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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Dies under load /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1476384990 Message started by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 11:56:30 |
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Title: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 11:56:30 Having an occasional yet repeating problem. The engine dies when starting out from a stop. I just start moving from a dead stop, 3-5 seconds later, blub, blub, blub, dead. Starts up after a little cranking, idles perfect, revs in neutral perfect, holds a higher rpm in neutral perfect, put her in gear start going, dies. However, after going through this start, go, die, cycle several times, the engine then runs perfect. Did a hundred miles on her a couple days ago absolutely no problem. Today... start, go, die about 7 times then she ran perfect. Usually happens in the morning right after she warms up and I start out for the day. But, she has done this to me after riding for an hour. Always after I stop and then go, blub, blub, blub, dead. And it doesn't happen every day. Just occasionally. I've torn the carb apart a couple times in the last month, thinking it must be a carb problem. Everything appears to check out. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Ruttly on 10/13/16 at 12:14:48 Possible bad petcock or vaccuum hose going to it Put petcock to prime and see if problem goes away |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 12:22:16 I replaced the stock petcock with a Raptor a couple months ago. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by verslagen1 on 10/13/16 at 12:26:13 784B5A4B5C5C5F5C4B390 wrote:
did you plug the vac line? Did you rejet? what jets? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/16 at 12:32:04 When did it start having the problem? Did you replace the petcock, hoping to solve this problem? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 12:55:22 I've only had this bike since June. It's was stock 2011 with 9,500 miles when I got it. I replaced the stock petcock with a Raptor after the original diaphragm went a couple months ago. At the same time, I also capped the vacuum nipple on the carb and re-jetted. Jets: 150 main, 50 pilot, half spacer on needle. Installed new float valve, 1 3/4 turn out on mix screw. K&N drop in filter and Dyna. Started having this problem about 3 weeks ago. Just weird. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn't. At that point I was also having problems with poor performance in low to mid range. I took the carb out a couple weeks ago cleaned everything again and swapped the 52.5 pilot with a 50. Improved the low-mid range and didn't initially have the die under load problem. Now it's doing it again, just the die under load problem when I go from a stop. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 13:31:19 The part that's really tough to figure out is why is it doing this only sometimes? Other times it runs great all day. Most of the time when it does it, it's when I first start out in the morning, but I warm it up first. It's also done it to me after an hour of riding. And after a few attempts and sitting and holding a high rpm (3,000+), it then runs great. Fuel's clean, plugs good, carbs cleaned, but sometimes going from a stop it just dies whether I pull in the clutch or not. Then starts right up after a little cranking. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 13:43:03 Question... How much fuel should be coming out of OEM Raptor fuel petcock? I've unhooked the fuel line from the carb and opened the petcock to see. Not as much fuel flow as I would expect. But why would it idle fine, sit in neutral and rev fine, hold high rpm in neutral fine, put it in gear and go for 3-5 seconds and die from what sounds like fuel starvation??? Yea, I'm just thinking out loud now :-[ |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/13/16 at 13:44:08 Check for an air leak between the carb and the head. A loose clamp may cause a vacuum leak under load that isn't there with a light load. I'd also check the float height. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by gizzo on 10/13/16 at 13:49:02 Did you pull out the bush the float needle fits in and clean the little screen? May as wellchchange the o ring while you're in there. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/13/16 at 14:03:50 Make sure the spark plug is clean and gapped properly. Make sure it is tight when reinstalling it. Check your compression release cable for proper adjustment. Sounds like low compression or a weak spark. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 14:24:07 Gary - I'll check the carb to head link tomorrow. I know the clamp is tight, but an air leak there would make some sense except why it would only do it sometimes?? What's the best way for leak testing there? Gizzo - I actually removed the screen from the bottom of the float needle housing when I rebuilt the carb a couple months ago. Didn't replace it. Seems like I'd be having problems idling or revving in neutral if that were the problem. Only happens when I go from a stop. Dies in a few seconds as soon as a load is on. And doesn't do it all the time, only sometimes. Always idles great, even runs and sounds great at higher rpm in neutral or with the clutch pulled in. let the clutch out and she's dead in a few seconds. doesn't matter whether I'm on the flat, on an incline or decline. Which I find really weird. She'll do it if I start from a stop going downhill. Very little load. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 14:39:19 Savageman - I tried changing the plug. No difference. And this is an intermittent problem. Doesn't happen every time. And when she's decided to run, she runs great. The compression release... She idles fine, revs fine, let the clutch out and blub, blub, blub, dead. Doesn't matter if I pull in the clutch, give'r more throttle, nothing keeps her from dying. Then she starts up after a little cranking. Gotta crank a little bit more than normal, but starts right up, idles fine, revs fine. After a few cycles of start-go-dead and she decides to run great again. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/16 at 14:40:33 When it dies, what kinda dramas are involved in getting it to start back up? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by norm92de on 10/13/16 at 14:42:37 One thing that comes to mind is an electrical issue. If it were just fuel it would be all the time wouldn't it? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/13/16 at 14:47:41 Still sounds like a weak spark issue. Idle is usually OK but any load it will die. How about valve lash? Is that OK? Also make sure that the belt didn't scrape thru the wires coming from the igniter coil. You have to look with a flashlight down behind the engine sprocket. Follow the harness out and make sure it's not cut into. Check connections at the TDI unit. And what is the battery voltage at? :-/ And check the kick stand safety switch with your DVM as well as the clutch safety switch and wiring connections. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 15:07:58 Justin - a few cranks and it starts back up. just a few more than usual and sounds like she's really lean for a few seconds then idles and revs fine. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/16 at 15:25:27 I just don't know what to say. Someone laid out some ideas,how to check the plug, darn if I know.. Certainly any electrical connections that you have touched, inspect. I'm thinking it's ignition related, the description of it sounds like what you would get if you put a heel on the sidestand. Why, ? Cuz I'm stumped and that's all I have.. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/13/16 at 15:46:17 Savageman - if it were a valve problem, wouldn't it be happening all the time? After several stop-go-die episodes this morning, she decided to run like a champ. Battery is good and tests good under load. The clutch safety switch... clutch in or out in neutral and she runs fine. don't know why it would only effect it when a load is applied? Kick stand switch... she runs fine with the stand up in neutral or in gear with the clutch in. Just dies when the clutch is let out and a load applied. And it doesn't do it every time. I agree that perhaps the safety switches could be to blame. 'Cause it only happens upon the load from stop to go. And it happens quick. I'll check connection. What's a TDI unit? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by norm92de on 10/13/16 at 16:13:19 The only things that come to mind are a small air leak in the inlet tract or electrical. I once had an air leak in the induction and it made the bike hesitate until the air started flowing. Then it came on like gang busters. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/16 at 16:58:26 Was your problem intermittent? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by batman on 10/13/16 at 18:22:08 SO...why remove the screen under your float valve? I'm assuming that it and the o ring take up some space under the valve seat ,if so ,then when you reassemble and set the float level it might be somewhat off.I'd reinstall and try again. did you readjust the air screw after changing the idle jet?think about changing the gas line between the petcock and the carb, oil and gas does eat rubber with age and that goes to the float valve (that no longer has a screen). |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/13/16 at 18:31:48 TDI is the spark control unit under the left side cover. It's not a CDI cause doesn't use caps to generate a voltage to the ignition coil. Anyways could also be a shorted ignition coil. All this stuff I mention is just some advanced trouble shooting methods I would use to diagnose the problem. Pull the spark plug connect it to the coil and ground it then crank engine. Do you see a bright white/blue spark or a lame ass poor excuse of a spark? :-? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/13/16 at 18:41:24 093A2B3A2D2D2E2D3A480 wrote:
WD40. When you spray the inlet tube, if the idle increases, you have a leak. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/14/16 at 10:04:07 First off, I would like to thank every one of you who took the time to help me with this. :) (place beer mug icon here) I'll be working on my bike today. Since it only does the start-go-die thing occasionally and mostly in the mornings after a brief warm up and I've already changed the plug and cleaned the carb, the first thing I'll do today is check for air leaks. Then check safety switches, coil & TDI connections. I'll let you know how it goes. Mahalo! |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/16 at 10:19:15 If it did it Every Time, it's still weird,, but an intermittent weird? I'm certainly pulling for you.. I wanna know what the heck is going on, too. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/15/16 at 14:44:32 OK Savage Gurus... I went through the electrical... Nice blue spark on a new plug, cleaned safety switch connections and tested. Went on a test ride up the hill, ran great until I got about a block up the road in 3rd gear blub, blub, blub, dead. Didn't matter pulling in the clutch and giving more throttle. Nothing keeps it from dying except going downhill in 3rd gear. I can hear it wanting to die but it doesn't. Seems if it were electrical it would still die going downhill in 3rd gear :-/ ? Also, when it does die the first time there will be this putrid smell. Definitely did not smell like fuel. Strong acrid smell. What the heck was that? :-? I did notice that when it wants to run awesome it idles close to 1,500 rpm. It does give me notice when it wants to run like crap by dropping idle closer to 1,100 - 1,200. I originally set the idle at 1,200 but lately when I first start it up it idles around 900 - 1,000. When it's warmed up and wants to run good it idles closer to 1,400. I installed a tach a while back but I can hear when it wants to run proper and when it doesn't. Doesn't miss or backfire, just sounds like it doesn't want to go to work for the day. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/15/16 at 15:01:28 Sounds exactly like an electrical short. Pull the seat and gas tank off. Check all the wiring and connectors for burnt connections. When it shorts out no sparky. No sparky no run. :o Also make sure your battery terminals and or wires aren't shorting to the battery box. Not much room in there. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by engineer on 10/16/16 at 12:52:43 As everyone knows a cold engine doesn't produce as much power as one that is warm and if something is dragging the bike down then it might be enough to cause stalling. One very simple thing you might want to check is to see if there is any extra resistance to rolling. Jack it up and see if the wheels turn freely. Maybe a brake is dragging, or a wheel bearing is shot. Is there any extra friction in the transmission/clutch. I don't think it is likely but since nothing else seems to be the cause it's probably worth checking. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/17/16 at 05:24:59 7D4E5F4E59595A594E3C0 wrote:
I still think it's the carb, most likely the float height. That smell is the mixture going lean - which causes the engine to run very hot. If it was electrical and there was a smell...chances are you'd only get the opportunity to smell it once before the wires fried. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/17/16 at 11:34:05 Well here's the latest... The problem has gotten worse. It used to come back to life after several dying episodes. Not now, it will run a little ways then die, over and over. I went back in yesterday and changed the connection to the coil and the tach. When I installed the tach a couple months ago I used a cheap 2-in-1 connector that I had in the tool box. Thinking that may be the problem, Not. :P When checking the spark, which I've done a half dozen times in the last few weeks, it would throw a yellow spark then occasionally blue. Thinking I didn't have the plug properly grounded the whole time, I went with the blue. Checked it again this morning and nothing but weak yellow spark. And the plug, which was brand new and only had 10 minutes of use, was coated with a dry black powder. The battery is new and tests good under load, so that's not it. Went through connections, all look good. Never had to deal with these symptoms before, so not sure if this is the common death throws of a coil or TCI or?? :P |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by ohiomoto on 10/17/16 at 11:53:49 It has been pointed out earlier, but it sure sounds like it starving for fuel. I'd stay focused on that. I would start by making sure the float is sound. If the level is too low, you'll get enough fuel to idle but not run at higher rpms. Think about how the bike acts when it runs out of gas. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by stewmills on 10/17/16 at 12:04:30 See this for explanations: |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by stewmills on 10/17/16 at 12:04:48 Details for the above photo: |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/17/16 at 12:11:15 I'd find a used ignition coil and put it on. It can still be the ignitor coil or the TDI as well. You smell something burning. Sounds electrical to me. 8-) If it was starving for fuel it will sputter backfire and pop. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/16 at 12:18:00 Spark plug analysis can only be done after the engine is fully warmed up. I'd remove the tach to see if it's causing the problem. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/17/16 at 13:25:08 62716667787573717A25140 wrote:
Also, spark plug analysis is best when performed on a new plug. The crappy fuel we are forced to burn today turns a sparkplug black on any non-FI engine in just a few miles. You are going down a good path with the CDI and spark plug. Run that one down before looking at fuel delivery. Work one problem/solution at a time. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/16 at 16:00:01 Also, when it does die the first time there will be this putrid smell. Get tubing small enough to go in a nostril. Find the source of the smell. It's not going lean because of the carburetor and creating a stink. As quickly as you describe it happening, its something shorting out,and burning something electrical. Acrid describes hot electrical stuff. A Very attentive Visual inspection could be the answer. The most common problem is a bad connected, or an open.. I don't remember the last time I called a problem a Likely Short.. The wires coming out near the belt should be studied, not glanced at, arefully studied. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/18/16 at 09:51:06 Thanks Gang! :) Really appreciate all the help. I'm going to start by diving back into the electrical. That smell I explained comes from the upper left portion of the head. Which could be coming from under the left portion under the tank which is where the coil is. Also where I tied in the tach. It's a ryca tach that ties into the coil and the horn. Tach and horn have always worked fine and I just installed a new connector to the coil thinking that connection may be shorting the coil event though the tach works fine :-/. The problem started shortly after I dove into the carb, installed the tach and a dyna exhaust. Weird thing is, it only does the start-run-die thing occasionally. Carb: I'm going to replace the screen at the bottom of the float valve housing. I left it off when reassembling the carb. Also replacing the needle. It looked a little bent to me when I had the carb apart. I made it straight(er) then reassembled. But it's probably still not perfect. Electrical: unhook the tach from the coil and see if that works. If not, install another coil. Also, go back through all the connections, again. :P I'll let you all know how it goes. Mahalo! |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/18/16 at 10:44:32 You don't have to get power from the tach from the horn. For example I used the instrument light circuit. There's more info in your recent post then in others. Before we only knew about changing the spark plug and cleaning the carb. Now we learn that there might be a structural issue inside the carb and a wiring circuit that may or may not be correct. A bent or misaligned needle will cause the bike to run lean - or strange. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/16 at 11:18:12 mes from the upper left portion of the head. Which could be coming from under the left portion under the tank which is where the coil is. Also where I tied in the tach. I had overlooked the tach addition. Definitely inspect and repair if you see anything that looks wrong, and just disconnect it and put it back stock electrically if you don't see anything. The percentage of problems that are outside the known , everyday Suzuki induced little hassles that crop up after someone decides to work on it is pretty high. I'm WELL Familiar with the fine art of carefully crafting bear traps and then feeding them a leg.. and the first place I look when I see a problem develop is the last place I was working. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by batman on 10/20/16 at 15:25:17 Well I guess it's time to fix this problem! You said you removed the screen under the float valve seat ,and I asked you to replace it ! If you don't have it still you can get one from Ron Ayers (about $8.00). when you replaced the seat it went deeper into the body and the valve doesn't fully seat. This allows the bowl level to go high, except when going down hill when the float level causes the most pressure on the valve and nearly closes it .Your running rich that is why your plug is carbon fouled,and why when you open the throttle you flood and stall,your using enough fuel at speed to lower the level but when you come to stop it rises again ,and your back to stalling again.The smell could be unburned fuel coming back through the carb or out the engine breather hose. I would check your oil for gas smell again and be careful all that gas could be washing the oil off your cylinder walls. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/20/16 at 16:37:01 I'll have a chance to work on the bike this weekend. Let ya'll know what I find. Thanks for all the suggestions. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/16 at 02:15:58 That acrid smell sounds electrical. I've never seen gasoline cause a stench. The description of it dying sounds like someone just turned the ignition off. Less than consistent spark colors. I'd stick a plug in the wire and test another plug. The cutesy little wire tap connections that you squeeze and slide the blade into are my least favorite electrical connector. I'd be finding that stink. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/21/16 at 05:44:42 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
Running a proper 12:1 to 15:1 (WOT to cruise) mixture results in an exhaust temperature (at the first 3 to 4 inches of down pipe) in the range of 1150 to 1300 degrees F. When the mixture starts to go just a little lean, say 17:1 to 20:1 you'll see temperatures in the range of 1500 to 1700F. In this range the coating on the pipe begins to burn and smell. Beyond 20:1 the engine will begin to shut down due to fuel starvation, but if the mixture is hovering around 21:1 head pipe temperatures will be around 2000F, and you will smell things burning. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by ohiomoto on 10/21/16 at 07:51:43 2C262228232A2E27797F7B4B0 wrote:
Running a proper 12:1 to 15:1 (WOT to cruise) mixture results in an exhaust temperature (at the first 3 to 4 inches of down pipe) in the range of 1150 to 1300 degrees F. When the mixture starts to go just a little lean, say 17:1 to 20:1 you'll see temperatures in the range of 1500 to 1700F. In this range the coating on the pipe begins to burn and smell. Beyond 20:1 the engine will begin to shut down due to fuel starvation, but if the mixture is hovering around 21:1 head pipe temperatures will be around 2000F, and you will smell things burning.[/quote] I had an old Jetta back in the 80s with a clogged catalytic converter. The car smelled like a big electrical fire! The reality is that none of us know what the real issue is and we won't know until the OP figures it out. Sure, someone will be "right" but we're all just making educated guesses at this point. I normally go to the last place I (or the OP) was mucking around (the carb) and rule that out first. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Serowbot on 10/21/16 at 08:11:51 I would ignore smells at this point...You have been idling and revving a lot, trying to figure out what's wrong,... smells are bound to show up. Have you tried bypassing both the sidestand and clutch cut-outs?... Just jumper the 2 wires at the lever and under the seat. I think it's the clutch cut-out... Even if it isn't,.. knowing gets you closer... 8-) |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/22/16 at 20:16:13 Update... checked the coil, 4.8 ohms on the primary side and 22,000 on the secondary. So that's not it. Tore the carb apart, replace the needle cause the other one was slightly bent. Put a new filter on the float valve housing, cause I left it off the last time I ventured into the carb. replaced a few other things that came with a complete rebuild kit. put it all back together, started her up, she ran fine for 12 seconds, then died. :o First thing I did was to check the spark. Pulled the plug wire, put another plug in and plenty of spark. So that's not it. OK, now I'm thinking all this engine needs is spark, fuel and air, right? got spark, got fuel, I'll check the new K&N air filter. No idea how it could be clogged, but what the heck, I'll check it. Then I smelled fuel. Filter was clean but fuel was filling up the filter housing. WTF?? >:( Already have a Raptor petcock so that's not it. Pulled the plug and it's wet. The only thing I haven't already changed out in the carb is the float and float pin. Every time I've pulled the carb apart I shake the float and listen for any fuel inside the floats. Always dry. They look OK and the pin appears fine. I don't think this is part of the original problem, But at this point I'm open to every freaking weird ass thing that could drive me crazy chasing this freaking phantom. I need an old priest and a young priest. Thinking I should buy a motorcycle so I have a motorcycle to ride while I'm working on a motorcycle. Or, take my 12 gauge and unload it on this cursed bike. Think I could collect insurance on that? Claim the bike committed suicide? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/22/16 at 20:51:58 Troubleshooting requires methodical testing and experience to rely on. If you don't have experience with carburetors or electrical or engines in general then, chances are you are overlooking something important. You should try and find a member in your area with experience and pay him to fix it. It's almost impossible to give you the exact answer on here. To many variables. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/22/16 at 21:28:01 A timing light with induction pickup on the plug wire will tell you if you suddenly stop putting spark To the plug. And that is what im thinking is happening. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by batman on 10/22/16 at 22:16:06 You set the float height? It's important !Too high floods the carb. gas flows into the air filter and the plug gets wet .too much gas ,not enough air won't support combustion.Foat height is1.06 to 1.14 inches (you hold the carb upside down and measure from the carb body to the bottom of the float,adjust by bending the tab that the valve hangs from.Don't blame the bike for your hearing problem. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/23/16 at 11:07:24 Thanks for the float height info Batman. This is the second time the carb flooded like this since I changed the petcock to a Raptor a couple months ago. So that takes the petcock out of this equation. Other carb parts have either been swapped out or cleaned and I might have buggered the floats up in one of the previous tear downs. It'll be another week before I'll have time to rip into it again. I'm not giving up, yet. In yesterdays tear down I did notice the negative wire to the coil (black & white), which runs directly to the battery negative post cable, was merely crimped in with the battery cable and poorly done. Lots of loose strands. So I soldered it all together into a new fitting. Hoping that was the cause of the occasional mystery start-run-die problem. Which started this whole thread. When it died yesterday the first thing I thought of was a safety switch might be messing with me. So I pulled the plug wire, inserted another plug and had plenty of spark. Then put the plug wire back on the inserted plug and no start. That's when I noticed the flooding issue. Pulled the plug, which is brand new, and it was dripping wet. Perhaps this whole mystery was caused by off kilter floats :-? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/23/16 at 17:52:50 404A4E444F46424B151317270 wrote:
This was mentioned 10 days ago. A misaligned float can cause the bike to flood or run lean. It's an extremely simple check and easy to remedy. The soaked filter is probably a result of the needle and float. How does the needle valve seat look? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by gizzo on 10/23/16 at 19:04:10 Have you made sure the o ring in the needle seat is good? If it's not, fuel can go that way and bypass the float needle. I've seen that one a couple times. Doesn't cost anything to check. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/24/16 at 07:06:23 From page 195 of the Clymer manual: "Inspect the end of the float valve needle (Figure 38) for wear or damage. Also check the inside of the needle valve body. If either part is worn or damaged, replace as a set. A damaged needle valve or a particle of dirt or grit in the needle valve assembly will cause the carburetor to flood and overflow fuel. Regarding the Float height: Page 196 of the Clymer manual, Float Adjustment paragraph 5: Adjust by carefully bending the tang (Figure 53) on the float arm. If the float level is too high, the result will be a rich fuel/air mixture. If the float level is too low the mixture will be too lean. According to Table 1, Carburetor Specification, on page 208, the float height should be between 26.95 to 28.95 mm (1.06 to 1.114 in.) resulting in fuel height in the bowl of 6.5 to 7.5 mm (0.256 to 0.296 in). |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by ohiomoto on 10/24/16 at 08:21:31 685B4A5B4C4C4F4C5B290 wrote:
Yes. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/24/16 at 09:27:46 Thanks for all the feedback! I already replaced the float valve needle and body with new and blasted the carb body with brake clean. The only thing I haven't done to that part of the carb is check & align the floats. I purchased new floats and float pin from Partzilla. Rather start off with new, get it all aligned and not have to rip into the carb again for a while. ;) Could be a couple weeks by the time I receive the parts and have time to tear the carb apart again. I'll Let ya'll know how it goes. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 10/24/16 at 13:23:57 Make sure you aren't trying to run Ethanol. It will overflow and run like crap. I don't know what fuel is like in Ha.? :-? |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 10/31/16 at 17:37:39 BIKE BE RUNNING!! Posting a pic from after the test ride after the final carb intrusion. It had been raining off & on so she's a bit muddy. Replaced the float and float pin. Still can't believe that was the entire problem. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Steve H on 10/31/16 at 17:59:39 Glad you got it fixed. Floats can be wierd. By the time you get it out of the carb, the gas has had time to either leak back out or evaporate out of the float. Best way to check if the float has a leak is to submerge it and watch for bubbles. See, you can do it. There's all the help out here you need to get you where you need to be. But, though it may sound dumb at the time, you need to do everything you're asked to do so that nothing is overlooked. Congrats...now, go riding. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/31/16 at 18:19:56 Good to hear |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by norm92de on 11/01/16 at 15:15:54 That's great! Sometimes a seemingly simple problem can be hard to diagnose. I'm sure you learned a lot from the experience. Carbs seem to be simple but as we all know can be a bit tricky. :) |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by batman on 11/03/16 at 16:31:29 Did we forget to mention it might be the float level? :) :) :) :) |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 11/03/16 at 19:26:05 Yep. I do believe there was a Suzuki Savage Super Hero that did mention the float level a time or two. Thanks Batman |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/03/16 at 19:58:00 I'll just step up and say Im shocked.. The description of what it was doing just didn't make me think that was it. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Savageman on 11/03/16 at 22:18:33 I still think it was something electrical and fuel related. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/04/16 at 05:28:18 6F7076716C6B5A6A5A62707C37050 wrote:
It was the description of a smell, repeated over time, that was the tip-off. Electrical issues smell once, and then things shut down permanently (when the magic smoke escapes). |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by batman on 11/04/16 at 07:13:06 the tipoff for me was wet filter, removing the screen under the float valve,carbon fouled plug ,then wet plug,bike stalling as soon as the throttle came off idle,all can be caused by to high a level in the float bowl.he also had gas in his oil,the bike idled (must have had spark& compression) but stalled when throttle was opened ,what changed?(fuel!) the throttle opens allowing a slug of gas in ,but not enough air to support combustion ,(the slide is just starting to open),bike stalls ,wet plug ,funny smell(unburnt fuel,gas fumes coming from the oil into the air box,or out the muffler?) take your pick.the only other think changed was the jets 52.5/152.5 in the ballpark for sea level.logic ,to me said the only factor that could cause all these things was a flooded float bowl. the final clue,"going down hill the bike seemed like it was running bad but didn't stall " the float is pivoted to the rear of the bowl ,the floats toward the motor ,heading the bike down hill shifted the fuel level forward under the floats causing the float valve to be at it's most closed position,stopping or slowing flow into the bowl dropping the level just enough so that the bike didn't stall. |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by Arcreefer on 11/04/16 at 09:54:52 I'm really not sure what the cause or cause(s) were for the mystery start-run-die problem. Since it would sometimes do it and then days would go by where the bike ran perfectly. I ended up changing out the connector to the coil (I originally used a cheap connector when I installed the tach), I soldering the coil wire in with the battery cable (it was originally crimped in), checked electrical connections and safety switches, battery is new and tests excellent under load. I had changed the jets and needle spacer a couple months ago and did notice the needle appeared to be slightly bent. And the plug was coming out more black so figured it was running rich. Changed out the needle, the needle jet (thinking it may have been scared by a bent needle), and moved back down to a 50 pilot jet. Put it all back together and then it started flooding into the air box. When I had the carb apart I cleaned everything again including the float valve. While taking the float out I dropped it, didn't appear like it was damaged, but it let me know it was. So, I ordered a new float and pin, took the carb apart again installed the new float and pin and it the bike ran perfect. However, I haven't had a chance to ride the snot out of the bike yet. This weekend I will. :) Could the whole problem have been attributed to float level? Possibly, since I never checked the float until after swapping it out. Which was the last thing I did. I'm just glad it's running! Thanks to everyone that contributed!! |
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Title: Re: Dies under load Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/16 at 18:48:16 If you fixed it and fixed it and it kept doing it, it was the Last Fixed it that Fixed it.. And thanks to the folks who explained Why they saw it. |
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