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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Probably good that I don't use the rear brake /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1482459222 Message started by Armen on 12/22/16 at 18:13:41 |
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Title: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/22/16 at 18:13:41 Have to finish tidying up the windows... |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/22/16 at 18:14:45 And the brake shoe diet.... |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by verslagen1 on 12/22/16 at 18:19:57 those holes are too small... said Goldilocks. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Kris01 on 12/22/16 at 19:06:37 I like that drum a lot. Looks really cool! How much weight do you think you've saved by boring holes in everything? |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/22/16 at 20:50:14 I thought about gutting the rear brake. Don't really use it after installing Shawn's setup. But I changed my mind thought it would look weird without it ! |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by hotrod on 12/22/16 at 21:47:07 A lot of time on your hands ? A modification for nothing that will improve anything. In a panic stop, the rear brake is not your friend. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/23/16 at 02:52:38 Honestly, not much weight at all. I left the ribbed areas alone, and just cut out the thin stuff in between. Didn't weigh the part beforehand. It was more in keeping with the spirit of the whole project. As far as too much time, eh, there are a lot worse ways to spend your time. A big single has lots of engine braking, and I'm always cautious of using the rear brake. I don't use the back brake very much. Stopped on a hill, going down a steep hill with bad traction conditions, and such like that. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by batman on 12/23/16 at 03:26:54 It's one way of getting rid of that pesky brake dust! But this door swings both ways, I don't suggest anyone follow you down this road. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Mr.T on 12/23/16 at 03:59:52 3A392C3539366C60580 wrote:
Agreed . Brake dust out, road dust/ mud/water in. And there are plenty of situation where the back brake is beneficial. Granted, it does not really work all that well, a disc would be sooo much better. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/23/16 at 06:39:01 Hotrod, Please don't make fun of my friend Armen, he can't help himself. He was a Swiss cheese loving mouse in a former life ! ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by ohiomoto on 12/23/16 at 07:35:29 Reminds me of the original Toyota Tundra commercial, "Have we gone too far? Or not far enough?" Ha, ha, ha..... For those of you talking of getting rid of the rear brake completely, get you head examined! My road racing friend lost a buddy when his rear brake failed. While it's true you get most of your braking power from the front, the rear brake is critical for control. Especially in an emergency situation. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/23/16 at 08:34:53 My head has been examined and they found nothing! ;D |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by batman on 12/23/16 at 08:57:26 Ruttly ,has Armen been in your head? |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Kenny G on 12/23/16 at 09:24:15 I am in total agreement with Ruttly. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by SALB on 12/23/16 at 09:32:33 I kind of like the drilled look. It reminds me of the old hot rods and drag racing. As long as Armen doesn't start eyeing the gas tank with that drill, I say go for it. ;) |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by jcstokes on 12/23/16 at 10:39:29 I feel ohiomoto may be correct. Despite it's tendency to lock up, the rear brake is 30 or so per cent important. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/23/16 at 10:52:36 A grinder removing shoe material will change that tendency to lock up. The 05 would lock up before I could feel feedback from the pedal before I cut slots across and tapered the ends of the shoes. The 02 works well and predictably without modification. I finish stopping with the rear only. I've seen the front lock on sand at a stop sign. I was standing up with the bike between my feet. Both brakes are your friend. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by jcstokes on 12/23/16 at 12:04:27 Armen, you can do JOG's mod while it's all disassembled. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by hotrod on 12/23/16 at 13:30:01 Use to road race Yamaha SR 500 and SRX600 highly modified for race only. Pocono, Loudon, Summit Point. Never used the rear brake . Did, however use the rear brake to set up corner entry angle to correct a mistake. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Kris01 on 12/23/16 at 15:45:26 353C2C2B30343A2C5F0 wrote:
Sometimes using the rear brake for a bit of oversteer can be beneficial. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/23/16 at 15:54:53 I def use the rear brake, just not that much. When I had the hub apart, I wiped off the parting lines and polished up the outside. I scuffed up the brake drum liner with pretty aggressive sandpaper to help the new shoes bed in. Replaced the stock shoes with EBC ones. Hoping for good results. On the subject of locking up the rear-a few observations: Old nasty shoes don't help the situation. A cheap and/or old tire is WAY more likely to skid/lock up. Crappy and/or worn out shocks make the rear wheel more likely to lose connection with the ground. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/23/16 at 15:55:54 Hotrod, Do you remember a guy named David Goldstein racing an SR500 in AHRMA? Won the SOS Senior championship in '93. -Armen |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/23/16 at 20:13:35 I understand everyone's concerns about the rear brake and in a panic stop I would most likely use it. It's a matter of how one rides , used to be a training thing that has become a habit , some don't feel ok with it but I like only using front binder seems you get better at braking that way and less fearful on it! Most racing associations require a operational rear brake !!! |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by hotrod on 12/23/16 at 21:41:32 Armen; No, I raced AAMRR, in the late 70's , then WERA, and AMA up until 1994. When I found out I didn't bounce anymore, but broke like cheap glass, it was time to go. The only thing I'm fast with now is beer. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/23/16 at 22:34:48 Hotrod , I don't buy that,you have racers blood, most people that ride won't dare race,racers are by a long shot different than those that don't ! There are way better riders than me that don't/won't race? Stupid,no,lack of fear,no,dying,no, it's competing against others,track & yourself,we all grow old , but don't tell me what's left of the racer in you is in a beer can. Be proud that you did it , you are still a racer ! I no longer race either but I can't turn it off , I drive by a track everyday and want to go race.,even if I know winning wasn't going to happen it would be just to get the pre race jitters & adrenaline rush of when they drop the flag, RACERS BLOOD ! Then have that beer ! |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by hotrod on 12/24/16 at 03:37:09 Ruttly : You're right, and explained it well. Was just joking a bit. The track and the street are two different worlds. Two different reasons for using the rear brake. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/24/16 at 11:46:01 Hotrod, I know you were kidding. Just helping you remember who you are. When I raced it was off road where you seldom get on pavement and always used rear brake ,racing on dirt requires a rear brake , but my riding on the street I just don't use it much. You must have a outstanding front brake to start with ! |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by hotrod on 12/24/16 at 19:06:51 Although I would not have worked on the rear brake as Armen did, I do admire the craftsmanship and time involved in such a project. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/25/16 at 00:47:38 Yeah , he has the sickness I often talk about and most of us are inflicted with ! ;D |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Dave on 12/25/16 at 06:06:47 The rear brake topic is one that could potentially be as controversial as "countersteering" or choosing the "best" motor oil! Beginning riders are often intimidated by the front brake, and can rely on the rear brake to do all the work (and some custom bikes remove the front brake entirely). As you become a better rider and learn how to modulate the front and rear brakes to work in unison - your ability to control the bike is far improved and you can stop much faster than you could when you only used the front brake. Most likley you have had an incident or two with using too much front or rear brake, and have learned how to identify areas with gravel, wet pavement, leaves, manholes, and traffic markers that can affect your traction and braking ability. When you move to advance riding/braking situations.....you discover that you can brake really hard and slow down so quickly that there is almost no weight on the rear wheel....and the rear brake can lock up easily. You also learn that some braking can be done while entering or setting up for a corner - but a sliding tire in that situation is never a good thing, and most often it is the rear brake that creates the "Oh Crap" scenario when panic braking or entering a corner. In very aggressive riding/racing...the front brake does all the work and advanced riders use little or no rear brake. I have several friends who are have been road racers and they claim that they seldom use the rear brake on the track. As my riding has progressed I find that when riding aggressively I have started to use the rear brake less and less, and if I use a bit too much.....it can get scary really fast when the rear tires slides - what was a controlled situation suddenly turns into a "survival" scenario. I have read a book written about riding quickly.....and the author discusses the techniques for using the rear brake, and he does support that not using the rear brake is an advanced riding style to be used when riding "quickly". The rear brake on my stock Savage was very touchy....it was hard to modulate (the ST1100 was similar), and it locked up very easily. The Savage now that it is converted to a Cafe' bike is far less sensitive and much easier to apply smoothly. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/16 at 10:33:07 using rear brake on motorcycle Loads of information there. And YOUR tire, YOUR brake, The road, how much front brake is applied already, so many variables.. Tires only have so much resistance to sliding. If you're using 98% of the tires ability to stick with the brake and then expect it to stay stuck to the road when you lean over and add lateral G forces, you're probably gonna be unhappy. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/25/16 at 11:25:51 6A515C4B5A564D4B5058554A390 wrote:
Wait a minute. Are you saying that there is a rear brake on my bike? |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by verslagen1 on 12/25/16 at 11:28:57 5B51555F545D59500E080C3C0 wrote:
Wait a minute. Are you saying that there is a rear brake on my bike?[/quote] You know... that pedal that makes the rear end go sideways. ;D |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by ohiomoto on 12/25/16 at 20:16:42 My original comment wasn't meant to say you have to use your rear brake for general riding. But, you absolutely need a rear brake during a panic stop. It reduces stopping distance, plays an important role in keeping the bike straight and allows you to use the front brake more aggressively. I haven't had an issue with my brake locking up while cornering, but I'm use to stronger brakes on dirt surface. So modulation on pavement isn't an issue for. Plus, I'm not racing my Savage. The only time I locked up the rear wheel on this bike was when someone pulled a U-turn on me and I almost ended up in the bed of his pickup. If I didn't have a rear brake I'm sure I would have hit that jackass. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by ohiomoto on 12/25/16 at 20:25:48 Also my bike skills are more from motocross where you spend a lot of time crashing, almost crashing and generally riding near the edge of control. I've hit the ground many times and saved it even more times. I'm just saying don't underestimate what the rear brake adds to the big picture. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/25/16 at 21:19:29 That's the way I have the most fun is riding , on the edge of control. But one can not ride that way all the time and stay out of jail or the hospital ! Me as well cross country,enduro,marathons,hare scrambles,short track,M/C where the rear brakes get a workout. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Dave on 12/27/16 at 05:00:42 Everyone - One thing I wanted to mention, and it really applies to Armen and his open brake approach - is that after washing the bike your really need to take it out for a ride and dry out the brake. The bike leans to the left when on the kick stand, and the rear brake will hold a small amount of water inside the drum. If you don't take the bike out for a ride and dry this water out - rust will form on the steel brake wearing surface. Then the next time you ride the rust will be worn off by the brakes shoes....and the rust will be embedded into the brake shoe lining (I believe this is what can make the rear brake "grabby" and also cause the brake to squeal when it is applied). Wash the bike, dry it off, then go for a 10 minute or longer ride to get the water out of the brakes, electrical connections, of the top of the cylinder, etc. Ruttly - I agree that spirited riding is a blast.....and I agree that you cannot ride at your 100% limit all the time - you have to keep some reserve for those unexpected situations. It certainly is one of the reasons that you can buy so many used parts for sport bikes on eBay....a larger percentage of them end up being crashed. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by ohiomoto on 12/27/16 at 06:47:55 Funny, because I ride very conservatively on the road. I figure we are about to get killed just by being out there. Besides, if I wanted to ride like that I would have never bought a Savage in the first place. But back on the topic of the Armen's brakes. I think it's really cool that he's shaving weight and build what should prove to be a very unique Savage. I'm looking forward to seeing the what else he has up his sleeve. |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 12/27/16 at 07:58:53 Dave , I agree , but doesn't get any funner than sliding a bike thru the turns. I am now regret not deraking my tracker , but is still a super stable back roads blaster,very road worthy. I learned how to slide on polished pavement in a abandoned warehouse that we had a short track setup in , what fun !! Moto , Trust me Armen will meet his goals on that bike and there won't be another one like it , time will tell ! |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Armen on 12/27/16 at 08:42:39 Hey guys, Thanks for all the positive comments. As always, I can think faster than I can work, so the project is moving along slowly. Off course it doesn't help when I do stuff like spend a bunch of time rebuilding the caliper and drilling the disc, then buy RYCA Shawn's brake kit. Now, off with the old, on with the new, and try to sell the original stuff to make some room.... |
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Title: Re: Probably good that I don't use the rear brake Post by Ruttly on 01/02/17 at 09:20:40 The only mod I did to the rear brake was I drilled a new hole in backing plate where the lever return spring anchors to keep a little tension on lever all the time. The RYCA set up for rear brake left it loose and rattling , so it got redrilled , put some grey silicone in old hole , now spring doesn't rattle and rear brake returns much better ! |
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