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Message started by eau de sauvage on 01/03/17 at 22:12:55

Title: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/03/17 at 22:12:55

I have not seen this point raised before and it seems unlikely that no one has thought of it therefore I was wondering what the obvious problem is that I'm missing...

Instead of using the 6 degree angled adapter to attach the Dyna muffler is there a reason that this angle cannot be taken up where the Dyna rail attaches to the frame by using a spacer on the bolt, or some other modification at the mounting end?

Also providing that all bolts are secure is a single mounting bolt on the muffler safe enough.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kenny G on 01/03/17 at 22:32:06

Sauvage,

I have just a single bolt mounting bolt between the muffler and the mounting bracket and it has been satisfactory for over 5000 miles.

Without the adapter the muffler is aimed at the rear brake arm. Plenty of guys have just used the tin can method rather than the adapter. IIRC the procedure is posted in the Technical Documents.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 22:44:47

I've got one bolt holding my Dyna on too, and a bit of Loktite on the nut.

As Kenny said, the angle is not just up, it's also back. The back part of the rail on the Dyna sits kinda up on the raisied edge of the mounting plate on the bike. The front bolt is not exactly perpendicular to the mounting bracket either, but the rubber grommets allow enough flex for it to work.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/03/17 at 22:57:01

What about welding something on to the black subframe that attaches to the dyna rail? It's just that I've decided that if I'm going to get the local muffler people to make and angled adapter that seeing as they'll have all the equipment I could do without the adapter and weld something on the frame to meet the Dyna rail instead of using the adapter to make the Dyna rail meet the frame.

Or is this not possible at all due to some other reasons

EDIT: @IslandRoad, how about welding a custom piece onto the subframe? I haven't had the muffler off yet so I can't fully see what precisely is needed.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:11:14

I stepped outside and took a photo for you.

That stripy thing at the top is the chrome muffler reflecting the boards off the decking 8-)

You can see it's kind of offset at an awkward angle. Not close enough to bolt down, but too close to fit anything. I've some guy's photos where the angle looks more pronounced. There might be some slight variation between years for some of the angles on the bike. That mounting rail does have a little bit of flex though.

I had ago at a couple of options for fitment and ended up back here.

I'll post some photos shortly.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:15:08

BTW, I tried bolting it into place to line up with the mount. It was too tempting not to. The result was a leak at the muffler/header join. There's about a 1mm difference in diameter between the Dyna muff ID and the header pipe OD. this allows some wriggle room which tempts you to line the Dyna up on the rail ... straight on the header is better.

My header also had to be rotated out a bit from the bike. The heat shield near the right foot still goes on but could do with a little bit of a bend on the rear lug to help it sit better.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/03/17 at 23:34:52

@IslandRoad, I just had a look at your saddlebag shot and I can see that you have mounted the Dyna directly to the header. Are you saying that with the Dyna mounted square to the header pipe that the rail sits as it does in the above photo? Or is that with it not sitting perfectly straight on the header?

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:41:39

My local muffler guy made me an adapter (kind of a prototype). It's just a bent pipe, flared at one end.

You can see that even when the Dyna sits flat on the mount, it points down a bit. The rail mount on the back of the stock pipe is angled to offset this.

Also the adapter is too long, I believe there is a limit to how far you can lengthen a header without affecting the compression.

The muffler guy and I discussed cutting a bit off the header (the bit that fits into the muffler), welding the adapter on (I couldn't get it to seal). But I didn't want to chop and weld on the stock parts.

If I WAS gonna go this way, I would have an adapter made from two different sized pipes cut at a 7 degree mitre- then probably welded onto the header (after the header was shortened). There are threads on the forum buy guys who have done all that stuff. (you've probably already seen them).

I just re-fitted my Dyna today, because I had some leaks, due to mounting it using both bolts. So my head is full of this stuff right now.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:44:25

Yeah, that was when I used both bolts on the mount. Once I realised I had a leak it was obvious that the join at the header was a bit off.

47554142555351340 wrote:

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:48:17

This is the bike as of today with the Dyna lined up properly, and not leaking, as far as I can tell. I took her for a spin and all seems good.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/03/17 at 23:53:57

Three things I learned today that might help:

1. Not all tin cans are the same. Standard sized cans, like for soup etc, don'y have a high enough profile on the ridges. Large dog food cans do.

2. An original Dyna muffler clamp is the best $11 dollars you'll ever spend.

3. Some Dyna's have two little welded bumps inside the pipe, which I assume key into the header on the Harley. You need to file or grind them down - however, I found out they are pinned so they opened up two holes in the inner pipe. They're little, but a hole is a hole. I filled them with a little exhaust cement.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/04/17 at 00:03:43

@IslandRoad,

OK I see the two bumps inside the dyna but on mine they look too deep to be a problem, at 1.75" inside the pipe. I have a couple of Dyna clamps. So are you saying that even with angled tube so the muffler went on straight that you still needed the tin can to get a good seal? Also is that shot above (where you have the rail sitting on the edge of the bracket) including the angled adapter?

EDIT:,

Ok I'm just going to package up all this information and get the muffler shop to work it all out :¬) It's enough work doing the rejetting without faffing around with muffler leaks. I've spoken them and I'm sure they'll do a good job. http://www.toysmuffler.com.au

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 00:16:08

10 bucks says the muffler guy can't work it out 8-)

We're fitting a non-metric muffler to a metric header. The muffler guy and the mechanic I spoke to were keen to help but just ended up scratching their heads.

To answer your questions:

The photo of the mounting rail is as is it now - no adapter

You will need some kind of gasket (tin can) no matter what you do, because of the difference in diameter.

I started (and ended up) following this thread very closely:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1298689417/4

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 00:18:59

... although ... looking at your muffler guy's website, maybe I'll be eating my words! Would love to hear how you go :)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by MShipley on 01/04/17 at 08:15:13

I did an installation last night. I followed Serowbot's instructions with a couple exceptions. I placed both bolts in the rail and placed header on header pipe. The obvious angle issue. Like stated in instructions I made a lot of cuts to the muffler pipe but actually made more of them. I then tapped all the little pieces to the outside which virtually created the angle I was looking for. I slipped everything back into position and again taped the little strips up tight to the header pipe. I did use a piece of corrugated can as a spacer and a really heavy wide clamp but I slathered muffler sealer on the inside and outside of the spacer. When I clamped it tight the sealer oozed out everywhere and I wiped up the excess and was done. I let it all sit overnight and have no leaks and all seems secure. Of course time will tell for how this holds up.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by MShipley on 01/04/17 at 08:18:06

Picture of the install.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by bobert_FSO on 01/04/17 at 09:24:19

I must have done something wrong, because I had a pretty easy time mounting my dyna.

Loosen the header bolts at the end to allow the header pipe to move around a little as needed.

Since the dyna muffler doesn't slip on all the way to the stop ring, I cut the tail of the header pipe just enough to allow the muffler to hit the stop ring. I think I was able to cut on the section there the inner and outer pipe still come together, not on the part where the pipe swells and the two pipes separate.

Cut a few slots in the dyna inlet, not long enough to cause holes when the muffler is pushed up against the stop ring.

I wrapped a couple of layers of asbestos gasket material around the header pipe. Enough to fill the difference between the sloppy fit of the header pipe and muffler. It serves the same function as the soft gasket in the inlet of the stock muffler. I don't know if you can get this stuff anymore. I got it when I inherited stuff from my grandfather's garage. Thanks, Grandpa!

Use a really good t-bolt clamp the will clamp around the entire pipe joint. The wider the better.

Mount the muffler to the muffler bracket using only one bolt. Bend the stock muffler bracket as needed to line everything up.

Snug, but don't tighten the rail mounting bolt and the head clamp bolts at the head. Allow for some movement.

Tighten the t-bolt clamp. If the alignment between the header and the muffler is a little off, the slots cut in the muffler inlet will allow the inlet to bend a little as needed. Sock this clamp down hard.

Finish by tightening up the head clamp bolts and the muffler rail bolt. Stick a 4 in shield over the joint to hide it.

This method worked great for me. the muffler does blow a little soot on the rear brake lever, but so what. The muffler doesn't blow directly on the brake lever. Bending the stock mounting bracket on the bike helped with that. I got a nice straight-looking line between the header and muffler without that droopy look caused by the angled adapter.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 15:50:15

Both of those look good :)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 15:51:16

Both of those look good :)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 15:57:52

Can you give us any details of the install? It looks like it is the same length as a direct fit, without an adapter.

Was the header shortened? Is there an adapter? A gasket?

Just curious :)

011F24253C2029354C0 wrote:

Picture of the install.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 16:01:30

I think that asbestos wrap probably made the job a bit simpler!

Not much of that stuff around these days.

I ended up following the same install guide as you. Second time round it all seemed pretty simple really :)

Originally, I had it stuck in my head that I wanted both bolts connected on the rail - I got over that pretty quickly after trying to re-jet with exhaust leaks - ya live and learn I suppose 8-)

010C01061117630 wrote:

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/04/17 at 16:07:08

I was tempted to hit it with some sealer. But, because I'm new to all this I wanted to avoid doing stuff that would be difficult to undo if I messed it up and had to revert to the stock setup (some of the comments in other threads by guys on here warned me off sealant and cement for that reason). I was also trying to avoid cutting the stock header if necessary. Parts are not so much available in Australia and shipping from the States is high.

I kind of went full circle on the install guide in the tech section. Had a go, messed it up, tried some other things, then went back to the guide and paid more attention to the details!

All seems good now and the bike runs and sounds great.

6E704B4A534F465A230 wrote:

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kris01 on 01/04/17 at 19:26:08

I just covered the header to Dyna joint with aluminum foil and high-temp silicone. The tin can didn't work for me. The foil is glued to the joint and the clamp squeezes it down around the joint for a leak free fit. Once clamped you can't see the foil. Looks very professional! ;D

For the mount, I used a mending strip (http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Builders-Hardware-Mending-Plates/N-5yc1vZasc4) to locate the Dyna correctly AND use 2 bolts to hold it on. Technically 4 bolts. 2 to hold the strip to the bike and 2 to mount the Dyna to the strip.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by MShipley on 01/05/17 at 05:24:19

I think the primary change I made was cutting the muffler mounting part into about 12 strips. this allowed me to use a hammer and tap all those little strips over to create the angle I wanted. The muffler I have says it is a 64941-01 but also said off a Sportster. It is a little longer than the shorty. I did take the front rubber washer out of the stock mounting space which provided a little more angle. So far so good.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by LANCER on 01/05/17 at 09:14:42

I use strips cut from soda cans, it is much thinner than soup or veggie cans, wrap the header end a couple of times, then tap the muffler in place with a soft hammer, and then tighten it down with a heavy steel bracket.
Part #31-2112 on www.vtwinmfg.com

http://www.vtwinmfg.com/WebPics/31/31-2112a.jpg

Alignment is done with slightly loosened header bolts so the header/muffler can be moved with a little effort and header/muffler alignment is maintained. Position the muffler as desired and then you can bend the mounting bracket a little to match one of the bolt holes with the muffler.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/05/17 at 22:32:43

This thread has been a real eye opener for me all this info that has never been elucidated despite all the dyna thread!

@IslandRoad said... Some Dyna's have two little welded bumps inside the pipe, which I assume key into the header on the Harley. You need to file or grind them down - however, I found out they are pinned so they opened up two holes in the inner pipe.

I don't understand this, the bumps are about 1 7/8" inside the pipe surely it doesn't slide on that far, or does it?

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 11:16:06

Eau, I didn't measure the header when I had the muffler off, bit I took some pictures. This is the header.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 11:16:58

This is one of the little bumps in the Dyna muffler

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 11:17:57

This is the connection with the bumps still there. You can see it pulls up short.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 11:21:03

I filed/ground off the bump and found it was actually a pin. It looked to me like this hole would allow the exhaust gases to leak into the space between the the inner and outer tube on the muffler. You can't see that in the photo, but on inspection I'm almost certain it would. I filled these holes with exhaust cement.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 11:23:39

This is the connection with the bumps ground off

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 13:06:53

Just my opinion, turn the clamp so that the bolt is pointed down for a cleaner look. ;)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 13:56:35

Haha, it's been driving me crazy since I fitted it. I had so much hassle getting it installed so I haven't been game to loosen it off to turn it ... but I think I'm gonna have to :)

102932286B6A5B0 wrote:

Just my opinion, turn the clamp so that the bolt is pointed down for a cleaner look. ;)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 14:32:53

LOL! I know that feeling!

You're so proud of yourself that you got it done and it doesn't leak so now you want to step back and admire your work, not redo it! ;D

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/06/17 at 17:40:33

@IslandRoad, mind => blown. First I have to thank you for these invaluable photos. This should be retitled the Dyna gotcha thread.

I'm most surprised by the 3 step down pipes coming out of the header, who knew? Plus how come no one else has mentioned these bumps before, I guess they aren't on every Dyna but someone must have come across it.

I think I'll prepare all this info and let the muffler people think about it. Right now I'm thinking about having the muffler welded in place. It's welded in place on my GS500 and I found no problem getting the entire muffler and header off that, so I don't really see any urgent need to keep this removable. It's not like I'm going to want to change out the mufflers anytime during the next 10 years.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by IslandRoad on 01/06/17 at 18:02:48

Your welcome :)

The bumps in the Dyna have been mentioned here somewhere. I can't remember which thread. I think they don't all have them, but I could be wrong.

As for getting the exhaust off later, it all comes off easily when fully assembled. You just need to take off the heat shield near the right foot peg. The bolts go right through to the other side of the bike so you have to hold the other side with a spanner. Be careful doing that, even if you only idled the bike for a couple minutes to test it, because you could burn your arm on the header when you reach around ... dont ask me how I know!

Welding was gonna be my next option if I didn't get it to work. All seems good now. I burned some incense and let the smoke waft around the join to check for leaks ( another tip from another user on here). Couldn't find any [ch9786]

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 18:16:56

764C535E515B6D505E5B3F0 wrote:

I burned some incense and let the smoke waft around the join to check for leaks ( another tip from another user on here). Couldn't find any [ch9786]

You can also just wave a candle/match/lighter around the joint to see if a leak moves the flame.

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/06/17 at 18:21:08

@IR, I meant getting it all off in one piece if it's welded. Someone in another thread welded it, which seemed like a good idea but then it seems that most people warned against that, but I don't really know why. I'm most concerned that say the bike falls over and bumps the muffler or gets knocked on a trip and then there's a leak, that would truly be a PITA, especially as it's not my bike, it's the gf's.

@Kris, I don't think the incense was for the leak, it was to smooth the way for the muffler gods.

I have a feeling that IslandRoad has ruined my Dyna muffler initiation where whoever does this mod must discover for themselves the minor irritations, it's like unless you've overcome some obstacles you haven't really earned it ;¬)

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by Kris01 on 01/06/17 at 20:20:46

27352122353331540 wrote:

@Kris, I don't think the incense was for the leak, it was to smooth the way for the muffler gods.

;D
Couldn't hurt!

Title: Re: Alternative to angled Dyna muffler adapter
Post by MShipley on 01/09/17 at 09:01:40

It looks great