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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Question about petcock /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1476734034 Message started by Redryder652 on 10/17/16 at 12:53:54 |
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Title: Question about petcock Post by Redryder652 on 10/17/16 at 12:53:54 I have a question for all, I just want some opinions, I also have the raptor 440 valve, when you guys put your bike away for the night, do you set the valve to off, or do you leave it where it is? I try to turn mine off but many times I forget. I've also never had float issues, should I be worried of gas in the oil? I know it's very bad, but how likely is it to happen? And how would I know? Thank you in advance everyone, RedRyder. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Tocsik on 10/17/16 at 13:09:42 I try to remember to turn mine off all the time. Best idea is to establish a habit of reaching down and turning off as you pull into your neighborhood or head up a long driveway; some place where it becomes habit. As far as the float sticking, ya just never know if/when it may happen which is why I try to always turn off the domesticated male chicken. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by youzguyz on 10/17/16 at 13:19:46 I also TRY to remember to turn mine off. Doesn't happen very often though. I'm old.. I forget stuff. If the float fails (valve, seat, o-ring) and you did not turn if off, you will get gas going everywhere. Airbox, crankcase, etc. If the float fails and you DID turn it off, at least you will get the sort of early warning of running VERY VERY RICH and smellling gas so you can get it turned off before the other bad things happen.. or at least not as much. I don't think there is a way that you can burn enough gas to keep the level in the bowl at the right level if the float is not doing it's job. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/17/16 at 13:20:27 I always turn it to the OFF position. I don't allow the carb to drain prior to putting it in the OFF position, buy I do let it idle for about 15-30 seconds while the bike cools down. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/16 at 14:35:21 417677616A777661252621130 wrote:
I hope you meant 660. not sure if it's the same or not, but ours has the 5/16" outlet lets less likely to vapor lock. Yes, turn it off. In fact I turn it off every time I get off of it, gets to be a habit that way. Good, you don't have float issues now. That can change any minute. There's always a little gas in there. An ounce or 2 is normal from blow by and such. But if your sight glass turns black one day... time to change. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Redryder652 on 10/17/16 at 15:13:40 293A2D2C333E383A316E5F0 wrote:
I hope you meant 660. not sure if it's the same or not, but ours has the 5/16" outlet lets less likely to vapor lock. Yes, turn it off. In fact I turn it off every time I get off of it, gets to be a habit that way. Good, you don't have float issues now. That can change any minute. There's always a little gas in there. An ounce or 2 is normal from blow by and such. But if your sight glass turns black one day... time to change.[/quote] Yes I meant to say 660, now when you say if it turns black, are you saying it would happen very quickly and abruptly? |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by batman on 10/17/16 at 21:27:47 If you forget to turn it off,you should check your oil level before starting .which is a good habit ,as wellas checking lights tires brakes etc. before your first ride of the day. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Dave on 10/18/16 at 05:03:56 I don't turn my petcock off during the stops I might make while on the ride - but I do turn it off at the end of the day. There is an intersection about 1/2 mile from my house, and when I pass it I turn the petcock off.....and when I hit my driveway the bike is running out of fuel. By doing this I don't have much fuel in the carb to gum up or corrode things if I can't ride for an extended period. If your tank is clean, and your carb is working as it should - there won't be any fuel flowing through the carb....but things can happen and it is best to get in the habit of turning the petcock off when you are done riding. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by norm92de on 10/18/16 at 07:22:29 I know I'm just jumping on the bandwagon. I always turn my raptor off at a certain distance from home. The bike is starting to go lean by the time I get to my house. I never leave it on except for very short stops. The float valve, as has been mentioned by others, will be well off the seat which I think is better than leaving the float chamber full. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by ohiomoto on 10/18/16 at 07:50:05 I'm rolling like Dave on this one. My habit is to leave it on during "ride time" and turn it off for storage. And I always check to make sure it's on before I put the bike in gear. This is an old habit I have from my motocross days. I would always check the petcock before riding and several times at the starting line if I were racing. To the point of being obsessive compulsive. I'd check it ten times in 2 minutes or something silly like that. lol Running out of gas on the road doesn't worry me much (though I'd rather not in traffic), but on the track always worried me. Running out of gas or mechanical failures were always on my mind when jumping. Unfortunately, my worst fears were realized when a kid I watched grow up racing passed in an accident. He was down south practicing one winter about 10 years ago. A good rider who would qualify for a few AMA Pro Supercross and Motocross events every year. He took a break and forgot to check the petcock before he went back out on the track. His bike cut out on the face of a triple jump and he didn't make it. He was a little younger than me, I think he was just 27 when he passed. Sad day. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by ero4444 on 10/21/16 at 21:04:25 293A2D2C333E383A316E5F0 wrote:
Hey I just changed filter once and my oil TWICE (it looked dirty after the first one, after 3+ years of low mileage and no changes). I filled it to halfway in the glass when vertical and engine-off. What is the normal level on the sightglass? |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 10/21/16 at 21:43:38 4A5D401B1B1B1B2F0 wrote:
Hey I just changed filter once and my oil TWICE (it looked dirty after the first one, after 3+ years of low mileage and no changes). I filled it to halfway in the glass when vertical and engine-off. What is the normal level on the sightglass? [/quote] Oil turns black when there's a little bit of carbon in it and it don't hurt it none. What I meant by that comment is, check it daily. if one day it goes from half way to all black so you can't read the level, then you got gas in it and it's over full. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by ero4444 on 10/24/16 at 19:13:58 thanks, now I get what you meant. Also, after I wiped off the sightglass then I saw the high/low level marks on the frame of the glass. Never noticed them before. I read the glass by putting the stand on my left foot when the bike is vertical, and noting the pressure on my foot. Then I lean down to the right, adjust the pressure for "vertical" on my foot and read the glass, and it feels safe since the bike position is transmitted clearly to my foot and both feet are on the ground. I could not do it on a taller bike. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by piedmontbuckeye on 10/30/16 at 05:05:47 I am just new here, so new, that I haven't even ridden mine newly purchased used one yet (other than the test drive before purchasing it). I was wondering what the positions of the petcock are. Obviously, RES means Reserve, ON means On, but what does PIC (if I remember correctly) mean? It is the last usable position so I am assuming that this means OFF !! Am I correct? Also, years ago I worked at a Honda dealer. Once, a guy came in who had forgotten to turn off his petcock. His crankcase was plum full of gasoline! Turn it off every time you park your bike!! |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/30/16 at 06:04:26 The OEM petcock is vacuum-controlled & has 3 positions: On, Reserve, and Prime (PRI).There is no "off," since the vacuum diaphram in the petcock shuts off the fuel flow when the engine is off and not pulling vacuum. The Prime position is used to allow fuel flow into the carburetor without vacuum being present, say, after one has drained the carburetor for storage or maintenance. Many long time Savage/S40 owners report fuel flow problems with the OEM petcock and suggest a replacement with a Yamaha non-vacuum petcock. I bought my S40 new last year, so I haven't done this modification yet. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Drestakil on 10/30/16 at 06:23:28 Turning it off EVERY time is a good habit to get into. One I'd like to develop one day. Turning it back on before I start riding is another habit I should probably work on. Unfortunately, my forgettory is a little better than my memory. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/30/16 at 07:41:30 The world is saturated with bikes that use vacuum operated petcocks and have for many years. I have a little SYM Wolf Classic 150 that I put 21,000Km on with no hiccup in the vacuum operated fuel delivery. What is the weak point in Suzuki's S40 petcock? |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Mr.T on 10/30/16 at 08:07:45 The rubber bits, at least on the one I took apart. Age, heat and ethanol is hell on rubber. Time would have caught up on your SYM petcock as it does on every one out there. Some just go earlier than others.... |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Mr.T on 10/30/16 at 08:13:23 and I guess I could have rebuilt the OEM Savage petcock, but: 1) it probably would have cost more than the Raptor and 2) I am used to shutting off the fuel everytime coming from classic BMWs and Vespas. So, no big deal. ;) |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/30/16 at 08:16:14 I guess it all depends...I had a '78 Suzuki GS550E and never had a problem with the vac petcock...and a '93 Kawasaki Concours on which the petcock "wept" a little bit despite new seals. From what I've read here, the S40's petcock diaphragm tends to lose its flexibility, creating a fuel-starvation condition. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/30/16 at 08:24:22 Are replacement diaphragms available for the petcock? |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/30/16 at 08:30:19 5865697E6269750C0 wrote:
There is a Canadian fellow who lives in Taiwan where the SYM is manufactured, he has a website that sells SYM parts. I asked him if there was a manual petcock available and he said he wasn't aware of one .... that there was so little problem with the vac petcock there was no need. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 10/30/16 at 08:46:44 686966676465626360510 wrote:
yes they are |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/30/16 at 08:53:48 160512130C0107050E51600 wrote:
yes they are [/quote] Does someone have the part number? ... |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Drestakil on 10/30/16 at 09:14:21 0E0F00010203040506370 wrote:
yes they are [/quote] Does someone have the part number? ...[/quote] Your best bet would be to call a Suzuki dealer. Here's the link for testing the petcock. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 If you ever have problems with the way the bike runs. Do this test first. If prefer the stock petcock, don't do anything except go through the link I posted so you'll know how to test it. It could give you many years of trouble free service. I changed mine because of the stories on here about them failing but it worked fine. Plus, all of my other bikes use a manual petcock. They have a simpler design and are less likely to fail. I look at the Raptor 660 as cheap insurance. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/30/16 at 09:51:00 I seem to recall a post somewhere here about how to modify the stock, vacuum petcock to an on/off/reserve mode, but danged if I can find it again. Verslagen? Old Feller? Anybody? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 10/30/16 at 10:09:45 707E686A62646F070 wrote:
have some fn patience. I gotta go get the package outta the box. the thread got deleted somehow or you'd have the info. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 10/30/16 at 10:30:18 K&L 18-4344 petcock repair kit gs1150 there'll be a couple extra parts but it fits. about $20 when I got it a few years back. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/30/16 at 11:51:40 For what it's worth: Was looking for the manual petcock mod in Tech Forum...but turns out, it's accessed from the "fuel & air" on the right side of the homepage, posted by bobo383 In 2005. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by batman on 10/30/16 at 19:00:07 The problem the the stock petcock is you never know when it's going to fail (but it will) mine did at 70mph on the mass. turnpike as I was passing an18 wheeler ,bike died with 4 cagers behind me also ready to pass . Made it to the right shoulder but wasn't a good thing .Finally got it started in pri. went home and ordered a gen-u-wine Raptor 660. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/31/16 at 04:28:24 How many years/miles were on your bike when it failed? |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Dave on 10/31/16 at 05:51:46 I replaced one for a local rider about 2 months ago. Her bike stopped on her while she was out riding, and by using the PRI she was able to make it back home. Her bike is a 2009 model - but it evidently sat on a dealer floor for a very long time, as she bought it new in the summer of 2015. It has less than 1,000 miles on it when the petcock went bad. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by stewmills on 10/31/16 at 07:33:25 My 2008 started failing in 2015 at about 6000 miles. I replaced the diaphragm and things seem pretty good since then. I (maybe the only on on this forum) prefer the stock petcock because I like that it has less of a chance for flooding. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Papa Bear on 10/31/16 at 09:16:52 It sounds like the diaphragm rubber is a "maintenance" item like tires, batteries etc. If I don't change my battery I will come to a morning when the bike won't start. If I don't change my tires I will come to a point where I have a flat. Sounds like there is nothing inherently wrong with the stock petcock - it just needs servicing... preferably before it fails rather than after. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Redryder652 on 10/31/16 at 09:25:10 Maybe using a gas additive would prolong the life of it, like marvel mystery oil. It may keep the rubber from getting "dry" or stiff and lubricate everything else in the fuel system. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Dave on 10/31/16 at 10:32:37 7D4A4B5D564B4A5D191A1D2F0 wrote:
Most likely the ethanol is causing the diaphragm to fail - some rubber parts are sensitive to ethanol.....this appears to be one of them. Bikes that are ridden regularly don't seem to have the problem as much as bikes that sit for extended periods, and folks who live in area where the fuel does not contain ethanol don't seem to have the issue. The big pain in the but....is that the symptoms often lead folks to look in other areas for ignition or carb problems, and it sometimes "needlessly" strands folks. Everyone that is using the stock petcock should have a rubber vaccuum cap and a golf tee in the tool kit. If the bikes acts up and starts running weird, pull the vacuum line off the carb and put the rubber cap on, shove the golf tee in the vacuum hose, and switch the petcock to PRI....and see if the weird symptoms go away. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/31/16 at 11:51:00 Good suggestion, Dave. A topic-specific application of the K.I.S.S. Principle. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by batman on 10/31/16 at 13:38:09 The bike won't leave you stranded,and what Dave said about the golf tee and plug is great advice .what bugs me is that some failures tend to occur at speed due to the lower vacuum on the petcock caused by more open throttle settings (read DANGEROUS!) an event on the Mass.turnpike where my bike died at 70 mph while passing an 18 wheeler,with several cars behind me, was 3yrs and 9,000 miles ago ,but with the Raptor I'm assured that it will never happen again! |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Rodger on 10/31/16 at 14:09:46 That scenario is just flat scarey, Batman. Glad you're still around to write about it! |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by HAPPYDAN on 10/31/16 at 14:23:50 080906070405020300310 wrote:
Bought new in 2012, started occasional sputtering +800 miles, completely conked out just over 1,000 miles. Turned to PRI to get home. Already had the Yama petcock, as forum members advised (warned) to expect it. About $30, easy fix. I now believe the (GOVT mandated) ethanol in the gas is the culprit, as S40 owners in other countries don't seem to have the problem. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by HAPPYDAN on 10/31/16 at 14:37:47 704D56414070534D4741240 wrote:
Bought new in 2012, started occasional sputtering +800 miles, completely conked out just over 1,000 miles. Turned to PRI to get home. Already had the Yama petcock, as forum members advised (warned) to expect it. About $30, easy fix. I now believe the (GOVT mandated) ethanol in the gas is the culprit, as S40 owners in other countries don't seem to have the problem. Y'know, Batman, you may be on to something. The sputtering began when under hard acceleration, which causes the manifold vacuum to drop significantly and suddenly. Then roll off the throttle, and the vacuum goes way up again, the engine gets gas again and away she goes. Remember the vacuum-actuated windshield wipers on the Vietnam-era Jeeps? Same thing. Overall, it's just a dumb idea to save lazy people an extra step in the start-up process. After the new petcock, it never happened again. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Drestakil on 10/31/16 at 15:21:40 73727D7C7F7E79787B4A0 wrote:
The problem with that approach is there is no way to tell when it's about to fail. A petcock isn't something that should need regular maintenance. Other bikes with vacuum operated petcocks don't need regular service and they don't have the failure rate of the Savage (as far as I know). I'm convinced it's a design flaw that the company could fix with a better diaphragm. Just like they could easily fix the cam chain tensioner. Until they do make the petcock more reliable, which I really don't think is likely, I'll use the Raptor petcock for safety reasons. If you get ready to ride your bike and your tire went flat overnight it's pretty obvious. If the petcock decides to go bad overnight and drain the gas from the tank through the vacuum hose, you may not notice. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by greenmonster on 11/07/16 at 13:26:43 Anyone have a link to a genuine source of Raptor 660 petcocks? My stealership wants to charge me a fee for bringing in a atv part when they don't sell atvs. I remember a few years back folks were getting knock off sent to them. I'd like to avoid that. |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by Dave on 11/07/16 at 13:34:35 You can get them from Bike Bandit, Ron Ayers, Motorcycle Superstore, etc. You want the official part with number 5LP-24500-01-00, and if you don't see the white box from Yamaha, move along and get a real one. You can find the right ones on eBay among all the Chines copies. http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-PETCOCK-FUEL-thingy-VALVE-ASSEMBLY-YFM660-YFM-660-RAPTOR-GRIZZLY-/361755942903?hash=item543a559ff7:g:gyMAAOxyXDhShQ4J&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-YAMAHA-RAPTOR-660-FUEL-PETCOCK-FITS-SUZUKI-LTZ250-LTZ400-/200655694620?hash=item2eb802eb1c:m:mAwhJc2Sp5cgls4rwZu7IRg&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Tank-Petcock-Turn-Valve-thingy-OEM-Yamaha-Raptor-YFM660R-YFM-660R-660-R-/191767353153?hash=item2ca6399741:g:FSsAAOxyyF5RRHiU&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-YAMAHA-RAPTOR-660-YFM-660R-OEM-FUEL-VALVE-SHUTOFF-PETCOCK-5LP-24500-01-00-/272437800394?fits=Model%3ARaptor+660R&hash=item3f6e8eedca:g:DLkAAOSwmfhX4r09&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by verslagen1 on 11/07/16 at 13:35:16 Any online distributers selling OEM parts would be guilty of fraud if they sent you aftermarket part instead of the part you ordered. most if not all of the comments were directed at fleabay purchases. so order the original yammi part Quote:
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Title: Re: Question about petcock Post by batman on 11/07/16 at 21:13:37 Sorry ,I wanted to get back to this earlier,my petcock died at 15 yrs and about 16000 miles ,which is a lot longer than most.the problem is the stock petcock is like a time bomb ,you never know when it will fail but you know it will! I think $30 bucks is cheap (raptor) for the piece of mind it provides . while you can,for a little less by a rebuild kit for the stock one,you're still faced with failure at some later date. |
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