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Message started by Drestakil on 10/31/16 at 18:21:16

Title: Ethanol free gas
Post by Drestakil on 10/31/16 at 18:21:16

The recent posts about the petcock and it's problems probably being related to ethanol in gasoline got me to doing google searches on the subject. There are no gas stations in Illinois that don't sell ethanol as far as I know but that doesn't mean I have to use the crap. Check this out:

http://www.accessnorton.com/make-your-own-ethanol-free-gasoline-t14970.html

2 cups of distilled water to 5 gals. of gas. Add a few drops of food coloring to the water and it's easier to see the separation. Ethanol is supposed to be especially harmful to 2-stroke bikes, like my newly acquired and much loved DS7.

I may have to use ethanol on longer trips when I refuel from the pump but that crap will drained from the tank and put in my pickup as soon as I get home.

Anyway, I thought I'd post this for those wanting to use the stock petcock on their bikes.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Dave on 11/01/16 at 03:22:01

I am not convinced that stripping ethanol fuel out of E10 is really that easy. There are other additives in the gasoline that could be stripped out with the ethanol, and the gasoline will retain a small amount of the water in solution....and it is possible that the absorbed water could be as damaging as the ethanol. I think it would be far better just to use an ethanol treatment in the fuel.....the E10 doesn't cause any harm as long as you don't let the fuel sit in the tank for extended periods without a preservative (Stihl recommends draining the tank if the equipment will not be used for 2 months).

Here is a site that provides information on where you can get ethanol free fuel. The number of Marinas that carry ethanol free fuel has increased substantially......however this fuel most likely won't be carrying and road tax - so you will have to buy it in a can and then transfer it over to your bike when no one is watching.
http://pure-gas.org/

I run my bike all year on the E10 pump gas....and the vacuum petcock is the only part of our fuel system that seems to be sensitive to the ethanol. I turn the Raptor petcock off when I am 1/2 mile from home, and the engine is dying as I pull into my driveway....this keeps as little fuel in the float bowl as possible. When winter comes I drain all the E10 out of my tank, and I then put in a small amount of Avgas 100LL just to flush the system out, and I go for a short ride....then I drain out the Avgas and put the bike away for the winter. (Avgas has no ethanol and it evaporates without leaving any varnish behind....but it does have lead so don't use it in any engine with a catalytic converter).

Here is how you can test your fuel to see if there is any ethanol in it.....and it basically is done the same way you are proposing to use to strip the ethanol out. The water does work to do this - I just don't know about the quality of the gasoline that is left behind.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1339974217

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Drestakil on 11/01/16 at 04:14:15

I'm still going to try it. Especially for my 2-stroke engines where the ethanol is especially bad. I haven't found any site that lists the negative effects of removing ethanol that you've mentioned. I don't have a problem with using ethanol blend in my car or pickup (the van is diesel so no worries there) but the DS7 is a Sunday funday ride that does sit a lot. 15000 miles in 44 years before I got it is a lot of sitting. The same for the generator I have. I don't use it for power every day and I think keeping it full of ethanol free gas with a little Sta-Bil is better for the tank than letting is sit empty.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/01/16 at 05:01:19

5C676A7D6C607B7D666E637C0F0 wrote:
There are other additives in the gasoline that could be stripped out with the ethanol, and the gasoline will retain a small amount of the water in solution....and it is possible that the absorbed water could be as damaging as the ethanol.

I heard you can burn the water off with propane torch ::)

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Dave on 11/01/16 at 05:14:47

I got really obsessed with this topic a while back, and I did a long term fuel test. I tried to replicate the conditions that caused the fuel problems in stored equipment.....like log splitters, generators, leaf blowers, chainsaws, snow blowers, tillers...all the equipment that goes for periods of time without being used. In the old days the carbs would gum up when the fuel went bad - with E10 the carbs become badly corroded and some of the rubber parts dissolve.

The end result is that I found the untreated E10 can begin the phase separation in as little as 50 days.....and that all fuels will eventually go bad (Avgas is the exception).
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1382699778

I believe it is better to store unused equipment empty, and when my summer equipment is no longer needed, the fuel is drained and the engine is run until the carb is out of fuel. I have also started to use Sta-Bil fogging oil in the engine to protect the cylinder from corrosion over the winter, and protect the cylinder for the first startup in the spring. The method is the same for the winter equipment - but they are just now coming out of storage (log splitter, chainsaws). My generator has a small amount of Avgas in the tank - but the fuel valve is closed and the carb is empty.......I can start it up by turning on the fuel valve and letting the Avgas run to the carb, and then add E10 pump gas for extended operation (the E10 will be removed again before storage). I realize this is a somewhat labor intensive chore to drain out the fuel - but I no longer have to remove the carbs and clean them to get the equipment running again.

For my 2 cycle equipment I mix up the fuel in 1 gallon batches, and use it up regularly. If the equipment is not going to be used for an extended period....the fuel comes out of the tank and the engine is idled until it runs out of fuel.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by stewmills on 11/01/16 at 06:45:33

Thankfully we have a couple of non-ethanol stations I have access to. I don't use them every time, but do try to use them if and when I can.

5852565C575E5A530D0B0F3F0 wrote:

I heard you can burn the water off with propane torch ::)

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Ruttly on 11/01/16 at 12:28:08

You both have it wrong you have to use a pressure cooker ! ;D ;D ;D

Do not try this at home , go to a friends house !

Just kidding !!!

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Rodger on 11/01/16 at 13:00:08

Jeeeez, just when "Turkey Fryer Home Fires" are about to start popping up on the evening news....

SCAREY STUFF, here... :-/

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by HAPPYDAN on 11/01/16 at 16:17:02

You might consider this stuff:
http://trufuel50.com/product-info/4-cycle/
Which might be OK if your dirt bike uses a built-in oil tank. I use their 50:1 mix for 2-stroke engines (weed whacker, snow blower) and it works great. It is expensive, but has a long shelf life perfect for occasional use. I get it from Lowe's, but it's also available at Walmart, Amazon, Home Depot, etc.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Bobber on 11/01/16 at 17:03:16

Sta-bil and all is well, stock petcock 97.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Drestakil on 11/01/16 at 17:24:36

282F3E2C36323737285B0 wrote:

Thankfully we have a couple of non-ethanol stations I have access to. I don't use them every time, but do try to use them if and when I can.

[quote author=5852565C575E5A530D0B0F3F0 link=1477963276/0#3 date=1478001679]I heard you can burn the water off with propane torch ::)

I heard that if you slowly bring the gasoline to a boil, in something like a fish fryer, that the ethanol evaporates off first, so as soon as it is at a full boil you have pure gasoline.

JUST KIDDING! Don't try this you silly folks. [/quote]

That's not nearly as effective as you think it would be. Plus, the firemen told me I probably shouldn't do that anymore.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by batman on 11/02/16 at 21:49:17

In my area you can buy ethanol free gas but only in 91 octane ,at about$.50 cents more a gallon .If I ride 3000 miles a year I've spent $60 extra on fuel for a bike that runs just as well on 87 octane.SO....save your money,buy a raptor an run the cheap stuff worry free.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Drestakil on 11/03/16 at 04:52:02

4D4E5B424E411B172F0 wrote:

That fine for my S40 because I have the raptor. Not so fine for my 2-stroke engines. "Two-strokes have additional problems due to the fact that ethanol breaks down the effective lubrication of fuel/oil mixtures, leading to seizures." (taken from Dec 2012 Motorcycle Consumer News)

What I'm really wondering about now is if the resulting water/ethanol mix that's removed will burn. Or if it will somehow separate over time so I can burn the ethanol. Shouldn't be to hard to build a little heater for my shop if I can get the water out of the ethanol.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by HAPPYDAN on 11/03/16 at 09:07:34

All this talk of "removing" ethanol from gas has my old fart safety side concerned. I do not wish to see you make an "ash" of yourself ::). Here's another cheaper example of pre-packaged fuel that may save effort and injury:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W9595L4/ref=dra_a_cs_hp_hn_xx_P1400_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=c083c5e3127cd23b0565f6b9e17bac4a_S
Apparently Husquvarna already addressed the issue and they are in agreement with your info: Ethanol is death to the 2-stroke engine, and additives apparently don't help much. They make their own version of fuel, somewhat more expensive. Good luck and don't blow yourself...up!

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by batman on 11/03/16 at 10:06:40

I run a husquvarna 455 chain saw on ethanol gas and have been cutting 20 face for five years,but I run almost twice the oil in my mix as called for.I think more is better in this case,what could happen ,carbon plugging the muffler or fouled plug? much better to deal with than a frozen piston.

Title: Re: Ethanol free gas
Post by Drestakil on 11/03/16 at 13:53:10

6261746D616E3438000 wrote:

I've thought about that, too. I might just adjust the oil injector pump to give it a little more oil. That and a little StaBil to the gas. It would solve the problem of trying to get rid of the ethanol and water (and probably a few gasoline additives) in an environmentally friendly way.

For the two-stroke chainsaw and weed eater there's is supposed to be a station that sells E0 about 90 miles away. A couple of 5 gal. cans would probably do me for a year or so.