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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> The real reason Hillary lost..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1481850030 Message started by raydawg on 12/15/16 at 17:00:30 |
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Title: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/15/16 at 17:00:30 I have read much on why, yet I haven't seen this possibility advanced.... Remember back 4 years ago, Obama was reeling from a disappointing first term, Romney was giving him fits, it was up for grabs. Then came Benghazi. Hillary's emails would most likely not have been an issue, as they had been off the radar screen until, in passing, by chance, in that Benghazi investigation, it was learned of. Obama's ineptness would have cost him the election, maybe. But why take a chance. They scripted that lie, or what we now call, FAKE NEWS..... To cover his ebony arse. It fell all on Hillary. She dug a hole, and had to keep digging, or chance exposure to the truth. She got saddled with what Obama screwed up. He has not learned, either, REDLINE my azz.... FACING 'CONSEQUENCES': Obama admin on defense as Aleppo falls http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/15/obama-administration-on-defense-over-fall-aleppo.html I dunno, but it sure fits a lot of the pieces into the puzzle.... Whadda you think? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by oldNslow on 12/15/16 at 20:05:33 "Obama admin on defense as Aleppo falls" They have good reason to be defensive. And of course all the "Trump is soft on the Russkies and Putin helped him win" bullcrap is a component of that narrative. Take a look at the chart in the link below, and see who you think is closer to the "moral high ground" that everyone jabbers on about, with regard to the debacle taking place in Syria. The US (the Obama admin) got this one just as wrong as they got the situation in Libya. Assad, thanks to Russia. probably isn't going to have to try to hide in a drainage culvert waiting for the " moderate rebels" to discover and kill him though. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-15/nassim-taleb-syrian-war-condensed-almost-dummies |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by mpescatori on 12/15/16 at 23:51:27 My two cents' worth. The Assad Government (calling it a regime, by nations who have more secret intelligence agents than university professors, is hypocrisy) may be totalitarian, but none more so than some "democratic" governments of the western world in the 1950's. Actually, the Syrian government, being of secular orientation and of soviet socialist background, is far more democratic than some "champions of the West" republics. That said, I have access to teh same news channels you have, with the difference I do access those channels. I am not referring to CNN and FoxNews but to the BBC, Al Jazeera in English, etc. Way back before the troubles started, a faction of Syrians was demonstrating for renewed elections. The timeline is easily available for anyone caring to doublecheck their current beliefs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703995 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-civil-war-timeline-tracking-five-years-of-conflict-a6929411.html I will add that under Assad, Saddam Hussein etc. the Christian minorities led a quiet life; then, after "help to from democracies of the West" they were persecuted, deported, sold into slavery, murdered etc. ::) Hmmm... so whom should we be thankful for ? ::) May I remind you that since 2011 US mercenaries went off on field trips to fight against Assad... Southern baptists fighting alongside Islamic extremists ? >:( Are you aware that the Syrian Army more than once captured US Army, USMC and even Israeli "consultants" in the course of battles with Islamic insurgents? Do you not realize that this (the presence of foreign consultants advising insurgents) tantamounts to acts of war according to international law ? And the White House still expects the world to believe "the US are fighting for democracy" ? This table really says it all ! Quote:
:-? :-? :-? I am somehow skeptical... |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/16/16 at 03:03:31 Thanks pezzy for your input, always appreciated. I will look into your links when I get time. Why this sudden, or not so sudden, influx of displaced folk from this region of conflict has baffled me..... Have we seen anything like it before in the world? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by mpescatori on 12/16/16 at 07:48:14 6F7C64797C6A7A1D0 wrote:
My wife is a medical doctor and she says the number of infertile Young couples is rising at an alarming rate. On the other hand, immigration (90% of which illegal) from subsaharan (=Black) Africa is rising, at an average of 150000 (150thousand!) / year arranean and into Italy alone. I also believe I read of Africans immigrating into America through the Mexican border, although this sounds a lot like a hoax. Still, the big news is, these people are 100% muslims, and guess which rich oil-producing muslim nations are funding this immigration flux, yet refusing to host even just one in their own countries? Yup ! Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates... all friends of the White House... :-/... |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/16/16 at 08:06:26 One of your links, on the timeline credits this uprising to pa Assad not making a Muslim mandatory to lead Syria.... Is that right? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by mpescatori on 12/17/16 at 11:10:17 Bashar al Assad grew up as the second born and went to University in London and became a dentist. At the death of his Father his older Brother was destined to be Head of State. Unfortunately (for bashar's Brother) things didn't go that way. Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think. They are both secular and defend women's rights as well as those of cultural and religious minorities. They are both nations with free health care and educaiton all the way up to College. They will both issue passports and their citizens are free to roam the world. All this applied to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, by the way, until he went rogue and invaded Kuwait. (actually, he was entitled to do so much more than Gen. Austin was entitled to invade Texas, but tghat's another story) Things went sour when the US invaded Iraq and started pumping Iraqi oil (without paying any of it) and expected to use Syrian pipelines. Assad said "sure, you'll have to pay "rent". More than natural, it's business. GWB didn't want to pay. No weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, no weapons of any kind in Syria, but "someone" still found a way to start a war where no war was required nor wanted by anyone :P |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/17/16 at 11:51:27 Maybe my assertions about our involvement in the Arab Spring, the Bengazi arms deal, and the Ooopsies, we can't find Isis to bomb them, ooopsies, that airdrop went right to Isis.. Our Smart bombs and hypersophisticated drones to destroy ONLY what must be destroyed SOMEHOW failed us while we were so intent on improving the lives of the Libyan people, because we destroyed the WORLDS LARGEST IRRIGATION SYSTEM.. Anyone who is willing to go outside the bubble can investigate what living in Libya was like. Ohhh and look at how we have helped. Gadaffi TOLD the U.N. If you eliminate me, the refugees will flood into Europe. The refugee crisis isn't an Unintended Consequence. Order out of chaos. Problem Reaction Solution Gee, Libya was on the list in 2001. And only 14 years later, we started hearing about WHY we had to be involved. Open the eyes,people |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by WebsterMark on 12/17/16 at 12:50:08 Things went sour when the US invaded Iraq and started pumping Iraqi oil (without paying any of it) and expected to use Syrian pipelines. Assad said "sure, you'll have to pay "rent". More than natural, it's business. GWB didn't want to pay Yea, that sounds like bull$hit.... |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/17/16 at 18:21:24 203D283E2E2C39223F244D0 wrote:
And as to: “ …defend women’s rights as well as those of cultural and religious minorities….” Really ? Have not heard on the news, here, of a Israelite, Beheading a female, or Stoning her to death, or cutting off her clit with a piece of broken glass, or, raping her, or having sex with a pre teen. Or, Beheading a female, or Stoning her to death, or throwing Acid on her face, because she did not wear a full face covering. Have not heard of, a (alternate Lifestyle), person being, Be headed, Stoned to death, or thrown off a building. Have Not heard of a, ‘Christian’ faith, person, NOT, Be headed, Stoned to death, or thrown off a building, (because they did not believe, the, ‘muslin’ faith. Perhaps, in Italy, the ’news’ say something different ? And: “ … this applied to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, by the way, until he went rogue…” So ALL, the ‘Humanitarian', Aid, from SEVERAL Countries, which was for the, ‘People’, was NOT, Intercepted by, Hussein, for his, "GOLD Toilet SEATS”, and the like ? OK, Got it LLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Oh, BTY, How Many, Syrian, refugees, you have living in YOUR House ? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/17/16 at 18:29:22 766B7E68787A6F7469721B0 wrote:
Did not know, you collected, 'history' books from that time period. |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 11:25:43 Pesci has been around and looking at things, apparently through clear lenses. I'm comfortable in believing he could educate us regarding Austins invasion. Our history books glorify and justify everything we do. We are indoctrinated into the bubble. It's not easy to get out, and once Out, finding factual information that conflicts with and replaces the propaganda/indoctrination isn't easy. That said Directional drilling was tapping into the oil that rightfully belonged to Saddam. He asked our state department if they would care if he fought them over it. Response? Hey, that's your affair. Do what you think you should do. That's not part of the talking points, is it? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/18/16 at 11:45:56 3C2325223F3809390931232F64560 wrote:
Yeah, I'll go along with Jog on this.... I am not saying Pezzy is right, but I see no harm in challenging ones beliefs, even history. Everyone tells a story with their own perspective, which is ripe with prejudice. Look at Global warming as a good example. If you challenge the findings, disagree, etc, you are not allowed to engage, you are minimized, ridiculed, and labeled.... Tell me, how does such behavior lead to understanding if we are afraid to shine the light on our own beliefs? So, Pezzy, I give you permission, to continue ;D |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 13:01:48 I'm not granting permission, I'm straight up Asking him to Please,elaborate on the point about Austin and the invasion. And please, do the elementary school version and start with why he shouldn't have done it. What made him think it was right? I've been reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican–American_War Best I can tell, American people had gone into Mexico in the region that is now Texas and the political climate of Mexico and how things were working out for the Americans just wasn't satisfactory to them. I'm not going to try to write a book. The question I have remains, who alerted Austin to the need for help, who did Austin work for, where was his authority to go into what was then Mexico, and on and on. What IF our governmental approach to foreign settlers changed and America became hostile to the Mexicans here illegally and the Mexican government sent troops to protect their interests? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/18/16 at 13:19:26 You can't rewind the clock dude..... To compare then, with now, though technically the same, we have progressed against the expansionism mindset of those who days for a more civilized approach. |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 15:20:20 An argument for what? Rewind the clock? What are you trying to get at? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/18/16 at 16:25:40 The statement: “ Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think." W.T.F. ??? Don’t remember any Jews, Beheading, Stoning, Raping, throwing people off buildings. (For not believing what they believe) Must have miss that news. Than the, ’tossed out’, comment: “ (actually, he was entitled to do so much more than Gen. Austin was entitled to invade Texas, but tghat’s another story)” From a person, whose Country, has a history, of pillaging, bribing, looting, and raping. Cut off heads, put them on poles, so it was easier to collect, ’taxes’, so they can do it again, and, ‘expand’ a empire. Would like to hear, his, ’take’ on Austin. And while at it, his take, on Fremont, guided by Carson, and his, view, on what he did on the 3 West Expeditions. 1842-46 Does all that early American History, matter today? Does what the Romans did, matter today? Does what the, Crusaders did, matter today? (In a way, yea, but we have Already Learned, from History. Well most have) Today ? We got Bigger problems. Would, ’some’, things, be done differently, today. Most Probably. And a ‘view’, from a person, who knows little, about early, (West), American History, is Irrelevant. But to, ’state’, that, Israel & Syria, Today, are ‘close’ in their, ‘Human Rights’, dealings. WTF Mpes, Has had insightful thoughts. Outside of quoting, (Pages & Pages), of webs sites, about 500 + year old things that are not relevant today. (We have already, learned those lessons) But to, ’state’, that, Israel & Syria, Today, are ‘close’ in their, ‘Human Rights’, dealings. WTF |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 16:41:10 Ask yourself Where are my facts from? Now, unless I have been there, unless I KNOW. I'm at least gonna listen to someone who has a whole different perspective. I'd be interested in seeing how the comparison works out. |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by raydawg on 12/18/16 at 17:24:44 Yo Springer..... What matters today is what they want to matter today, like, Trumpy was a stupid doe doe bird talking about the election being tampered with... They called him stooge, stupid, and a fool. He got very little press willing to scrutinize the possibility. Clinton loses.... Toss chit on the wall. See what sticks. Not much. Running out of chit. Throw tampering with election result chit on wall.... Now it matters. So, was Trump right all along? Will they admit they were wrong? No, that doesn't matter now. We need to just toss more chit. Bill power frucked chicks using his position. It didn't matter. It was only sex. An intern gives him hummer.... It doesn't matter. It was only sex. Trump talked, like most of us guys, about snatch. Grabbing it. Enjoying it. Man exhibiting all his ugly horndawg talk.... THAT MATTERS.... EVEN IF IT WAS MANY YEARS AGO.... Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/18/16 at 17:28:47 544B4D4A5750615161594B470C3E0 wrote:
Where are my facts from? On Romans, Crusades, Early West American History. Would be the same books and Web sites. Now, unless I have been there, unless I KNOW. I am not that old, and I don’t thinks Meeps is that old. I'm at least gonna listen to someone who has a whole different perspective. Different POV’s would be Just like the Last Election ! I’d be interested in seeing how the comparison works out. So would I, So Would I. My, Early West American history, come from old books. (And Meps will look up thing on the, new, web) Also, I have, ‘oral Tradition’, from time spent in AZ, in talking to old people, who’s, Grandfathers, said, ’this or that’. True, or Not ???? But you KNOW, their is, a kernel of truth to those, recounting. Syria, like Israel ? Both, reading the SAME News ! Which comes down to, ‘al gore, ’the sky is falling’ to: ’still coming out of the last Ice Age’. Meeps, Please tell us how, Israeli, DEMANDS, that everyone, believe, what they believe, and if you do not, you will be KILLED ! |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/18/16 at 18:34:26 23302835302636510 wrote:
Well, from the, ‘Country Mouse’ to the, ‘City Slicker’. From the statement of, ‘YOU ARE RACIEST”, (the campaining in the 08, 12 elections) Seeing Local Government, ‘PAID THE PALMS’. Etc, etc, etc., All Personal Experiences. I think I understand. And, a while ago, when I stated I was in Italy, Early 70’s as a ’Tourist’. And said I did Not go to, Sicily, because, local Italians said, ‘If You Go, you will Never Come Back” And Meeps, told me, “He went, and it is Perfectly All Right”. Not considering the, ‘Rest Of the Story’, (aka Paul Harvey) A American, (Identified by looks, dress, and lack of the Italian Language) vs, a, Italian, fluent in the Language, ((Identified by looks, dress, and fluent in the Language) IN the Early 70’s !!!!!!! Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? Think I understand. The, Refugees, (Which many are, True Refugees) Yet MANY, are, ’Trojan Horse’, and NOW, it IS, Proven in Europe and America. it it SO. Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? I Think I understand. The, (as to Refugees), “Not in MY Back Yard, But YOURS” Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? I Think I understand. The Reason, ‘we’ (Americans, have to give up freedom, for safety) Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? I Think I understand. It all comes down to, “History’. A County, which HUNG, (Red handed, caught), Cattle/Horse thief’s, NOW. vs a County, which, dillydallied, and let the, ’Thieves’, Sit in a jail, tell they were broke out of it, by their, ‘buddies’. Which County, would you, STEAL, Cows/Horses from? Does this help you to understand and clarify the insanity? I Think I understand. |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 19:19:27 e statement: “ Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think How is it POSSIBLE to think I was talking about history of centuries ago? |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by Trippah on 12/19/16 at 06:58:01 If you have any questions as to what drives our foreign policy, look who has been chosen to be our next Secretary of State. ;) |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/19/16 at 14:43:50 Just another bomb throwing wingnut The DECISION to invade six or seven countries was made public by Wesley Clarke. The DECISION was MADE in September of 2001. Now, you can expound with your great wisdom and insight as to just exactly WHO is driving our foreign policy. |
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Title: Re: The real reason Hillary lost..... Post by MnSpring on 12/19/16 at 16:56:31 332E3B2D3D3F2A312C375E0 wrote:
" ...Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think. ..." I would really like to know, 'why', you think on this one, is so ! " ... (actually, he was entitled to do so much more than Gen. Austin was entitled to invade Texas, but tghat’s another story)..." I would really like to know, what your opinion is, on this one? Then if you have time, perhaps, your opinion, on, Mussolini ? |
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