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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1481640337 Message started by philthymike on 12/13/16 at 06:45:37 |
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Title: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/13/16 at 06:45:37 Tomorrow I am taking my little Thumpy to the mechanic for the big bore and cam install. I can't do it myself, not enough tools and no garage so I'm biting the bullet and laying out for the work to be done by a competent motorcycle mechanic. I have the Big Bore kit from Windsor which comes with a properly sized head gasket, piston rings + pin as well as the cylinder jug and piston. I have the cam and some assembly lube for it plus a printout of the clearances checklist. And I'm having a gasket kit for the engine fedexed to the shop. For materials I think he'll be all set. He's done big bore kits and cams before and knows to check clearances and adjust valve lash etc. He's worked on Suzukis before. A couple M109's, a S50 and their various sport bikes but not an LS650. What sorts of LS650 specific things might I want to tell him to watch out for? Are there any peculiarities he might want to know about before starting the job? |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/16 at 06:50:48 Get a Versy and head plug. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Dave on 12/13/16 at 07:10:06 He doesn't need to worry about checking piston/valve clearance - all the parts from Wiseco and WebCam work together without any issues. The Webcam will have different valve lash clearance than the stock cam - so he needs to adjust the valves to what the WebCam specs are that should be included with the cam. He should used the proper Suzukibond or similar products from Yamaha or Honda....not an RTV from the auto parts store. The official stuff sets up much slower and gives you time to work at installing the head cover. What do you know about the health of your cam chain? Have you installed a Verslagen tensioner....how far is the plunger extended? 20 mm out and you are about to have a failure. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/13/16 at 07:18:52 I will ask him to check that chain then. If the tensioner is alright for now I'll put that off for the spring servicing. I had the 11,000 mile maintenance done by Suzuki last month and they didn't say anything about it. I'll check back with them today and see if they even looked at it. Suzuki replaced the head plug last month, that I do know. He won't have to take it out will he? I'll mention the Suzukibond to him. I think the clearances checklist has the lash details. Anything else? |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Dave on 12/13/16 at 07:29:43 5048494C5448594D494B45200 wrote:
Most Suzuki dealers don't know much about the care and feeding of the Savage. They most likely didn't check the cam chain tensioner. If your dealer put a stock rubber head plug back in the bike - it will eventually fail again. You might want to install the Versy plug while the bike is apart - and never have to worry about it again. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/13/16 at 07:38:16 Ok good info! Thanks! That's pretty negligent on the part of Suzuki! I like the mechanic at my dealership though, he's a good guy. I'll call and ask him about it at lunch today. he said the old plug was fine he just replaced it just in case. When I get the bike back I intend to ride it around enough to ensure proper breakin of the new engine parts. Then weather permitting, take a few joyrides before putting it to bed for the remainder of the winter. When Spring rolls in then I'll be doing a bunch more work to the bike again. One item on my list is taking the crankcase covers off to be powder coated. So I'll be tearing the engine down a bit then anyways. At that time I can replace the tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/16 at 08:02:59 Service manual doesn't call for sealant on the head plug. Reality does. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/13/16 at 09:27:20 Ok so he's going to watch out for the chain issue. The mechanic says he can modify the tensioner plunger if it seems necessary. And thankfully the gasket kit has crankcase cover gaskets in it too. The Suzuki mechanic did not check the chain. He did put sealant on the new plug he installed though. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Kris01 on 12/13/16 at 18:04:04 Do you trust your mechanic to not use too much sealant and clog the oil passages? Most guys I know really pile it on thick to ensure a leak free seal. Not a good thing! |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/20/16 at 09:00:48 Just got the call - the mechanic is putting Thumpy's engine back together and may have it done by this evening. He's been sending me pictures and videos of the work so far and everything looks great. He's checked the cam chain, sprockets and tensioner and reports they are all well within Suzuki's specs too. When he's done buttoning it up he's going to play around with different pilot jets to see what works best for the now bigger motor if it doesn't run as well as expected. . I'd already upped the main jet when I added the Dyna muffler because I had alot of surging past half throttle. The jet change got rid of it. He's checking all clearances as he goes and he'll adjust the valve lash according to Webcam when he gets there later. I'm excitied!!!! :) And I'm very appreciative of this guy's constant communication and updates. Helps keep me from worrying too much about my best buddy. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Kris01 on 12/20/16 at 19:06:30 FYI, the white spacer mod will work better for you than upping the size of the main jet. Well, that is if your bike spends most of its time off a race track. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/21/16 at 06:54:33 Thanks. I've been meaning to do it but thought I would wait till the engine mods got put in. It's on my list. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Dave on 12/21/16 at 07:05:20 The bigger/badder piston, camshaft and DYNA muffler really don't change the jetting requirements much. I had the same setup, and I spent a lot of time getting the jetting correct, and I used an air/fuel meter to confirm the jetting. My engine ran best on a #50 pilot, #150 main, and 2 washers on the needle (there was a lean surge at low throttle settings with 3 washers on the needle). I ride at an elevation of 500 - 825 msl.....so if you are below that you might need a larger pilot - a 52.5 is the largest jet you should ever need if you are running the stock filter system. If your cam is new.....avoid any idling for the first 15 minutes after the engine is started. Then for the next 500 miles be easy on the piston/cylinder.....no full throttle interstate trips, you should vary the speeds and do some runs rolling the throttle on/off to help seat the rings. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/21/16 at 12:43:28 It had a flat spot right at the throttle position for holding a steady 30 mph but it varied with temperature. On colder days it was worse than on warm days and humidity seemed to have an affect too. In general the bike ran better overall when it was damp. My old 67 econoline was like that too. Should I avoid the highway when I ride it home from the shop? I have about 35 miles to go... |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Dave on 12/21/16 at 13:03:57 756D6C69716D7C686C6E60050 wrote:
I would....the first hour is most likely the most critical time for the piston/cylinder to get to know each other. It is important to vary the rpm and throttle during the break in period....and you likely can't do that when you are at the mercy of the other traffic on the highway. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/23/16 at 14:37:27 6C747570687465717577791C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/24/16 at 08:54:11 Here's a pic of the bad cam lobe. The other lobe looks alright. Any ideas as to the cause of this? |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by LANCER on 12/25/16 at 05:33:28 That's some pretty bad pitting. I've seen it on some camshafts with fairly low mileage so I think it is something that is at least marginally common. It can be used for a while as is but I would suggest replacing it at some point. It can be fixed with hard welding the lobes and then regrinding. The end result is better than the original stock. If you want to replace it now I have Stage 3 camshafts on hand. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by Dave on 12/25/16 at 05:43:23 Some have suggested that that kind of pitting is caused when the bike has been stored for a long period of time, and rust built up on the surface. Lancer.....I believe he already has a new cam installed based on what he said in the first post. Don't throw that worn cam away.....it can be used as a core for a welded and reground cam. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by LANCER on 12/25/16 at 06:58:11 I had forgotten that, thanks Dave. Yep, DO NOT THROW IT AWAY. Those old cam cores are hard to find. It's worth $50 to me, to be able to use it in making Stage 3's. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/25/16 at 07:38:29 This was the original stock cam with 12,400 miles on it. I put in a new stage 2 cam from webcam and have to send them this for the core. I paid a $50 deposit for it. My 1st thought was that some debris got into the engine causing this but then it would be elsewhere and not just on the one lobe. The original piston and cylinder look good as new except a little carbon buildup. If anybody has a need for those parts I can go get them from the mechanic anytime. As for the bike being stored a long time I can't say with certainty if it had been. I bought it used from a person who claimed he commuted regularly with it but who knows... |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/26/16 at 06:33:39 So I went for a nice christmas ride yesterday. I took Route 1 out to Chadds Ford PA and then proceeded to ride up the length of Creek Rd. along the Brandywine Creek. Thanks to some winter riding gear I received for X-mas I was nice and toasty during this 4 hour ride. Creek road is a blast to ride, with lots of winding twists and turns. I did the entire road in 3rd gear! I didn't have to shift at all except to stop at intersections. Best part is that I had the road to myself mostly. What a good time! Along the highway parts of route 1 I found I can easily keep speed going up the bigger hills without having to lay on more throttle and overtaking cagers was no sweat. In 4th gear I hit 65 at about 1/4 throttle. And there's plenty of power left. I've yet to do 5th gear. I just haven't needed it. I've inspected the bike before, during and after the ride and cannot find anything wrong with it. No leaks or anything. This mechanic did a solid job on the engine and his little tweaks on other parts of the bike have tightened it up nice. It's running perfectly. The new power band is a dream. it puts plenty of useful power where the bike needed it most. My shifting foot is much less busy too now. My only complaint so far is that my license plate has start buzzing at certain RPM's. Nothing a little double-sided tape and a strip of foam rubber won't fix. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/16 at 10:09:26 I rode behind the 05 my girl was riding. I thought my eyes had gone crazy, at a certain RPM the rear fender shook Violently, enough to blur the license plate. Until then I didn't understand why the license plates sometimes crack. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by old.indian on 12/26/16 at 12:05:11 #1 The pitting on the cam lobe is due to rust. (I've run into the same thing on some of the old cars I've restored (The rear differential etc..) #2 Something is loose to have that much vibration. I have no noticeable vibration in my (modified) '07 S40 at any RPM. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/16 at 16:34:18 I never felt or heard anything that indicated something was loose and I was trying after I saw the fender shake. Harmonic vibrations can get wild. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/27/16 at 09:06:56 I went over the bike thoroughly and didn't find anything loose. If I flick the license plate with my finger it vibrates with the same sound I am hearing while riding. And I noticed one of the mounting screws is missing the rubber washer the other one has. I'll replace it. If that pitting is rust I guess the bike must have sat prior to my purchasing it. I guess you can never trust what a seller tells you about what they're selling. |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/27/16 at 16:03:18 I'm a virgin, but for $100.00, you can change that... |
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Title: Re: Big Bore + Cam Info for Mechanic? Post by philthymike on 12/27/16 at 17:04:55 All the bike work + holidays has left me a little light in the wallet, would ya settle for $5.27? ;) |
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