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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Joer0952 about Global Warming.... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1484874701 Message started by raydawg on 01/19/17 at 17:11:41 |
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Title: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by raydawg on 01/19/17 at 17:11:41 In this thread/post by me: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1484743304 I was wondering if our planet might die.... And I wondered if man made stuff, like Global Warming producing behavior/products might cause it. Extending that man, too many of them, would be better if some population thinning was to occur to protect the planet. You made the claim, I hope I get this right, that nothing new is added to our enviroment, everything is already present, it just changes forms..... Is that right? Could you then tell us how this jives, with man causing GW, then? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by MnSpring on 01/19/17 at 17:57:32 23302835302636510 wrote:
Don’t know, Do Know, MN, has had record warm spells. And AZ & Calf, record Snow/Rain, spells. Could it be, ‘change’, which has nothing to do with ‘Man’, it is , Change, as been happing with this is ’spaceship’, for the last SEVERAL, BILLIONS of Years. And will Continue to do so, Regardless of, Man. ? Could it be, that ? |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/19/17 at 18:35:45 30233B26233525420 wrote:
I will start this by saying that there are many scientists on both sides of the debate as to if and how much of an effect humans play on climate change. Certainly in earths history climate has shifted such as the most recent ice ages that produced the lovely great lakes of our country. For the purposes of this thread I will not take a side of this debate but merely answer the question directly. When I said that everything is already present it was in reference to elements, that is atoms otherwise known as the basic unit of matter. With the small exception of meteorites the earth is not gaining or losing matter. The same matter that was here 4 billion+ years ago when the planet was formed is still here. To add to this I said that this matter can change form, but ultimately it was always here. In reference to the theory of GW the main culprit is often sited as carbon dioxide. Now carbon dioxide is made of 1 carbon atoms and 2 oxygen atoms. It is produced from living things and the combustion engine in essentially the same way. To oversimplify the process an organic carbon source (food for living things or gasoline for the combustion engine) is oxidized down to carbon dioxide and water and in the process energy is released which can then be used to perform work. In the case of living things this reaction looks like (it is similar for cars): C6H12O6 + 6O2 ---> 6CO2 + 6H2O + energy glucose oxygen carbon dioxide water This process is essentially reversed in plants which take energy from the sun, water from the ground, and carbon dioxide from the air and make sugar and oxygen. SO you see the carbon and oxygen and hydrogen that make up this process has always been here and is just changing form in a cycle. More to your point one important thing to note is that as matter changes form often times its properties also change. For instance, no one would say that sugar or oxygen causes global warming, but when they are changed to carbon dioxide some people do. Another perfect analogy to illustrate this point is water Water is made of hydrogen and oxygen and anyone that has watched the hindenburg disaster video knows that hydrogen gas is very flammable, similarly you can't have an open flame around oxygen gas because it to is very flammable, but when you mix them in a 2 to 1 ratio to make water you have a substance that is often used to put out fires. |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by raydawg on 01/19/17 at 19:10:22 Wow..... What I grasped, which wasn't much, seems amazing. The intricate weaving of the relationship to the elements/matter, tho finite, yes(?) still seem to be vast, yeah? |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by WebsterMark on 01/20/17 at 05:16:41 I've been absent from the Tall Table for a bit but this is a great thread topic thanks Joer. My memory was the earth loses a great deal every day, but I couldn't remember why exactly. I cheated and consulted the Oracle. Apparently the earth gains 40,000 tons a year of dust from space but loses 90,000 tons in hydrogen escaping the atmosphere. So it's a net loss. But, not to worry since 50,000 tons is meaningless in the big picture. Also, a minor correction, oxygen in and of itself, is not flammable. It facilitates combustion. I admit I'm on dangerous ground here, I'm not a chemist, but I sold flame resistant fibers for a few years so picked up info from much smarter people than me. |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/17 at 05:42:38 is fire a redox reaction |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/20/17 at 07:09:48 57484E4954536252625A48440F3D0 wrote:
yes combustion is a redox reaction not really sure what your asking raydawg |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/17 at 07:13:48 Sorry, I meant to say Use this for a search. Fire is rapid oxidation. |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/20/17 at 07:36:16 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
you are correct on both points but as you said 50,000 tons while it seems a lot is actually minuscule in term of the total mass of the earth which is about 6,500,000,000,000,000,000,000lbs ;D which is 3,250,000,000,000,000,000 tons so 50,000 tons is 1/65,000,000,000,000 of the mass of the earth or 0.0000000000015% and it would take 65 quadrillion years for all the mass to go away which is about 8million times the life expectancy of the earth so over the course of the entire life of earth it would only lose about 1/8000000 or 0.0000125% of its mass. to put that into visual terms that is like a 200lbs man losing about 20 hairs over his entire life. BTW I like math ;D ;D Yes you are right I made a gaff, oxygen is not flammable but facilitates combustion like you said but it still fits my analogy |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/20/17 at 07:44:30 736C6A6D70774676467E6C602B190 wrote:
yes our body does the same thing but it does it in such a way that the heat is released much slower. You can imagine the consequences to our body if it happened at the same speed. |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by raydawg on 01/20/17 at 07:47:37 6D484255171E1215270 wrote:
not really sure what your asking raydawg[/quote] I'm not either ;D How hydrogen, depending on how its mated, with other elements, can go from friend, to foe, depending on who it is hanging out with....yes? Let me ask this observation/example, as a question, as to how a machine (living creatures) use the same element, oxygen, which is made of more than one matter, right.... to survive, using it as the source of its power. Man, we breath it in, a natural form, or could I say in (oxygen's) suspend or default, state, into our lungs. They extract the matter our living body needs to run, we exhale the carbon dioxide, or spent hydrogen. Fish do the same, but the environment it is in requires a different machine to extract the same matter, yes? Does this method create carbon dioxid, in the water, after it passes over a fishes gills? Dolphin then live in sort of both of these environments, so it has machinery that has fish and human engineering ;D Does this observation have any merit, or am I still suffering from the years of dope use as a liberal 8-) |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/17 at 07:48:40 There are so many factors involved it boggles the mind. 9/11 and all those co2 & water vapor mfg planes are grounded and it was warmer. It appears the water vapor is a better reflector than co2 is as an insulator. Being in so cal all my life, I've never learned the little tricks to keeping warm. Friend of mine from the east coast says a couple of candles in a room will keep the chill off. How many fires are burning world wide? |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by raydawg on 01/20/17 at 07:49:35 615354454253447B57445D360 wrote:
Welcome back webby.... Hope all is well! |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/20/17 at 10:26:20 65766E73766070170 wrote:
not really sure what your asking raydawg[/quote] I'm not either ;D How hydrogen, depending on how its mated, with other elements, can go from friend, to foe, depending on who it is hanging out with....yes? Let me ask this observation/example, as a question, as to how a machine (living creatures) use the same element, oxygen, which is made of more than one matter, right.... to survive, using it as the source of its power. Man, we breath it in, a natural form, or could I say in (oxygen's) suspend or default, state, into our lungs. They extract the matter our living body needs to run, we exhale the carbon dioxide, or spent hydrogen. Fish do the same, but the environment it is in requires a different machine to extract the same matter, yes? Does this method create carbon dioxid, in the water, after it passes over a fishes gills? Dolphin then live in sort of both of these environments, so it has machinery that has fish and human engineering ;D Does this observation have any merit, or am I still suffering from the years of dope use as a liberal 8-) [/quote] if I understand you correctly you are asking how we use Oxygen as power. The answer is we don't the energy comes from sugar. The processes that extract this energy from the sugar are called glycolysis, citric acid cycle and the electron transport chain. Explaining these processes are extremely complex, trust me it fills textbooks. Energy is stored in sugar and our body releases that energy from the sugar and stores it as something called ATP which are body can quickly use to do work (contract muscles in your arm, pump your heart etc...) in the process electrons are released which are taken up by the oxygen along with 2 hydrogens to make water. When all the energy from the sugar has been extracted what remains is carbon dioxide which we breath out. The reverse happens in plants they take energy from sunlight, the carbon dioxide we breath out and water from the ground and put the energy back into the carbon dioxide to make sugar and in the process oxygen is released from the reaction which the plant releases. (its basically the exact opposite of what we do) Next I think you asked about if humans and fish have different "machines" to do the same thing because of the different environments. The answer is yes fish have gills we have lungs both extract oxygen from the environment and put it in the blood. This happens by a process called diffusion. The air we breathe and the water that goes over a fishes gills have more oxygen and less carbon dioxide than the blood in our or the fishes body. Molecules are always moving and tend to spread out. since there is more oxygen in the air/water it tends to move into the blood and since there is more carbon dioxide in the blood it tends to move to the air/water. No dolphins are mammals not fish so even though they live in the water they have lungs and breathe air just like humans. They are just really good at holding their breathe ;D |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by raydawg on 01/20/17 at 11:48:19 Yes, I get that, I think ;D What I was trying to link was we use the same disfussion, but adapted to our environment. Can "earth" do the same, re: global warming, cooling, etc.... It appears to me that earth reacts according to the present condition it finds itself, even to the point of locality, for it appears to me that weather often seems cylindrical in nature, a prolonged dry spell often produces a condition that might/will, produce above "average" precipitation. Yes? |
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Title: Re: Joer0952 about Global Warming.... Post by Joer0952 on 01/21/17 at 16:42:42 6D7E667B7E68781F0 wrote:
This would seem to imply that earth has some sort of consciousness that it doesn't have. The earth has no motive, things happen because current conditions dictate that they happen. |
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