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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1477542020 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 10/26/16 at 21:20:20 |
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Title: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/26/16 at 21:20:20 The average premium increase masks wide variation among the states. In Arizona, the benchmark plan's average premium will increase 116% in 2017. Arizona had the lowest rates of any state this year, said Kathryn Martin, an acting assistant secretary at the U.S. But, NOBODY predicted such... What Did become of that You can keep your doctor. Keep your plan. AND, save$2,500.00/YEAR!!! ???????????? I wonder how many who supported this pineapple suppository can admit the pain they inflicted on their fellow citizens. Too bad the pain and loss can't be reserved just for them. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by Serowbot on 10/26/16 at 22:26:20 Oh dear!... this halfassed, for-profit, mandated, fix isn't working?... Jeepers, who'da thunk'd?... We better fix it... Maybe with a national health like every other civilized nation in the world has had for nearly 50 years... I wonder why Hillary or Obama didn't think of this in the first place?... Oh, right...... They did.... :-? Oh right,... we did... Medicare... for everyone... ...or should we go back to paying even more than Obamacare, to HMO's that want nothing more than to deny you coverage if your health hurts their bottom line?... (rates were rising even faster before Obamacare)... HMO's are great for healthy people... ....and healthy people are great for HMO's... Just don't get sick... Seriously,... how many people do you know, that were denied coverage,from HMO's?... Of those who have had serious, or chronic, illness... it is most... This is unimaginable in most of the civilized world... Estonia,... is ahead of us... Can you find them on a map?.. ..but, they have better healthcare.. We don't need to make America great again... we need to catch up... |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/26/16 at 23:45:43 Like schools, everything was dandy before someone Announced that We have PROBLEMS. Before we Had HMOs, a single guy could have a BCBS card for about $35.00/month. I walked into offices all over Texas . No Ohh, shux, you're out of network. Just How can we help you? The economy The schools The medical system All sabotaged. Heads will roll if they can't steal it for her. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/27/16 at 03:06:38 5D4B5C41594C415A2E0 wrote:
Why lie? Why not tell the folks the truth right out of the bag? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by MnSpring on 10/27/16 at 17:25:31 7E687F627A6F62790D0 wrote:
Would that be one, where people WAIT, for 6 MONTHS, Then DIE, in three. Because then can NOT Get a Appointment ???? Because all the People, that need a 'Aspirin' for a Headache, are in front of them ? Is That the One, you think is Best ???? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/27/16 at 22:01:04 It was working great, till they Fixed it. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by LostArtist on 10/28/16 at 18:26:13 534C4A4D50576656665E4C400B390 wrote:
you really believe that? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by MnSpring on 10/28/16 at 18:49:40 1734282F1A292F32282F5B0 wrote:
OK, what part of: "... the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, ... " do you not agree with ? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/29/16 at 02:40:24 52716D6A5F6C6A776D6A1E0 wrote:
you really believe that? [/quote] Pre HMO, insurance was affordable and deductibles were low. And how they choose to read the interstate commerce clause is stupid. I agree Spring |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/29/16 at 05:36:02 It sounds really great to just say "why can't we catch up to the rest of the world and have a national healthcare, single payer system".... but as it's been pointed out by many over and over, we are not like the rest of the world. There is no nation with the complexities of the USA. I was in Miami all week at our company's national meeting. We had people from all over the world. As someone pointed out, there were more people within 50 miles of Miami than in the western providences of Canada combined. California alone has had more people than the entire nation of Canada since 2009. You can fit France inside of Texas. With a smaller % of the world's population, we are directly involved in 25% of the economics of the world and who knows how much indirectly; 75%? Just because England can have "Free" healthcare, doesn't mean the US can. And site Medicare all you want, but almost everyone on Medicare pays for Medicare supplement insurance. Why? Because the coverage is not comprehensive. Obama had a mandate to do something about healthcare 8 years ago, but instead of gradual changes that would have actually accomplished something, he drove the wedge between conservatives and liberals even further by forcing a policy down the nation's throat (at midnight if you recall) that is doing nothing but making things worse. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/29/16 at 06:06:59 43607C7B4E7D7B667C7B0F0 wrote:
you really believe that? [/quote] Why lie..... Answer that one pal? Why not the truth from the get go? C'mon, you is so smart, why lie? Look at Clinton now, see how lies impact people? WHY tiger, why? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by Serowbot on 10/29/16 at 07:19:55 774542535445526D41524B200 wrote:
How does size or population make any difference?... More people equals more money... Take the English system and times it by four... Per capita is the same... Dumb argument... -"We can't have roads because our country is too big"... ::) |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/29/16 at 07:27:44 5543544951444952260 wrote:
How does size or population make any difference?... More people equals more money... Take the English system and times it by four... Per capita is the same... Dumb argument... -"We can't have roads because our country is too big"... ::)[/quote] Why lie? Why lie about the truth of cost, etc? Why? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/29/16 at 10:07:04 4A5C4B564E5B564D390 wrote:
How does size or population make any difference?... More people equals more money... Take the English system and times it by four... Per capita is the same... Dumb argument... -"We can't have roads because our country is too big"... ::)[/quote] Dumber argument... What works on one place, will work in all, so just go ahead and implement it. Don't worry, it will be fine. Why did/is obamacare failing so badly? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/29/16 at 10:16:36 4553445941545942360 wrote:
How does size or population make any difference?... More people equals more money... Take the English system and times it by four... Per capita is the same... Dumb argument... -"We can't have roads because our country is too big"... ::)[/quote] ............................................................. The UK has a larger population than Canada. Canada is larger than the US. "Just because England can have "Free" healthcare, doesn't mean the US can. " Why? Mark, try statistics (or even logistics) when you feel it's relevant ..... but ask yourself why the rest of the civilized world has had a Health Service for the last half a century, as Bot said. Oh, for MnS, I received 'free' hospital care in an old 'Eastern-bloc' country within minutes, not months, and have had ongoing 'free' treatment back home (and much more still to come). Neither of those countries have the 'Euro' currency. I didn't have or need health insurance. Can't the most powerful country in the world be able to heal it's sick because of it's landmass, Mark? In my opinion, one measure of a country's 'greatness' is how it treats it's sick and elderly. I'm sure the Japanese said something like that, at least. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/29/16 at 11:18:21 Do you think solutions are automatically scalable upwards? Why, since Obamacare failed, do you believe a larger, more comprehensive program, would succeed? Is there a population wide social program operated by the US government that's successful? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/29/16 at 11:54:09 "Do you think solutions are automatically scalable upwards?" No. Why? Europe has twice the population of the USA; many more language 'barriers' and different currencies, yet still it works. Is the most powerful nation on Earth unable to coordinate a system because it is too big? All that is being questioned, Mark, is your notion that the size of the USA would prohibit a healthcare system that would put it on par with, as Bot said, the majority of the civilized nations on Earth. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/29/16 at 13:19:05 I think I said the complexity of the US in addition to size, Why did Obamacare fail? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by Serowbot on 10/29/16 at 14:30:26 457770616677605F736079120 wrote:
We're not that complex,.. to Europeans we're practically retarded... ;D Obamacare hasn't failed,... but, it's not a National health... National health is a single payer government program... It works because there is no middleman sucking up a third of the profits... And there is no "opt-out's" "opt-in's" for HMO's... HMO's are gone... Everyone contributes, everyone's covered, for everything... always... Life expectancy, quality of life, cost per person,.. every measure of health,.. improves for everyone... and no one goes bankrupt paying bills... The latter helps other elements of the economy immeasurably... I've used British healthcare, and it is excellent... Brit's would revolt before letting it go... Perhaps the most cherished benefit of government in most countries that have it... It works... Think about it... Profit is at least 50% for most any business... You get a service... HMO's want to make 50%... hospitals want to make 50%,.. Doctors want to make 50%... This isn't pay, it's profit for shareholders... With a National Health... you are the shareholder, and your "profit" is the healthcare... |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/29/16 at 14:44:27 6771667B63767B60140 wrote:
We're not that complex,.. to Europeans we're practically retarded... ;D Obamacare hasn't failed,... but, it's not a National health... National health is a single payer government program... It works because there is no middleman sucking up a third of the profits... And there is no "opt-out's" "opt-in's" for HMO's... HMO's are gone... Everyone contributes, everyone's covered, for everything... always... Life expectancy, quality of life, cost per person,.. every measure of health,.. improves for everyone... and no one goes bankrupt paying bills... The latter helps other elements of the economy immeasurably... I've used British healthcare, and it is excellent... Brit's would revolt before letting it go... Perhaps the most cherished benefit of government in most countries that have it... It works... Think about it... Profit is at least 50% for most any business... You get a service... HMO's want to make 50%... hospitals want to make 50%,.. Doctors want to make 50%... This isn't pay, it's profit for shareholders... With a National Health... you are the shareholder, and your "profit" is the healthcare...[/quote] why lie......???? Why couldn't Obama tell the truth about cost, keeping you care, etc? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/29/16 at 16:11:27 "I think I said the complexity of the US in addition to size.." ....................................................................... Maybe organizing anything in the 50-ish countries of Europe, with their many many different native languages, and many different currencies is much less complex than organizing, say, a similar sized country with 50-ish different states, a nation with a common language and currency. Once again you are right, Mark. I totally agree. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/29/16 at 16:51:51 13342D32280B293E28373E225B0 wrote:
How does your system work? Who pats for it? How do you find out about coverage? Choices of doctors, etc? Medical records? Can you give us a summary? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/29/16 at 18:10:44 Think about it... Profit is at least 50% for most any business... You get a service... HMO's want to make 50%... hospitals want to make 50%,.. Doctors want to make 50%... This isn't pay, it's profit for shareholders... With a National Health... you are the shareholder, and your "profit" is the healthcare... 50? Are you insane? You think the typical profit is 50%? You should probably stop,talking now. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/30/16 at 04:51:28 05223B243E1D3F283E2128344D0 wrote:
Ask the average European a few questions about tne US and they are likely to know quite a bit. When I meet my European colleagues and they ask where I'm from, I say St. Louis, on the Mississippi, right smack dab in the middle of the country etc.... and they already know most of that. Ask the average American about a city in Europe of corresponding size and you're just as likely to get a blank stare. Now, the condescending European will retort with the usual dumb, backward, ugly American comments, but is that really the case? How about this instead: you HAVE to know about me, I don't have to know about you. The point is, the US is the 800lb gorilla in the room. We are the King. The world revolves around us, not the other way around. Does Europe " still work" as you say? Questionable at best. Much of your defense is provided by the US. The only reason you can afford to lay back and enjoy your craddle to grave social welfare programs is due to that and the fact you've been busy replacing the children you can't be bothered to have with immigrants who don't have your atheist viewpoints. You've opened your gates and invited the Trojan Horse in and you even knew what was inside it! The world needs a US population that fights to survive and that includes something as simple as handling our own insurance issues. It's not that darn hard to get a job and work. We don't need an emasculated population that hands control of our lives over to the State. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/30/16 at 07:27:43 293A223F3A2C3C5B0 wrote:
How does your system work? Who pays for it? How do you find out about coverage? Choices of doctors, etc? Medical records? Can you give us a summary? Thanks![/quote] Gee, why do I feel I am standing in a line, to get an answer, that should be so readily available in a well designed system ::) Never mind Hov, I think you inadvertently answered it....... |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/30/16 at 09:28:32 "Gee, why do I feel I am standing in a line, to get an answer, that should be so readily available in a well designed system ::) Never mind Hov, I think you inadvertently answered it....... " ................................................................................. I believe the reason that you feel that way is two-fold: 1. It's not a well designed system, but it's not too complex to achieve. 2. The UK is 7 hours ahead of you in PDT, so when you ask me something at 00:51 (here) it is just that I don't feel like explaining something to you (which is easily 'Googled') when it's 1am. Think globally and don't misinterpret a 'lack of response' for what it is or isn't... or I might remind you of the prejudice/pigeon-hole conversation. That you think I 'inadvertently answered' your request already....just saves me a lot of typing. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by raydawg on 10/30/16 at 10:00:11 775049564C6F4D5A4C535A463F0 wrote:
Funny, I thought we both spoke english ;D Anyway, I saw you were still active, even posted to this thread after I asked you the question. If you couple that with the pigeon, where you said you've read all 3000 plus of my post to generate an understanding of my POV's..... Well, I thought I had a groupie, in you..... My bad ;D BTW, I still have no idea how you answered my question, inadvertently, or otherwise, now that you chimed, Big Bennie :o |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by MnSpring on 10/30/16 at 10:11:34 (This thread has morfed into Health Care) Take a look at the UK’s system. 98.8%, Paid for by, Taxes. (Yet, the ‘fairy Dust Sprinklers’, say it is, ‘free’) Who, pays the Taxes ???? It Does, “… not including admission to hospital…” “ … There have been issues about cross-border payments …” “ …many people complained about long waiting times and underfunding. Satisfaction with the Health Service fell in 2015…” “ …About 10% of GDP is spent on health…” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service Considering, the GNP of the UK, that 10%, is HUDGE !!!!!! Now look at Canada. “…Most government funding (94%) comes from the provincial level…” “…Most family doctors receive a fee per visit….” “ …hospitals have been forced to cut costs or reduce services….” “…Half of private health expenditure comes from private insurance and the remaining half is supplied by out-of-pocket payments….” “…Healthcare spending in Canada (in 1997 dollars) has increased each year between 1975 and 2009, from $39.7 billion to $137.3 billion, or per capita spending from $1,715 to $4089. In 2013 the total reached $211 billion, averaging $5,988 per person….” “…The government attempts to ensure the quality of care…” (Key word is, ‘ATTEMPTS”) “…The result is that there is a wide variance in what is covered across the country by the public health system, particularly in more controversial areas, such as midwifery or autism treatments….” “ …More than 60 percent of prescription medications are paid for privately…” “ …though communities in rural, remote and northern regions, and some specialties, may still experience a shortage…” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada And of course, what both those Countries Spend in Defense, is a drop in the bucket. Compared to 'another', Country, who protects their BUTT, so they don't have to. They can spend that money, on the 'one payer system,. So, ya have a, ‘one payer’ system. Need a aspirin for a headache ? Free, (If you don’t pay taxes) Broke your arm falling off the ladder ? Free, (If you don’t pay taxes) In a CAR Accident, ? FREE, TO Fix you up, (If you don’t pay Taxes) BUT, you WILL get a BILL, from the Hospital ! You need a Liver or Kidney? Have Cancer? Tough Sh&#, you DIE !!!!!! Everything is IN Place Here (in the USA), NOW. ALL that needs to be done is. It Take AWAY the MONOPOLY, the Insurance companies have. (Thank you Democrats) And OPEN up, the ability to purchase a Insurance Plan from ANYWHERE in the US. NOT be, Forced, to purchase from the States MONOPOLY ! Yes, Health care in the USA, is Broke. It does NOT, cost, $12.00 for a aspirin, if delivered by a nurse. But that is what they charge, (+/-) Here is a REAL Life !!!!!! $69.95 for a 30 sec, prick the finger, a drop of blood, put on a test strip, the machine that reads it, cost $500.00, (For INR test- Blood Thinner). THAT, is what is universally Charged in MINN. The wife needed that, ’test each week’, after leaving the Hospital. Local Clinic, went up to the counter and told them, “I would Pay IN CASH each time, how much”? GEE, it was $22.50. WHAT? $22.50 vs $69.95 ???????? You Know the Clinic was making money on the $22.50. So HOW MUCH, MORE, by charging the Insurance Companies $69.95 ??? And I could go on and on. Point is, Yes, the HC in the USA is Broke. And it is Broke, because the Democrats, are in Bed with the Hospitals, and Insurance Companies. And, ‘Bamma Care’, is NOT Even CLOSE, to the answer !!!!!!!! In fact, it is MUCH WORSE, than what was before !!!! And you actually, ‘Trust’, the guberment, to, ‘fix’ it ??? With some sort of, guberment funded one pay system. Oh Gosh, No one in the guberment, will stuff their pockets, and hire their buddy to stuff his pockets. Oh No, just can’t happen. Canada, the average salary of a Doctor is, “… The gross average salary was $328,000….” AND: “…Recent reports indicate that Canada may be heading toward an excess of doctors…” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada What would the guberment, pay a Doctor here, if they took control ??? But Hey, it’s FREE. (If you don’t PAY Taxes) The ‘FIX’ is the, Trees in the Forrest. Open up enrollment for health plans to ALL States. Stop the Monopoly and Extortion, and ALLOW, Competition! COMPETITION. Which the Democrats have NOT allowed, because they get a kick back, for allowing the MONOPOLY of the system their is now. (Think it is called a ‘donation’, to a ‘foundation’) Competition: You can drive a NEW car off the Lot, for $15,000.00 OR $1,500.00,00 + You can have a cell phone for $10.00 a month or $100.00 + a month. You can buy a NEW, Shotgun for $300.00 or $3,000.00 +. You can buy a pair of shoes for, $5.00 or $50.00+ You can buy 2 Pair of Glasses and Lenses, and Exam, for $69.95, or pay, $200.00 + JUST for the exam. + + + + + + + Just like most Any Country. But you can ONLY buy H.I. in a VERY Narrow Range. And in some cases, NO Range at ALL ! Competition ! |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/30/16 at 11:21:09 Mark, there was a gorilla who was called 'king'. The only things to 'revolve around' it were planes around the tower in Manhattan. King Kong is fiction. But if there was an 800lb gorilla in the room, all it needs is for a child to enter that same room.... And yes, I know where Cincinnati is, but from the show "WKRP in Cincinnati". It's probably more to do with cultural references (Film,TV, music) rather than anything political, that Europeans link US cities/locations with their geography. We are bikers; probably the most famous 'biker' film was 'Easy Rider'... a road-movie ..... Quote Mark: "Ask the average American about a city in Europe of corresponding size and you're just as likely to get a blank stare. " Or even ask a US presidential candidate about Aleppo ;D In a nutshell, Mark, you claimed that the 'complex' nature and size of the US would prevent a 'Nation Health Service-type' system from working. I gave an example of a working system that involves many nations, languages and currencies, ie. more complex. It is a system that I use (unfortunately) very often, at the moment. I didn't appreciate your comments about the 'late' Mrs Hovis (RIP), and your (admin-requested) refusal to apologise to me, but instead was greeted with threats of physical violence. Therefore I'll not encourage you further, when it comes to Health Care. PS. Believe me, the rest of the world doesn't "HAVE to know" where St. Louis is. PPS. @Ray "even posted to this thread after I asked you the question." Ummmm....no I didn't. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/30/16 at 11:48:37 PS. Believe me, the rest of the world doesn't "HAVE to know" where St. Louis is. ......but they do. That's the point. King Kong, WKRP, Easy Rider.... along with hundreds of other US shows and movies. Again, that's my point. From you we get Monty Python and Downton Abbey. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by HovisPresley on 10/30/16 at 12:07:18 So it's not because of a 'superpower' political status....it's because of TV programmes and Hollywood! If you say to people that you are from St Louis: ...."When I meet my European colleagues and they ask where I'm from, I say St. Louis, on the Mississippi, right smack dab in the middle of the country etc.".... you appear to have told them where it is, first. |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by WebsterMark on 10/31/16 at 04:49:49 You're reaching dude, reaching. There's a criteria for cute, clever retorts: they need to be cute and clever. so again, why did Obamacare fail? |
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Title: Re: Is it possible to feel Sorry for all but One? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/16 at 08:07:07 Insurance was affordable and plans were available for people to buy. Men didn't have plans that covered ovarian cancer. Before they declared the health care system was broken and decided that HMOs would fix it, it was GREAT. Problems arose from the HMO system. Intentionally done Problem Reaction Solution Now, Bamicare is failing. Bot, it's Time to stop being so much of a democrat. It's FAILING.. Unless your standards are simply abnormal, THIS is a Failed System. But, it wasn't Unforeseeable. I SAID it would crash. Of COURSE I Only said it because I , well, I was accused of fear, racism, everything BUT being analytically gifted. I'm always wrong. I'm on RECORD about No recovery from the recession I said Trump will soon be accused And I said Bamicare will suck. But it was Meant to. It's just a step forward in centralizing Power. Problem Reaction Solution Once again,,, more bureaucracy, more inefficiency, more corruption, death panels, waiting periods.. All done on purpose, sold easily to the nanny state minded left. FAILURE IS Illinois Obamacare Co-op Becomes 16th to Collapse | Americans for ... Americans for Tax Reform › illinois-oba... They have failed to become sustainable with many collapsing amid the failure of Obamacare exchanges. Failed Obamacare State Exchanges May Cost Taxpayers Millions ... Americans for Tax Reform › failed-obam... Hawaii, the latest failed Obamacare exchange, is currently transitioning enrollees to the federal system. The state ... Thirteen of 23 Co-Ops Created Under Obamacare Have Failed Washington Free Beacon › issues › thirte... Jun 2, 2016 - ... have 60 days to find another policy offered by another company on the federal exchange. ... Ohio's failed co-op is added to the list of 12 co-ops that have already failed in Arizona, ... Why The Obamacare Exchanges Are Failing | Zero Hedge Zero Hedge › news › why-obamacare-ex... Nov 27, 2015 - I reported earlier this week that the Obamacare Marketplace is slowly failing. Three days later the ... Billions Have Been Wasted On Failed Obamacare Exchanges townhall.com › mattvespa › 2016/03/11 Mar 11, 2016 - recovery effort of those funds has been a disaster.11/02/2016 0:19:05AM EST. |
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