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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> First time cleaning carbs, what else? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1477615101 Message started by marccarrion on 10/27/16 at 17:38:20 |
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Title: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/27/16 at 17:38:20 Hi, I have a 2003 LS650, no mods. I got the bike a year ago used. And it has been working on and off. The only maintenance I've done is change of oil and air filter. I got it to the shop for new tires. That's about it. The bike is very picky starting. One day no problem, next day it won't start. Pushing the power button I can hear the battery and sometimes the engine starts revving but it dies in less than a second. Sometimes the engine does not rev at all... I leave, come later in the day and it starts at the first try... or it used... now it is not starting again. So, I finally decided learning to do some more maintenace myself. I removed the seat and the tank (ok... not very impresive... but for a first timer, very exciting)... now I'm going to take the battery out and the spark plug... since it's open, why not? and the carbs, and then I'll proceed to clean the carbs. Aside from replacing the battery and the spark plug (any recommendations on what to use as replacement) I'm going to install a battery tender. Any other suggestions on what should I do since it is already open? Remember that I am a newbie :D, and that I don't have shop or garage with fancy tools :D Thanks!!!! Looking forward learning from everyone in this forum. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Drestakil on 10/27/16 at 17:46:08 Welcome aboard! If you put where you're from there might be a member close enough to give you a little help. Does your bike already have the Raptor petcock? (If it does, it says On - Off - Res. No PRI on the Raptor) If it has the original petcock, I would start there before messing with the carb. Good luck, Ken |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/27/16 at 18:13:49 Thanks Ken, that's a good idea, I'm in Alexandria/Springfield, VA. I think I have the stock petcock (on,res,pri). You are saying replace the petcock and not touch the carbs yet? reassemble the tank and seat, and see if the bike would start better? I guess I can try that, Yamaha raptor 660 petcock, correct? And what do you use to "block off the vacuum tap on the carb" Thanks!! |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Drestakil on 10/27/16 at 18:33:19 I bought a 5 pack of rubber plugs at Autozone to cover the vacuum tap. They don't seem to last very long, though. Maybe a year and they're cracked and ready to fall off. I'll probably have to replace it with a short piece of vacuum line plugged with a small bolt when I use up all of these. When that stock petcock goes bad, and they often do, it can cause all sorts of weird problems. A lot of people on here swap them out even if the stock one is still good, including me. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/27/16 at 22:55:23 Road grime lands down in the cavity the spark plug is in. Check/ clean out before pulling the plug. My 05 would Not start if I twisted the gas. The 02doesn't mind if I do. The 05, first start of the day, even if it was August and 110 degrees, gonna need the choke. The 02, Gary told me when I bought it, Choke it and it Will Not start. 50 degrees, fires right up. Before you go digging into it, spend more time messing with it. Be sure the battery is charged and healthy. A flaky battery can spin it over, but the spark plug might not fire. If you don't know how old the battery is, what kind it is, then start there. Either take it to be tested or check the voltage, and check it while you're pushing the Start button, too. If it's old and a lead/acid type, it might be low on water.. If I don't Know the medical history of a battery in a bike without a kickstarter , I would have it tested, if it's an expensive, nice battery. It's just a cheap one,I'd get it tested to see if it's a likely source of my problem, but even if it's Okay, I'd replace it and get a darn good battery on it. Gary put a cheap one on the one I got, but it's new and has a year warranty,, I plan on putting a good one in before Spring. If you're putting it in gear with the sidestand down, it will die. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/28/16 at 04:26:13 Thanks Justin, that's why I thought it would be a good idea to change the battery and the spark plug anyway. Make sure those are not part of the problem. One more question, does the factory petcock have a filter? when you replace it for the raptor, do you add a filter? Thanks!! |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Dave on 10/28/16 at 05:20:26 777B6879797B68687375741A0 wrote:
The factory petcock and raptor both have screens on the topside that goes into the fuel tank. The carb also have a screen on the top side of the seat for the float needle. I don't run an additional filter, and some who have added filters ended up causing problems as the small inlet/outlet fittings can "air-lock" in this gravity fuel system and prevent fuel flow. (Some members do run an additional filter without any problems....make sure you don't get one with small 1/4" fittings). http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211846392 |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 05:33:23 262A3928282A39392224254B0 wrote:
Make sure you are using full choke when starting a cold engine. Also, don't touch the throttle until the engine is running, and even then it's not necessary until you remove the choke circuit (which should stay on for 15-60 seconds depending on temperature). 262A3928282A39392224254B0 wrote:
There is only one, so "carb" will do. The advice given about changing the petcock to a Raptor unit is good advice. The OEM unit fails. If the bike sat for a long period without being ridden prior to your purchase, there is a good chance that the carb needs to be cleaned. The screws that hold the float bowl and slide cap can be difficult to remove because they aren't actually phillips heads (even though they look like they are). You can buy and use a JIS screwdriver, but here is my suggestion; Use a long (12" or longer) screw driver that is in good shape, and use a lot of down force when turning the screw. This has worked for me 100% of the time for over 4 decades. Once the screws are out...throw them in the garbage and replace them with SS cap screws that you can buy at the local ace hardware store. There is a lot of good info on this site about cleaning the carb. I suggest you read the data as there are a few "good to know" type things. If you can get the tank off...you can clean a carb. I've been doing it since I was 12 years old. If a dumb kid can do it, so can you. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/28/16 at 06:57:29 I never knew there was a difference between JIS and Phillips!! Thanks!! I ordered the petcock, should be here next week, and I'll go get a JIS Screwdriver and go ahead and clean the carb too. Eventually I need to learn it right :D Also, is it worth to get a carb repair kit? Or I won't know until I open it and see the condition that it is in? Marc |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 07:50:01 More than likely, you just need a good cleaning. If you are happy with the jetting (no bogging or surging) thee isn't a need for a kit. Of course, if you are experiencing bogging or surging it could be a result of a clogged circuit. At this point, I'd just clean it. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/28/16 at 08:55:47 Removing the carb is not as easy, I think I have all cables out, but the thing does not move much. The battery box is also very close to it, no much room to pull even if I was able to move it. Any advise? Right now it is still sitting between the two tubes and it seems that it's not going to go anywhere. Marc |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 09:15:31 Loosen the front and rear clamps, move them out of the way, turn it 90 degrees and twist it out. While the carb is off the bike, stuff a rag in the intake boot so nothing finds it's way into the engine. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by stewmills on 10/28/16 at 09:22:07 Apologies if this was noted (didn't have time to read everyone's detailed posts), but make sure you open up the plug to the air/mix screw if it hasn't been already. This allows you to adjust the air/fuel mixture at idle. That may help with any issues getting smooth running at idle. See this link for more info. BE CAREFUL not to damage the screw that's under the plug, it's brass and can get chewed up easily if you are too aggressive. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221818822/0#0 |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 10/28/16 at 10:05:43 I have tried turning it 90 degrees clockwise (from riding position) and the top hits the frame... it can't turn :( I read someone had to remove the top before removing it, is that normal? Marc |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/28/16 at 10:24:15 OK, if turn and twist didn't work, then it's move back (towards the airbox) until the front of the body clears the boot, then twist it to the side. It's not a delicate flower, so it's ok to man-handle it to get it out. Don't be afraid to drive it hard towards the airbox. Make sure that the fuel line is disconnected, the throttle cable is disconnected, and the two vent lines are free (leave them in place, just disconnect them from the carb body). |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by stewmills on 10/28/16 at 11:32:59 ...and don't lose that little clip that holds the throttle cable. It is always a great habit to put a towel under the carb (really, it's putting a cover OVER the starter area) so little things don't get lost dropping down under the starter. Ask us how we know! |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by ero4444 on 10/29/16 at 19:39:22 29253627272536362D2B2A440 wrote:
It is not too hard to remove the battery box while you work on the carb, take off the cover, disconnect and remove the battery, and remove 4 bolts in the bottom of the box. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by verslagen1 on 10/29/16 at 19:55:35 7F68752E2E2E2E1A0 wrote:
It is not too hard to remove the battery box while you work on the carb, take off the cover, disconnect and remove the battery, and remove 4 bolts in the bottom of the box. [/quote] Easy enough, just pull the bat box back with a strap. hook one strap on the right upper shock mount, run the strap around the front of the bat box, then to the rear axle. tighten up till it clears the bottom of the carb. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Steve H on 10/31/16 at 18:04:12 On the one occasion I have had to remove my carb, I just removed the battery box. Take out the battery and 4 bolts at the bottom of the box and it's completely out of your way. It's nice having the room to work. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 11/07/16 at 07:23:07 Hi, thanks for all the responses, I think I'll remove the battery box to get some room. Not planning to do this daily, so, doing it one time should be fine :D Also, thanks Gary for pointing me out where to find the clymer manual. I can not respond to PMs yet :) but I'll definitely get it. Marc |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 11/10/16 at 11:29:26 Got the petcock and changed it... the bike is put together again (I installed a battery tender connection to the battery so I can connect it to the battery tender or plug the phone). But it is not starting, I'm assuming gas needs to make it to the carb first, do I need to do anything for that to happen, or let it sit a little bit? Marc |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Dave on 11/10/16 at 12:18:08 The Raptor petcock only takes about 5 seconds to fill the fuel line and float bowl (once you turn it to ON or RES). You don't have an add-on inline filter do you? Sometimes those can airlock and prevent the fuel flow to the carb. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/10/16 at 12:46:54 Is the switch on the handlebar set to "Run"? |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by verslagen1 on 11/10/16 at 13:50:17 Occasionally, members have said they couldn't get it started till they used starting fluid after carb work. BTW, if it's not on 'run' the starter button doesn't work. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 11/10/16 at 16:31:27 jajajaja, yes, the handlebar button is on. And the kickstand is up. And I have it in neutral and the clutch disengaged :D so, it should start... at this point I'm starting to suspect is battery. I will get a new battery tomorrow and see if that is the problem :D |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by marccarrion on 11/21/16 at 10:26:23 Ok, I've been out of the country for bit but back home. The battery charged ok so I did not have to buy a new one, and the bike started right away. Then I left and I just came back a week later, and the bike started right away again (with the choke). So, I think that was it, the petcock! Now I just need to get some winter gear so I can enjoy some riding around here. Thanks!!! |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by LANCER on 11/21/16 at 15:42:59 HOO HOO HOO !!! Congrats ! Forgot something. If/when you do need to clean a carb you should get a carb cleaning tool. It is a set of tiny wires made to clean jets and to get into all of the very tiny passageways in the carb body. Costs about $12. Those passageways are essential for fuel or air movement, and if clogged your carb WILL NOT work as advertised and Will Cause you all kinds of frustration when jetting & tuning. |
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Title: Re: First time cleaning carbs, what else? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/21/16 at 23:04:32 If you didn't set the petcock to prime, the bowl is empty. Ether is cheap. |
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