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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Broken bolts /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1483159336 Message started by jasonleung on 12/30/16 at 20:42:16 |
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Title: Broken bolts Post by jasonleung on 12/30/16 at 20:42:16 Did the plug leak replacement... broke two bolts :'( the L60 and L130 will this cause a leak? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by verslagen1 on 12/30/16 at 21:20:07 yes, both have sealing washers. L130 is the oil supply route for the head. did you break them or strip them? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by jasonleung on 12/30/16 at 21:23:27 Instead of pulling the whole head out to remove the bolt could I just tap a new bolt on top of the snapped bolt to seal the washer? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by jasonleung on 12/30/16 at 21:25:20 They both snapped I was using a click torque wrench and it didn't click so I kept going and it was going with ease and of course they both snapped. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Dave on 12/31/16 at 03:45:06 You are in deep Doo Doo. Were you using a 150 ft/lb torque wrench to try and measure 8 ft/lbs? There is nothing you can do...other than take the bike apart and fix it properly. This will require you to remove the engine from the frame, as the cylinder head will have to come off...and maybe the cylinder as well. If you can get to the bolts when the head is removed and take them out easily......that will be your first stroke of luck. If they need to be drilled and an easy out used......you would be better off removing the cylinder so you can use a drill press or milling machine to drill things straight. If you need to drill on the 130...shove a lot of greased string down the oil passage to keep the metal shavings from getting down into the oil passage.....the greased string will remove any shavings as you pull the string out. Sorry this happened.....we will help you through this. ;) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Kenny G on 12/31/16 at 07:16:33 Dave, I never broke of a bolt or a stud until I bought my first torque wrench. That being said; what is the best torque wrench to purchase for using the 8 ft/lb setting? Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Ruttly on 12/31/16 at 08:38:41 Yes torque wrenchs have a range where they are most accurate and too low on that range is not good. If your not sure of it you can test it which will prevent screw ups/failures. We all love our click type torque wrenches but if your inexperienced things like this happen. The old rod style while hard to read while pulling a high torque load are almost fool proof. My work pays for my high dollar snap on click type wrenchs to be calibrated and I do not trust cheap torque wrenches until I test them against a rod type and even then they need to be tested at different ranges , cause it is unacceptable to break bolts or studs during assembly , this should never happen. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Mr.T on 12/31/16 at 08:59:43 Quote:
I use a beam type torque wrench calibrated in inch pounds with a 3/8s drive for projects like this. Never let me down. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Ruttly on 12/31/16 at 09:49:04 That low of a torque setting a beam/rod type is your safest & cheapest. I very seldom use a torque wrench for such a light setting unless it's a critical situation, I will tighten by hand but then again it's what I do everyday and have a feel for what is tight enough. But for 8 ft lbs I would use a calibrated snap on in lb click type. For calculation 8 ft lb multiplied 12 inlb = 96 in lb so 8 ft lb = 96 in lb, get it , depending on type of bolt type of threaded hole and/or whether you loctite or a never seize or oil is used on thread then that number changes. I do this stuff daily so it's tough to break it all down in a post. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Kenny G on 12/31/16 at 10:30:20 Other than big hardened bolts on an engine assembly I just make the bolts, or nuts on studs, "Good & Tight". 6mm and smaller I use 1/4" drive ratchet. 8mm and up I use 3/8" drive. I find that a T-Wrench with a socket is easier than a ratchet wrench for uniform tightening. After I work on something I a take ride and then come back and double check all of the fasteners that I worked on. I use a lot of Blue Loctite and Safety Wire. As mentioned above, I never broke off a stud or a bolt before I bought my first Torque Wrench. I am going to get a small beam torque wrench. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Ruttly on 12/31/16 at 11:26:55 Also torque specs can be misleading , if you don't know what your doing you can still break bolts or strip holes. Never torque to max spec ! That spec is for a steel bolt into a steel hole with threads oiled. Always use lower range of spec, when torquing cylinder heads on studs be sure to inspect the studs for being stretched and follow manual instructions torquing steps & patterns & if lubing threads is needed,head gaskets are critical ! A stainless bolts in any hole unless otherwise specified must be never seized which also alters torque spec. There are too many scenarios to list , every bolt has a job to do and the bolt next to that may have a different job to do |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/31/16 at 14:17:35 Even clamping force applied in a pattern that pulls parts together incrementally and using a pattern that allows them to mate flat, working from the middle and working out from there, just snug on the first pass, a couple of pounds on the next, and Feel of what the bolts are telling you. An end wrench is light and short enough to not give you so much leverage that you can't feel the bolt come tight. The head cover doesn't clamp the head gasket, it's The cam bearing carrier. Too much gasket sealer is not okay. I won't use RTV on it. ThreeBond or equivalent, IF someone is just determined to use a torque wrench then I would get in inch pound wrench. Then I would find something that simulates the installation, like a nut with a spacer approximating the depth of the head cover and ttest a bolt. I would also replace all the bolts. If you broke two, there is a good chance you brought others just to the break point. Nobody wants to put something together and find a leak, but it's easier to snug something a hair to stop a weep than weep over breaking things . Bad as this sux, at Least it didn't strip the head threads out. Before you start trying to extract the broken bolts, tell us what you have to work with. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Ruttly on 12/31/16 at 14:29:14 Well put ! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Dave on 01/01/17 at 05:11:36 654B406D5C4F5D462E0 wrote:
Having a "feel" for how tight to make bolts/nuts is not something that is genetic, and it comes with experience. (Which could possibly be translated into several broken bolts or stripped threads in a persons apprentice period). If the broken/stripped bolt is a through bolt, they can easily be replaced and it is a cheap lesson - but bolts that thread into engine cases or frames or oil pans can be a costly lesson. I have bought used vehicles where the oil pan drain bolt was so tight....the previous owner must have thought the bolt held the engine into the frame! For years I only had a 1/2" drive 150 ft/lb click wrench, and I found that for torques below 40 ft/lbs the click could not be flt reliably. I recently got a much smaller 3/8" drive torque wrench, and I use it for those engine bolts that require much smaller torques....like the cylinder head cap bolts. Being that I am 61 and have a lot of wrenching experience, I have reached a point where I seldom use the torque wrench for chassis bolts or axles. Harbor Freight has very affordable torque wrenches in all sizes.....I am not sure how accurate or reliable they are - but I am sure they would be better than just "guessing" for anyone going through their learning period (gaining experience). |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by Ruttly on 01/01/17 at 09:27:30 Under 40 ft lb you can check your torque wrench against a known to be accurate or a beam/rod type. Use a 1/2" fine thread bolt & nut , put the nut in a vise , put a washer or 2 on the bolt & screw it into nut in vise with the good T/W torque it to 5 ft lb then check T/W in question continue in 5 lb increments up as high as you feel you need to. Click type always must be set at 0 during storage and give no signs before they fail a old beam style is always you best bet if you don't have the FEEL. But if it doesn't feel right don't keep pulling until you strip or break something waiting for it to click !!!! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolts Post by gizzo on 01/02/17 at 12:20:44 I never bothered with a small torque wrench until I bought an Enfield. The bolts on that bike are made from some kind of engineering paneer and kind of make the proper tool worthwhile. I bought a nice quality 1/4" drive click type torque wrench from a bicycle tool supplier. So far, so good. A deflection beam type would be better but they're not cheap. Too bad about the broken bolts, hope you solve it without too much pain. |
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