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Message started by bobbertom on 12/09/16 at 15:32:01

Title: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/09/16 at 15:32:01

hi there my names tom and iv recently started buying and selling motorcycles for the last year or so and iv never joined up to a forum ever since i started riding 10 years ago. so here goes iv been sat on a suzuki savage ls 650 1994 model for the past 6 month bought it from a friend of mine that pretty much did all the work on the bike and decided he needed quick cash so i bought it from him and hopefully turn it over for a small profit. when i got the motorcycle it would only turn over via the solenoid as he had some wiring to tidy up which he said he would do at a later date. WHICH NEVER HAPPENED! so after i got repair jobs out of the way and other projects i put my head into it and solved the wiring up towards the top end near the headlight what a nightmare different coloured wires meeting other coloured wires due to internal wired handlebars so it was a case of touching wires to c what happens >:( at first there was only highbeam and parking light then got lowbeam eventually also two short yellow wires which connected together. plug the rest in in side headlight all worked apart from theres no horn on the bike leaving only one wire which usually theres two as far as i no so.... bike on hit the start button NOTHING!!! clearly never worked on the button or maybe solenoid was snookerd with jumping it?? only clicking via the solenoid and the main black square relay under where the tank goes.( when i took plug from the relay 6 pronges on relay. 6 wires but two going into 1terminal (blk and white) so only 5 terminals going into a 6 pronge relay??? also there is no block connector going to the cdi there all individual terminals connecting to each pronge?? :-? so...... new battery replaced the solenoid with it clicking BOOOOOOM! IT TURNS OVER ON THE BUTTON ...... BUT STILL WONT START!!! checked all electrics with multimeter ht lead, coil readings everything seemed fine. bypassed all switch clutch,side stand switch, nothing works with kill switch off when turned back on everything turns fine i even pulled all the switch gear apart cleaned the start button,spring and points of contact.checked the kill switch with bulb tester pen all fine. on bulb lights up off bulb is out . soo replaced the coil came today. got into the garage tonight put the coil on ( aftermarket one)!!!! cant see why i wouldnt get a spark AND YET AGAIN no spark!!!!. so if theres anybody out there who's took the time to read this i appreciate it and would like your opinions maybe there;s something some motorhead nos what i dont or what the problem maybe or has had similar problems with one of there 650's didnt no f all about these until i bought her.now i could name every size bolt thats holding her together lol. coool ride safe brothers!! and thanks again!!! :D

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls6 sparking problems!!
Post by batman on 12/09/16 at 17:23:23

BT,I think you need to go through the electrical system,you can find diagrams in the Technical References section (to the right one page back)under electrical. you also need to check the battery voltage when the starter is engaged ,if the voltage drops below 10volts the motor turns over but the voltage is to low to provide spark.You can jump it off another vehicle's battery (don't have it running ,you'll fry the bike)

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls6 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/09/16 at 18:23:43

Shoot ether into the intake
Check battery voltage While the Start button is lushed.
If it won't try to run on ether you either don't have spark or compression.
Report findings.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls6 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/10/16 at 01:47:12

Ok guys iv stuck battery on charge I will check voltage when button is pushed in when fully charged. The most annoying thing is when I got the motorcycle it turned over great and ticked over fine. Before it stopped starting up when i eventually attached cables to the bike i kicked it in gear and it instantly cut out could this have anything to do with it? I thought that would be electrical,switches ect. Bikes always in neutral when I trying starting also the bike does go through all the gears so it's just getting her to spark. I did read on the internet that the decompression solenoid could cause starting problems but iv never had to deal with one so as that got anything to do with it too? I'll update later and thanks for reply. :D

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by verslagen1 on 12/10/16 at 08:22:58

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302#12

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/10/16 at 12:02:11

Update!!!! Hi lads battery been on charge with trickle charger readings of 14.4v 0.87 amps. Fitted to bike and multimeter reading of 13.5 key on stayed steady at 13.5 hit start button drops to 10.2 then shot straight back up to 12.3 12.4 and held at that. Key off and starts climbing to 12. 4. 5 .6 so I was thinking should I start pulling connectors of terminals out and clean them all down? Or strip the harness? Thanks.regards tom :'(

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/10/16 at 12:21:31

start button drops to 10.2 then shot straight back up to 12.3 12.4 and held at that. Key off and starts climbing to 12

When the voltage
Shot straight back up
were you still holding the Start button down?

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by batman on 12/10/16 at 12:40:24

When you had the bike running and then dropped it in gear,if the sidestand was down the bike would shut off .(that's how it works ) you have to have it up before putting it in gear. The idle on these bikes should be 1000rpm at least to have oil flow to the cam,and don't let it idle sitting on the sidestand ,as oil will not be delivered evenly to the valve /cam and cause damage.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by Mr.T on 12/10/16 at 14:34:18

A battery at rest, sitting at least 15 minutes off the charger, will read 12.6 volts when fairly new. It should not drop under 10.5 during the starting cycle. If so, replace. This, however, has nothing to do a running bike as it runs off the stator, not the battery. Unless the stator or the wiring is wonky.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by Mr.T on 12/10/16 at 14:42:51

Also, agree with Batman: If the bike is in neutral, kickstand down, clutch pulled in, it will start and run. In gear, kickstand up, clutch in, it will also start and run. Kick down and in gear , bike will not start or run.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/10/16 at 16:06:36

i dont no were youve got me saying sidestand was down i always kickmy side stand up before kicking in gear as thats how my motorcycle. i ride works. everytime iv tryed sidestand is up iv even left the switch bypassed to be on the safe side. if i have said iv left it down i apologize. yes it dropped for a second to 10v then stayed steady whilst the button was pressed in at over 12 v

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/10/16 at 16:22:27

very much doubt its the battery this is the second one iv got for this motorcycle . it was the old battery before any of this happend that started the bike. . after the starting problems what occured resulting in having to replace the solenoid ,coils i replaced the battery too with it been sat awhile. thats a good point tho bike was ticked over alot on the sidestand? thanks

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/10/16 at 17:16:28

5B444245585F6E5E6E56444803310 wrote:

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/11/16 at 11:01:30

Yes that's with holding button in. Meter stayed at 12.5

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/16 at 13:57:23

Okay, you SHOULD have spark with that voltage.
Shoot ether under the seat where the intake snorkel is.
If it bucks and snorts, you have a fuel problem.
If not, your spark plug might not be good.
You can pop the side tin off and open up the air filter to shoot ether in, and you can check out the air filter.

Do you have a timing light?
You can check to see if the coil is firing the plug.
There has been enough done to question whether you are getting spark. If it's never run since you started working on the wiring, you should prove you're getting spark. I don't pull the plug for that. I Want the system burdened with the compression. I stick a plug in the plug wire and ground it.
In your case, I'd be happy to see spark on the plug that is in it, first,

But I would start with ether.

If you have emptied the carb bowl or it's been sitting long enough to evaporate, put it on prime.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/12/16 at 11:34:54

Thanks Justin iv had a day off and gone back to her tnyt checked alll power to relays block connecters ect everything is defo getting power so I'm going to buy a new plug this week to rule the plug out. Iv even put the multimeter up the plug cap and grounded it and theres voltage reading.checked with bulb tester that there's power to the two coil wires and there is. So seems to me it's either the plug or cdi. As far as fuel fuel defo getting through into carb as the bowl is full when I try draining it from below
Thanks

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/16 at 20:59:45

Until you SHOOT ETHER IN IT you Know squat.
You Believe,

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/13/16 at 08:45:15

Whats the meaning of Ether??? Im from england UK mate not Texas lol I thought ur wording was spelt wrong and ment either not ether haha my bad ;D

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/13/16 at 08:51:47

Is it our version of easy start which is basically fuel in a spray can ??

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/16 at 09:33:28

AKA starting fluid... basically any fuel in a vapor form so as to bypass the carb.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/16 at 10:06:13

Diesel engines don't want to start in cold weather. Ether is the main part of starting fluid. Auto parts stores have it here.
Truck stops should.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by sauvage on 12/14/16 at 01:21:59

Ha, I was wondering what you guys meant by 'ether' too. So you just meant gas, I've got a bottle of diethyl ether here but that would prolly not be a good idea to squirt into a hot bike or even a very warm bike!

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/14/16 at 06:59:04

ok thanks iv tryed that and theres nothing. there is definatly no spark so i am waiting on a new spark plug to come. iv even pulled the new coil apart and check continuity on the lead itself the plug cap and its all showing signs of good coil im doubting now weather the old one has packed in because it was reading ok but did have a few cracks on it so glad i replaced. iv checked the orange and white wire from the cdi to the coil and there is reading so theres no breakage in the wire. when i try a new spark if there is still no spark what could it possibly be? thanks

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/14/16 at 10:36:09

CDI BOX-- as i said previously my cdi box has all the pins connected seperatly as there is no male block connector on the harness to attach it. iv drawn a plan today of how it is set up with each pin going to the box. iv checked each wire individually with multimeter to check theres continuity and no breakage in the wires! all wires read between 1.3 ohms and 1.5 ohms all but 1 wire its a grey quilterd material outter casing wire reading of 2.0 ohms and leads up to under tank to a 1 pin connecter and then it leads back down to a wire that leads into the back of the right crankcae and i dont no what this wire is for. can anybody help?
PLUS if anybody has a 94 ls 650 can you please help me and take your cdi off to check which wire goes to which pin as maybe my pins might be going to the wrong terminals as i think the cdi boxes changed in 95 to a double connector to the cdi.mine is suppose to be a single connector. my box has 9 pins. thanks.tom

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/16 at 10:51:13

150E0C5058585112101408130412610 wrote:

1 wire its a grey quilterd material outter casing wire reading of 2.0 ohms and leads up to under tank to a 1 pin connecter and then it leads back down to a wire that leads into the back of the right crankcae and i dont no what this wire is for. can anybody help?

The blue wire connected to the back of the clutch cover is a neutral switch.
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/safetycircuit.jpg

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/16 at 13:22:22

Pulling the tank is a hassle. I would get it to fire up before I put it back on.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/15/16 at 07:48:16

Tanks been off ever since iv had spark problems tried new spark plug today still no spark. So new coil new plug i give up i ain't a clue now. Iv even checked continuity from stator that's fine. So .... God nose whats up with her

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by batman on 12/15/16 at 17:54:24

BT,you said a while back(top of this page) that you stuck a probe up the sparkplug boot and to ground and read voltage ? ,you shouldn't be reading anything unless the coil is shorted out.I think you have a bad coil!

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/17/16 at 10:07:44

ye i did that at same time as pressing the start button i think just to see if there were power coming through. i have replaced the coil as well as the plug and there is nothing no spark at all. i checked all wires on the harness and they all seem fine. iv even cleaned most of the terminals in the blocks. so bikes going to have to sit awhile untill i can afford a new ecu im afraid. really dont no what else i can do to be honest batman. would like to say thanks to every1 who has commented and helped me on here and MERRY CHRISTMAS! thanks guys.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/17/16 at 11:34:22

When you say
No spark
Exactly what are you doing to test for spark.

Have you checked the voltage to the coil?
Have you checked the ground?

Where is the plug that you can See there is no sppark?

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by batman on 12/18/16 at 17:14:40

Have you traced the two wires that come from the pickup coil, they run behind the front belt pulley ,then up to the cdi. If there not run right or the retainer near the shifter cover isn't right they could be cut by the pulley or the belt.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 19:11:36

HOLY FRICTION FRIED INSULATION, Batman!

Will we see another innocent circuit shorted?

Will Batman be able to bring those unruly electrons under control?

Will bobbertom Ever get his spark back?

Tune in next week for the answers to these questions
In the

That's what She said
episode.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/20/16 at 14:46:06

Got a second hand cdi today 20 quid exactly the same setup all but a extra pin. Plugged the cdi up in the same order as the the old 1. There's spark but only every now and again (not so often at all) . So checked new coil and old coil only sparks on the new one every now and again.defo hasn't started. To answer the question of how I'm testing is....spark plug in the head new spark plug in the cap grounded to a clean part of the head iv tried plug held so it's touching the head and also a few mm away from it. Something new iv found out tonight though if I have two certain wires connected to the cdi black and yellow and black and white. Then touch orange and white or the grey just slightly over the pins with the spark plug grounded I get spark. But only on certain pins. >:(

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by SALB on 12/20/16 at 15:51:54

27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by batman on 12/20/16 at 20:57:06

Is JOG bustin' on me? Tune in tomorrow ,same bat time , same bat station! :) :) :) :) :) (If the plug fires sometimes ,why doesn't it fire all the time? Maybe due to the pickup coil wires being damaged and grounding intermittently do to vibrations from the starter motor,maybe not,but I'd look. It seems that he's looked everywhere else, and he's tried two coils /plugs/cdi's what's left? logic tells me that the only way the CDI is firing the plug intermittently is the signal from the pickup coil is intermittent.)

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/21/16 at 09:38:37

I had nothing to loose so iv opened up the old cdi box and it's frazzled in the bottom leftt corner where looks like a little black fuse with 3 prongs. So i opened up the 20 pound 1 I got to replace it as there's two in that one. But still nothing so... What advise would yougive me batman replace with a original one or can they be rebuild or fixed?

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by verslagen1 on 12/21/16 at 11:38:52

766D6F333B3B327173776B706771020 wrote:

not easy but here's the info you need...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302/0

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by bobbertom on 12/21/16 at 15:30:27

ok thanks for the info. mines melted in the same place main black square like yours and at the left side of the black square you have a small and larger risister if thats what they are ?mine i have 2 small ones which are burnt plus the large blue one at the side of them is burnt too. the ones that have heat shrink look fine on mine. but on the otherside (soldered side). some of the green board has lifted so is there anyway of repairing that? regards....bobbertom.

Title: Re: suzuki savage ls650 sparking problems!!
Post by verslagen1 on 12/21/16 at 15:50:02

i'm just the messenger, don't shoot.

I would just get another myself. keep your eyes peel on fleabay and about.
they come up every so often, sometimes cheap.

Like the link said, most burn up cause the key has been left on till the bat is dead.
after 20 years or so, the solder joints and caps go bad. resistance is futile.

If the one you bought doesn't match the harness, then it'll start, but won't run right cause the timing is different on the rotor. Fix for that is get the same year rotor, then all's fine.