claims.

6360756C606F3539010 wrote:

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by twhitus on 01/25/17 at 06:02:21

62706467707674110 wrote:

this is whats in my manual as well. 5th gear at 30 mph was just silly, only did that once.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/25/17 at 07:11:01

For me to hit fifth I need to either be Gently cruising on level or slight downhill to see 45 on the speedo. If I'm hustling or uphill, I'm not shifting before 50.
I don't look at the speed before I change, I am listening to the engine. I do sometimes glance down after a change, to see how I'm doing.
Pull away, accelerate, 20, hit second
30, third, and so on.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by JDNewYork on 01/25/17 at 09:30:57

6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:

Agreed, just listen to your engine, it will tell you when it wants a shift up.....and shout when you ignore!!

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by norm92de on 01/25/17 at 10:20:52

IF you are just ambling along on a flat road Suzuki's speeds do work but I use higher speeds normally. The engine sounds happier. :)

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by batman on 01/25/17 at 10:49:12

You have to keep in mind that torque peaks at about 3300to3500 rpm so shift points should be at least near or above that level for good performance, say 3000 to4500 depending on the speed your trying to obtain. Your rate of acceleration at 3400rpm may be 7ft/per sec but falls off to about 1or 2 ft/per sec at 5000to5500 rpm (past time to shift) where it may be 5ft/per sec at 4500rpm (a more reasonable max shift point),which brings you back closer to 3400 and you are again at the rate of 6-7 ft./per sec .(acceleration numbers are just ballpark )

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by philthymike on 01/25/17 at 13:56:56

I'm still relearning the shifting since having the cam and bore mods done. I'd say roughly I'm up 10 mph for 1st, 2nd and 3rd shift points and about 20 mph higher into 4th. I've finally put it in 5th at I think 70+ mph.
So for the most part I'm down to a 4 speed. Last 4 speed I rode was a 1980 Honda ATC 110 - 4 down and auto clutch. Easy to get into trouble once the big balloons started bouncing.

Anyway, I'm getting it figured out again. Takes practice - lots of it! ;)

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by batman on 01/25/17 at 16:38:25

Philthymike,your new cam will change the peak torque to around 4,000rpm ,and your shift points higher.With your engine build you have become a "wicker",and yes you will find that you'll be riding in 4th gear most of the time ,with 5th gear becoming an overdrive that will be used to save fuel only at speeds used on the superslab,65+ mph.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by thumperclone on 01/26/17 at 13:09:20

Ive thumped uphill in 5th doin 30 no lugging

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by old.indian on 01/26/17 at 14:35:44

Tachometers are a wonderful (reasonably inexpensive and easily installed) device.... :)

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by IslandRoad on 01/26/17 at 14:44:38

My Ryca mini tach arrived in the mail today, after a two week wait.

It's taking everything I've got to not drop what I'm doing (which needs done right now) and go out and install it!

I might be a wee bit excited 8-)

BTW, it's a great looking unit :)

585B53195E59535E5659370 wrote:

Tachometers are a wonderful (reasonably inexpensive and easily installed) device.... :)

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by Kris01 on 01/26/17 at 17:36:31

There's a 30 mph road a little ways down from the house that's ALWAYS patrolled by the cops. At 30 mph, I'm in 3rd gear. The bike isn't happy in 4th. How are you guys getting away with using 5th? :o

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by batman on 01/26/17 at 17:42:20

If you build your motor and you want to use 5th gear you could go to chain drive and do the opposite of others,use a 13;43 setup 3.308 ,you wont be able to hit the "ton" and you will use more fuel ,but you'll get to 90mph real fast.

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/26/17 at 18:18:07

0E372C367574450 wrote:

There's a 30 mph road a little ways down from the house that's ALWAYS patrolled by the cops. At 30 mph, I'm in 3rd gear. The bike isn't happy in 4th. How are you guys getting away with using 5th? :o

This...

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by Ruttly on 01/26/17 at 19:37:44

It's called lugging the engine JOG
I come out of first at 25 , my bike does not like & wasn't built to be lugged at low rpm in too high a gear. Twist n Shift n Go ! ;D

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by ohiomoto on 01/27/17 at 05:17:41

Why are we worried about these charts?!!!!

I've never owned a motorcycle with a tachometer(or at least a working one). I just ride and shift when needed. It's not hard to tell when power flattens from stretching a low gear too far (over-revving is to motorcycles as The Law of Diminishing Returns is to Economics :)) or when hanging onto a taller gear too long (or grabbing it too early) makes the motor struggle to chug along, i.e. lugging.

Besides, every bike and every rider is different. I'm 6'3" and weigh 250 lbs (I'm working on that weight now lol). My is mostly stock bike might lug at a specific speed in second gear when I'm on it, but it could chug along fine if my 120 lb wife was riding it at that same speed in the same gear. But what if I'm going up hill, downhill, on a flat or riding at higher elevations? These conditions are constantly changing. Do we need charts for that too?

What we hear, see and feel are what matters most and probably why we all ride in the first place. So what's the point of these charts and why do any of us really care about them?????

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by ohiomoto on 01/27/17 at 05:31:06

425D5B5C41467747774F5D511A280 wrote:

---------------------------
This!

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by batman on 01/27/17 at 05:32:09

Om,this topic was started by a newbie,he was reading to learn ,he is probably riding his first bike and doesn't know what it should sound or act like.the fact that Suzuki needs to do a better job of proof reading ,before they print ,was the cause of confusion .

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by Dave on 01/27/17 at 09:41:33

One of the things that some of us "old guys" need to remember is......that there are a whole lot of younger folks who never have driven a car that wasn't fuel injected - or had a manual transmission. These folks have never experienced driving with a manual choke, and the fun of using the accelerator pedal to keep the engine from dying in that weird zone where the engine is too warm to use the choke - yet still too cold to run without it.

We have had several new members who didn't expect that their engine will not idle well for the first few minutes after a cold start......their fuel injected car has never acted like that.

And a lot of these young folks have always had a car that did the shifting for them - and some modern cars even have computers that adapt the shifting to suite your driving style.

Luckily the Savage is pretty forgiving, and isn't likely to get broken or burned up from being abused (provided you keep oil in it and pay attention to the cam chain tensioner).

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by Kris01 on 01/27/17 at 10:19:32

EVERYTHING these days is too automated! Where's the fun in that?

Title: Re: Suzuki's published 'shifting up' schedule, que
Post by norm92de on 01/27/17 at 15:27:00

I go riding in southern New Mexico and on my route there are some villages with 30/35 mph speed limits. The gear that I use is always 3rd or possibly 4th, nearly always 3rd.

The engine seems happier :).