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Message started by kojones on 11/24/16 at 04:03:47

Title: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 11/24/16 at 04:03:47

Long story short, removed my valves yesterday for check and found these marks on intake valves.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7h295i9a1jocrc/2016-11-23%2021.21.13.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1gaglxqrld8lz8/2016-11-23%2021.20.12.jpg?dl=0

Slight marks on exhaust valves too, but I have to check if they're bent or not.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Ruttly on 11/24/16 at 07:19:52

Marks look like they are too far up the stem to affect guide or seals
That maybe from when they were installed,marks made by spring keeper
Just smooth them off so you don't cut the new seals,but I'm super picky I would change them all
It's your choice,if you reuse them by sure to lap the valves!

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Mr.T on 11/24/16 at 08:43:30

Short answer: No. As mentioned, lap, assemble and ride while you can. Winter is coming.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Ruttly on 11/24/16 at 10:04:03

Shorter answer:don't forget new stem seals,assemble,ride

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 11/26/16 at 02:14:07

Thanks everyone. The winter is already here, no rush to ride before April.

Have to get those valves measured and hope that there's one bent that could be the issue of the intermittent knocking on the engine. If not, I have to split the case.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Dave on 11/26/16 at 03:33:52

Valves tick....they are too small and light to make much of a knock, and if they are sticking the performance usually suffers badly.

Before you split the case too look for a knock - check the flywheel nut. Two members on the forum have had loose flywheel nuts and it allows the crank/flywheel to make a sound that starts out as a tick - but develops into a loud knock as the nut gets looser. The knock is loudest at idle and the sound lessens as the rpm increases. My bike was one of the bikes with the loose nut, and it started ticking at 400 miles and was horribly loud by 1,000 miles.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Armen on 11/26/16 at 07:14:31

How many miles on the bike? Have to wonder how that notch got there.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Armen on 11/26/16 at 07:17:56

Not sure why'd you split the cases to look for a knock. Pop the left engine cover off and try moving the alternator up and down, then in and out. Main bearings will let you know they aren't happy. Remove the right side and look for the usual cam chain stuff, and try the same wiggling on the right side of the crank.
If you are still at a loss, you can pull the top end, hold the crank steady and try moving the rod up and down.
Look for something loose somewhere.
If you are lucky, Dave is correct ;)

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/14/16 at 05:22:57

One intake valve is visibly bent, easily checked with a drill. Others seem fine.

Replacing that should get rid of the knocking, have to check if I have to replace the valve guide, too.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/14/16 at 05:28:14

If I had the head off of my bike, I'd be hard pressed not to remove the exhaust bridge, polish the ports, and make sure the seats are angled properly.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/14/16 at 06:37:38

060C08020900040D535551610 wrote:

If I had the head off of my bike, I'd be hard pressed not to remove the exhaust bridge, polish the ports, and make sure the seats are angled properly.

And that's exactly what I'm going to do ;)

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/16 at 06:59:35

Howcum the valve got bent is a question I'd be scratching my head over.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/14/16 at 08:25:57

7C6365627F7849794971636F24160 wrote:

Howcum the valve got bent is a question I'd be scratching my head over.

AFAIK the cam chain tensioner has failed at some point, PO replaced the chain but obviously didn't remove the valves to see if they're bent or not. Piston had valve marks on top of it, already replaced the piston as it was wayy under wear limits.

So, all modifications include a Wiseco 95mm piston, DR cam shaft, the ring removed from exhaust port and a Dyna muffler with a 1,5 inch header if I can get one. I'm also considering to purchase a Mikuni VM36 8-)

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/14/16 at 09:46:05

484C494C4D4650230 wrote:
So, all modifications include a Wiseco 95mm piston, DR cam shaft, the ring removed from exhaust port and a Dyna muffler with a 1,5 inch header if I can get one. I'm also considering to purchase a Mikuni VM36 8-)

Sounds like a runner to me.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by LANCER on 12/15/16 at 21:24:28

7672777273786E1D0 wrote:

One intake valve is visibly bent, easily checked with a drill. Others seem fine.

Replacing that should get rid of the knocking, have to check if I have to replace the valve guide, too.

guides are cheap and replacing them is pretty cheap also, and considering you have at least one bent valve I would replace all of them just as a matter of good course...take no chances. I would also consider replacing all of the valves if you have any question at all about their condition.

The DR cam shaft has a lot of lift and a decent amount of added duration so you should see a substantial improvement in performance. Your exhaust ports will be the limiting factor.
MAC is now producing a header with a 1.75" ID and it is a little large for my taste but with the cam you have it may work pretty well. I think the cost on it is just over $200 which is not bad. You might consider that, unless you are building one yourself.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/18/16 at 09:33:06

Too much clearance in all of them so better to replace them all, valves and guides. Springs were good, that's the good thing. The exhaust valves are quite expensive, hope they last another 30000 miles ;)

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 09:58:39

Exhaust valves are sometimes sodium filled. And they Are expensive.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/18/16 at 11:01:52

57484E4954536252625A48440F3D0 wrote:

Exhaust valves are sometimes sodium filled. And they Are expensive.

Sodium filled? That's interesting.

DR valves are much cheaper for some reason, any experience if those would fit?

LS650 12911-24B01 and 12912-24B01
DR650 12911-12D00 and 12912-37400

The exhaust guides seem to be same as in DR500 and the intake guides the same as DR750 and DR800 :-?

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Kris01 on 12/18/16 at 11:32:06

342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:

Exhaust valves are sometimes sodium filled. And they Are expensive.

That's for cooling. Are ours sodium filled? I wouldn't think so.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 11:44:05

Even if they fit perfectly, NOT using the stock valve is begging for disaster, unless they are the same material or one that is More able to handle heat. The exhaust sphincter on the Savage needs a lot of work to get the hot gasses past.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/18/16 at 11:47:46

786761667B7C4D7D4D75676B20120 wrote:

I was wondering if they are the same exact part with a different parts number.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 13:07:23

I guess anything is possible. When I was doing autobody repair we put countless Buick or some such fenders on Cadillacs.
Exactly the same part, different number, bunches of dollars less.
It's worth looking into if it's time to replace them.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/19/16 at 00:59:12

Spend a little time with google yesterday and saved over 100$ on valves.

I found a Japanese company called Vesrah, they manufacture valves for our bike. They're not that easy to find, sold out almost everywhere.

http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/list/product_parts.asp
The GG-3031-IN / -EX are for Savage http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/catalog/shape/GG-3031.html

Some dealers list it suitable for Savage and DR650 90-95 :o

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Dave on 12/19/16 at 04:42:43

I had seen the Vesrah brand before.....I thought it sounded like the parts came from India.

I am curious how the quality would compare to the stock valves.....you don't want the top coming off!

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by Dave on 12/19/16 at 05:06:48

4D494C49484355260 wrote:

DR valves are much cheaper for some reason, any experience if those would fit?
LS650 12911-24B01 and 12912-24B01
DR650 12911-12D00 and 12912-37400

I looked in your Vesrah catalog link, and the DR650 valves for the 1996-2015 DR650 have thinner stems (5.5 vs. 7.00 mm), and the overall length is different. Vesrah doesn't list the DR650 valves for the 1990-1995 DR650 which could be the same, as they do use the same camshaft style and the valve guides are the same - however the part number for the valves are different in the Suzuki parts list. The price for the DR650 exhaust valve is listed as $57.34, and the LS650 valve is about $ 11 higher....not a huge difference.

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by kojones on 12/19/16 at 11:02:55

4F74796E7F73686E757D706F1C0 wrote:

I had seen the Vesrah brand before.....I thought it sounded like the parts came from India.

I am curious how the quality would compare to the stock valves.....you don't want the top coming off!

We'll see when I get those valves, 5-6 weeks for delivery and I have to go and pick them up from our neighbouring country ;D

Someone suggested that Vesrah makes Suzuki valves, too ::)

Title: Re: Do I need new valves?
Post by LANCER on 12/19/16 at 16:56:30

Versa makes a lot of valves and other parts for all makes and models of Japanese bikes but I cannot confirm from my parts catalog that we have common valves between the DR (90-95) & LS.