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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Hard starts and stalling /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1475629194 Message started by Johnnyblade on 10/04/16 at 17:59:54 |
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Title: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/04/16 at 17:59:54 Hi guys. Need some pointers. I have a 2007 s40. A few weeks ago I stalled out decelerating to a stop during a ride and couldn't get the bike started again with out keeping the throttle up. Every time I let go of the throttle the bike would stall. I got home and adusted the mixture screw on the carb (external screw) and it ran fine for a few trips. Now it started again. I had replaced the petcock with a raptor last summer so figure possibly float problem. I thought I could fix it by taking off the bowl only. But... realized thats not how it works. Hence I need a new bowl gasket. Also. I noticed today after struggling to get it going that the puke tube had at least 4 table spoons of gas in it. Think that's from me flodoing it? I drained it since. John |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/04/16 at 18:28:48 If what came out of the puke tube was purely gas and not a gas/oil mix ,I'd say your the float valve isn't seating or your float height is to high. It maybe time to pull the carb and do a good cleaning,be aware that there is a screen under the float valve seat that may also be plugged,and the fuel line from the Raptor could need replaceing due to age. I'd also check the plug you used on the carb to plug the vacuum line into the carb for a leak as this would cause a lean condition at idle.(or anytime you close the throttle ie. slowing down )or a plugged /dirty TEV valve. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/16 at 18:49:34 Having trouble getting the bowl off? bat box in the way? put a strap around the box and pull it back till it clears the bowl. what puke tube are we talking about? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/05/16 at 05:59:40 Hi guys. The fuel line seems fine. Replaced last year also. I checked my plug for the vacume as well and that seems secure. I used starting fluid around the hoses and no increase in idle so I think I ruled out vacume leak. The gas was in the tube that comes down underneath the bike. I heard guys call this the puke tube...not sure what it is really called. Got the bowl off no problem but realized you really can't access anything that way. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 06:28:04 Is this starting to sound like the TEV? He reported no mods, and, as long as the idle speed is kept up, it's not gonna die during deceleration. Will it idle? Did you have to adjust anything to get it to idle? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/05/16 at 09:15:35 What's the TEV? If I adjust the idle screw it helps but eventually it still stalls. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by stewmills on 10/05/16 at 10:01:56 TEV is that circle/triangle thingy with the three black allen screws. It can get gunk in it. Open it up and clean the tiny passage, but be careful not to damage the black plunger. NOTE that there is a spring in there so hold it on with a finger when taking off the last screw or it will bounce off! (stole the pic from this forum somewhere 8-)) |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 11:06:36 I'm not A Carb Goo Reaux.. So, I'm tossing questions at those guys. So, don't grab anything I say and pick up tools and walk towards your bike. Wait for one of the smart guys to agree. If it's dying at idle but running on down the road, it's not fuel delivery To the carb, right? So, could it be crap in the idle circuit/jet? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Dave on 10/05/16 at 11:11:49 Could be the Idle circuit.....the pilot jet has a tiny little metering hole in it. When a carb gets dirty or gunked up - that is usually the first thing that becomes clogged and doesn't allow fuel to flow. It can be accessed by dropping the float bowl, and using a small screw driver. If the jet has been in there a while...sometimes they are hard to remove without stripping the screw slot (the jet is made from brass and can be easily damaged). |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 11:29:22 Is there any way to clear it without pulling it? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Dave on 10/05/16 at 11:46:09 If the pilot jet is clogged from something getting pulled up by the flow of fuel....you may be able to clear it out by removing the idle/fuel mixture screw - and spraying carb cleaner into the place where the screw was.......and maybe a gentle blow with compressed air. (If you take the mixture screw out - it is best to first count the number of turns needed to lightly seat it - that way you can get it back to where it was before you removed it). If the pilot jet is blocked by corrosion or gum.....it can stick really tightly into that tiny hole, and sometimes you have to soak it in cleaner or run a very small wire through to get the junk dislodged. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 12:54:04 If it was my problem, I'd be going with what Dave said, and pay attention to air. (If you take the mixture screw out - it is best to first count the number of turns needed to lightly seat it - that way you can get it back to where it was before you removed it). And by Lightly, he means very lightly. The tip of that soft brass needle is pointed, and easily damaged. Carefully count the turns in, write it down, remove the needle, do the job, install, carefully, count back out to Home position. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/05/16 at 18:05:42 I really stink. I found the TEV pretty easy but... it has regular screws in it not Allen screws. I tried hard but couldnt budge any of em. Started to strip one so left it alone. The bike only has 7k miles on it. Is it normal for a carb to get gummy that quick I rode it all winter last winter then slowed down in the spring and summer due to family health issues. Only about 2x a month since april 2016. I changed my air filter even though I did this last fall. It's not too dirty but it is it normal for it to smell strongly of gasoline? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by stewmills on 10/05/16 at 20:02:42 The screws are JIS, not a standard phillips. Therefore a regular phillips will slip on a stubborn screw. You need an impact driver but you won't easily find JIS bits for it. Lube the screws with wd40 or blaster, then a few delicate smacks should break them loose. You probably want to do it with the carb off though, but don't best it to death and smush it. DON'T get frustrated...you aren't doing anything that most of us haven't done too! Some say you can grind a tip from a standard phillips and it works better on those screws, but I've never tried it. Once out, then replace them with some allen screws!!! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/05/16 at 20:34:42 It's not normal for the filter to smell strongly of gas,fuel can only enter the carb by way of the float valve . You need to check the valve and valve seat ,and float level . If the level is to high fuel has two places to go,out the carb to the air filter or into the cylinder past your rings into your oil. you should remove your oil filler cap and see if you can smell gas in your oil. Is your Raptor petcock a Yamaha or a fleabay purchase ? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/06/16 at 17:47:50 Just an update. Haven't done anything else. Too tired. There seems to be gas in the oil by the smell of it. I so have a yamaha oem petcock but I don't think that is the problem. Gonna do an oil change this week. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/16 at 18:58:01 Just because it's the Yamaha petcock doesn't mean your float valve isn't flooding the carb. If it's not turned off and the float valve is not shutting off, then the gas can get in the oil. Have you Really told Everything you know about that bike that would Possibly relate to the problem you're trying to solve? Nobody can Know the history and maintenance. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/07/16 at 17:34:15 Got me. It's a 2007. I bought in 2014. Only 7k miles no service records with it when I bought. Looked like new then still does. Maybe the diaphragm os sticking, not sure. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/16 at 18:44:07 Float valve, |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/07/16 at 19:21:16 Float valve! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by stewmills on 10/07/16 at 19:34:22 Given that you don't have the stock vacuum petcock, I'd say float valve too. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/08/16 at 18:52:52 I have to admit I have no carb knowldge. Please don't mind my lay man's terms... having said that... the pivot rod for the float seems to work. By that I mean it easily flops up and down when I flick it with my finger. The manual says to bend it to the right depth but I didn't want to break it and had no idea what that meant. So. I replaced the gasket and put the bowl back on. And did an oil change. I noticed 2 things. Some small sand or glass like grains in the oil and only a few. Not metal shavings. And...the same in my puke tube that comes, I think, from the air box. Took it for a short 1 mile ride. Seemed like it was "bucky" in first gear. 2 and 3rd and 4th fine. I have a whistling noise as well which could be an air leAK but can find it. Comes from the right side of bike. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/08/16 at 23:50:47 That float that you flicked up and watched it fall down has a valve on it. If you pull the rod that float pivot s on. You can inspect the float valve. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/09/16 at 23:15:40 You could check out THE MOTORCYCLE HANDYMAN.by Greg Dubois at ilovebikes @ Comcast.net (a video brake down of the entire s40 ) |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by verslagen1 on 10/10/16 at 07:27:30 7A796C7579762C20180 wrote:
you mean this or is it some thing new? http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392 |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/10/16 at 15:37:48 yes Vercy ,That's the one ,it's been so long since I downloaded it ,I couldn't find it ! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/14/16 at 15:33:51 I'm sorry to say... I must go to a mechanic. I changed the bowl gasket and changed the oil. Now I can't get it to start with out excessive throttle and can't keep it running with out excessive throttle. I have failed. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/14/16 at 16:00:24 I can get it started but when I go into 1st gear engine stalls abruptly. More gas in puke tube too. Have no idea. Wish I went to school. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/14/16 at 16:28:15 Forgot about the kickstand |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/16 at 18:22:23 You should have been asking questions while it was apart. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/15/16 at 14:35:58 I wouldn't know what to do with the answers. Lol |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/16/16 at 14:32:55 Ok. I actually tried today. I emptied the gas and put 93 octane instead of 87. Didn't help...much. ran it around the driveway and really had to keep the throttle up to prevent stalling. Had a good bit of gas in the crankcase breather tube. I swapped out the petcock for the original vacume operated petcock. Didn't help. I took off seat, tank and carb. However, I can not get those screwy screws off the top of the carb to inspet it. Tried all my drivers. Are these screws jis too? While at it. I replaced the plug. It was pretty dark with carbon but othewise looked pretty good. It appears to have been gappend at well over 041. inches. I replaced with a dpr8ea-9 gapped between 031 and 035. Any pointers on what I should do about those srewy screws? Much appreciated. John |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Kenny G on 10/16/16 at 14:55:02 Johnny, If you have a small soldering iron put the tip of it on the end of the screw for a minute or two to break loose the thread sealer. Grind the tip off of a #2 Phillips Head Driver and try twisting. If that doesn't work you should be able to get a hold of the screws with a small vice grip pliers. Replace the screws with stainless Allen Head Screws, if you can find them, if not the hardware store will have real Phillips Head metric screws that are satisfactory. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/16/16 at 19:22:23 Kenny G, great idea. In lieu of a soldering iron can I use a heat gun? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Kenny G on 10/16/16 at 19:38:41 Johnny, I am sure a heat gun will not get hot enough. I failed to mention that before you start with the soldering iron make sure the gasoline is completely drained from the carburetor. Have plenty of ventilation. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/17/16 at 07:57:45 Do you guys think performance carb from Lancer would be overkill? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/17/16 at 21:55:33 YOU need to pull the carb out and take the float out and inspect the float valve tip for damage,YOU flicked the float valve with your finger which may well have bent the tab the valve hangs on changing the float level which you need to check, while you have the float out you need to shake it /or submerse it to make sure it has no pin hole leaks.THe carbon on the spark plug ,the gas running out the carb are signs of the float level be to high!If you have not checked the float level as many of us have advised buying a after market (harder to tune ) carb isn't something I would advise. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/18/16 at 16:33:32 Good points. To get the pivot pin out do I use an awl? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/18/16 at 21:10:13 BE careful, if I remember the pin only slides out in one direction.You need to be gentile ,the body of the carb is just pot metal and will break ,you don't want to be spending $500.00+ on a new one.you could use an awl , a pin punch, a finish nail(round off the point ) but try just slight pressure ,don't drive it with a hammer! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/19/16 at 19:23:57 Well guys. I'm feeling pretty good. I was able to get the carb apart. The solder iron didn't work for me but a small pen torch loosened the lok tight. Gonna replace the screws for the TEV and the top of the carb as well. I checked all the jets air and fuel. They are all clear. Surprised how clean this thing is inside. I checked both diaphragms and they are hardly sticky. There are 8 questions that I have.... 1. There is a long brass tube (maybe jet) that goes through the carb body under the pilot jet. Is there a way to remove this and clean it? Or should I? 2. To test the float do I float in a bowl of gas? I know it is a stupid question. 3. The small metal clip that holds the needle valve on seems pretty loose. Should it be?or should I tighten it around the float tab? 4. I dI'd not take the throttle plunger and shafts off. Do I need to do this? 5. I could not loosen the screw under the float that holds the needle valve assembly. Is it necessary for me to go ahead and do this to inspect the needle valve assembly. If so I feel I can remove the screw but will probably need to replace it. 6. Would I benefit in any way by shaving/sanding the spacer ring at this time or is a moot point? 7. Anyone know the threads/specs of the TEV screws and carb cover screws so that I can replace them with Phillies or allens? 8. Lastly, my plug was way out of spec in terms of gap. Is it possible that the plug cause the hard starts and stalling and that I had the fuel problems because I kept flooding the engine? As to say....maybe it was never a carberator problem? Thank you guys for your patience and advice. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Kenny G on 10/19/16 at 19:52:21 Johnny, Here are the screw specs that you asked for. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/20/16 at 06:20:28 Thank you Kenny! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/20/16 at 14:23:21 REPLY 1)JUST SPRAY WITH CLEANER AND AIR 2)SHAKE IT,IF YOU DON'T HEAR FLUID INSIDE THAT'S GOOD ,SUBMERSE IN WATER ,LOOK FOR BUBBLES ,NONE OK. 3)NO THE FLOAT MOVES IN AN ARC THE VALVE NEEDLE MOVE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN ,THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME PLAY . 4)NO JUST SPRAY 5)YES YOU SHOULD REMOVE IT TO CHECK THE SCREEN FILTER UNDER IT 6)YOUR RIGHT THERE ,bUT I WOULDN'T REDUCE IT BUY MORE THAN 25% (THAT SHOULD HELP REDUCE BACKFIRES. 7)SEE ABOVE 8) YOU TELL US! PUT THE CARB BACK TOGETHER (CHECK YOUR FLOAT LEVEL PLEASE !) TRY IT! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by verslagen1 on 10/20/16 at 15:11:07 6063766F636C363A020 wrote:
Why you shouting? ;D water should be hot so air inside expands. even then the leak can be so fine that the air just dissipates into the water. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 10/20/16 at 19:35:53 I promise I'm gonna get to the float....but....first...update... I bought all new screws for the TEV valve and the diaphram cover. I bought a fuel filter I bought 3, 1mm spacers/washers So I decided to go ahead and check the air mixture screw to make sure it wasn't buggered by the previous owner. Oh man. What a mistake. Thank God for this forum. The plug was gone so I figured it was messed with at one time. I slowly began unscrewing it. It was coming easy till I got close to the end and it just locked up. I backed it back in easily but ever time I tried to bring it back out it got stuck. Eventually I sheared off one side of the groove and could get it out. I used the advice here and used a 1/16 and then 5/64 to drill it out then a #10 torx. It came out very easy at that point but with some nice squeeking every crank. Once out I realized my drill hole came right through the side of the needle area. Wow. I was lucky. I then decided to remove the screw for the float assembly valve. LAST jis screw! That little sob was so hard to get out. I ended up sawing a notch in it and lo and behold it came right out with a flat head. Once I removed the screw and needle plate I could not go any further. How do I get the valve assembly out? It doesn't seem threaded. I can't see a screen/filter in there anywhere. All in all a good night. Had to stop to rest the legs for the night. Until tomorrow! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 10/20/16 at 20:43:54 vercy not mad caps lock stuck ! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/16 at 01:52:05 I don't know the answer to the questions, but don't modify anything. Don't add the filter until you have it running right. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Dave on 10/21/16 at 07:47:01 7A5F585E49525C515455300 wrote:
The aluminum threads in the carb body have become corroded, and even the new replacement screw will not fit well and can you can strip the slot as you put the new screw in. You need to get a tap and clean up the thread before you put in a new mixture screw. The thread size and pitch is a 6.0mm x 0.50, this is really fine and it is hard to find a tap locally - but they can be found on the internet. I have a tap and will loan it to you - but you will have to pay postage and a deposit until I get it back. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/11/16 at 12:54:01 Well guys. It's time to call a pro. Cleaned carb thoroughly and replaced jets with factory. Checked/inspected diaphrams, inspected and tested float and float level (it passed). New fuel line. New fuel filter. New petcock. New sparky plug gapped. Oil change. New vacume plug. Started on first crank. A good sign. I thought. Ran down the road a mile shifted good, sounded good, felt good. Got up my drive way, stall. won't turn over again. Wants to. BUT wont. I bet I did valve damage or something from running too lean in the past. This is too big for me. If this is expensive I don't know if this bike will stay. I paid 2,900.00 for it and I hope it's not something huge. It does look brand new too. Just spent 3k on the boat, and my truck has 253,000 miles on it. Really can't bleed anymore money. Post script. Thank you Dave for the very kind offer to borrow the tap. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/11/16 at 13:04:25 If you did valve damage you wouldn't have been able to start it or ride it and be able to say that it "felt good". How's the battery? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by verslagen1 on 11/11/16 at 13:13:47 012423253229272A2F2E4B0 wrote:
explain "won't turn over again" a. push button nothing happens b. push button, engines spin, no fire. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/12/16 at 09:00:23 Johnny you need to answer a or b to the question Versy asked above ! new fuel line new fuel filter? did you add a fuel filter to the line ? It can become air bound an stop flow to the carb ,and is really not needed.The gas cap on the tank is vented to allow air into the tank as fuel level drops,air passes through the key slot ,down through the lock and out two small holes in the plastic cap inside. If the pathway is plugged the tank builds up a vacuum and fuel to the carb stops. If the bike starts again and then dies take the cap off and see if you hear a rush off air into the tank,that would let you know it might be this problem,and the bike should restart. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/13/16 at 06:36:57 I am so confused. To answer versys question ....ran fine for a mile sputtered and stalled. Attempt to restart was met with engine turning but no fire. A few hkurs later i called my friend who is a trained/skilled bike mechanic (lives far away). He said, "Let me hear it." It started first try. WHAT the heck. He had a few recommendations for me, some which make sense and some that I won't do. He told me it could be a weak battery or dying/not functining well stator. H le told me to test the battery before and after running to be sure. He told me he didn't trust me inside a carb (but it was really not that bad and is super clean now). He said to buy a used car on ebay and put it in. NO way. NOT going that route. GONNA check battery first and stator. He told me to replace the rubber boots going to the air box and to the carb from engine. I don't think this is really needed either. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/13/16 at 08:27:22 Checking for a leak between carb and engine would not be a bad idea. But, number one on the list of Stuff that makes people crazy Weak battery Screwed up petcock If I am having trouble with anything starting I squirt some ether in. It's either fuel, air or spark. Give it fuel. See what happens. After you're sure the battery is up. Pulling the plug to test spark doesn't Prove it is firing under compression, just that the ignition system is alive and will make it spark. If the battery is Skippy and spinning the motor over, but the starter motor current draw drops the battery voltage enough, the plug won't fire. To test the spark, get another plug, put the plug wire on it, and ground it, hit start. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by verslagen1 on 11/13/16 at 08:55:04 Can you tell us what jets you have installed? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/13/16 at 15:34:01 Hi huys. I used starting fluid and sprayed around all my hoses to see if there was a leak. No increase in idle so I think not, although it could be possible. I replaced the jets with the factory jets. Nothing different. Only replaced because the new ones are shiny. :) Replaced plug and gapped. Could it be my decompression cable what ever that is? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/13/16 at 16:50:31 Decomp. is only used for starting, and your bike starts cold so don't go there. you have compression (the bike starts)so rings and valves are ok,it fires ,so you have spark , that leaves fuel!The carb is clean,the jets are new and stock ,that leaves ,float level which should be set to1.06 to1.14 inches ,and Ihope you swapped the Raptor petcock back in,or a vacuum forming in the tank due to the gas cap not venting,which I talked about in the above post.PS> I don't think your friend knows his stuff.you didn't answer my question about a fuel filter,did you add an inline fuel filter? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/13/16 at 20:25:51 Checked the float before installation and it met the spec. I used a vernier caliper . Raptor is on. May take off fuel filter but it seems to be working. Gas Cap is clear doesn't seem like an air lock issue. Tested battery several times which read 12.06 volts lowest reading to 12.12 volts highest reading. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/13/16 at 20:36:14 The fuel filter could be the problem, unless the gas line is run right these filters can be come air bond and stop your flow. They are not needed you have a filter on the petcock and there is another in the carb under the float valve seat. do yourself a favor and toss it, just run a plain hose between the petcock and carb. and see if that doesn't stop your problem.AS for checking the float before you installed it? I don't think you grasp the idea of setting the float height. the float height is the distance measured from the flange of the float bowl to the top of the float holding the carb in an inverted position,AFTER THE FLOAT IS INSTALLED (the distance when the float valve is fully closed) and is adjusted by gently bending the small tab that the float valve hangs from .It is very important! Too high ,the carb floods ,too low and you don't have enough to keep the motor running.float HEIGTH 1.04 to 1.16 inches. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by ohiomoto on 11/14/16 at 06:56:59 Agree with ditching the inline filter. I think they are great for lawnmowers and that's about it. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/14/16 at 17:49:11 ..ran fine for a mile sputtered and stalled. Attempt to restart was met with engine turning but no fire. There's your clue.. Everything ok.. No valves bent, the engine Will run. If you have a fuel filter on it, take it off, get a new fuel line, factory spec size. You don't need a professional, just patience and an ability to accurately describe the symptoms and the ability to read, answer questions and do what is suggested. Using ether to hunt for a leak is good. I would drain the bowl, catch and measure the gas. If it's almost empty, then you aren't getting fuel. When you are trying unsuccessfully to start it, why not shoot some ether in the air box? When something is giving me fits, I'm not just trying to get it started. I wanna know what is keeping it From starting. It's air, fuel or spark. Sounds like fuel. Before you get it to run and haul butt, only to be stranded, get the battery charged up.. If it's a lead acid, check the water, and that requires removing it. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/15/16 at 10:53:54 Got rid of fuel filter. Measured fuel in bowl. It was full. Took out battery ot is also full. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/15/16 at 11:31:34 290C0B0D1A010F020706630 wrote:
Well there's your problem right there, the float bowl should NOT be full of fuel. The fuel level should be 6.5 to 7.5mm (about 1/4 inch) from the top of the bowl. BTW, it's darn-near impossible to measure that without using a equal-gravity site tube (aka a piece of clear tubing). |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/15/16 at 14:07:25 Yeah.I eye balled what came out. Didn't use the tube method before i put it back on. Gonna go to mech and see what he says and will let you all know. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/15/16 at 14:41:12 Gary ,you might as well give up ! I've told him what the float level is .why his bike doesn't run ,given him directions on how to fix it and the proper float height. MY guess is he really likes walking! You can lead a horse to water.......... but he's headed to the stealers! Maybe he should check Arcreefer's last 5 pages of posts I think these guys may be twins by different mothers. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/16 at 08:25:55 444E4A404B42464F111713230 wrote:
Well there's your problem right there, the float bowl should NOT be full of fuel. The fuel level should be 6.5 to 7.5mm (about 1/4 inch) from the top of the bowl. BTW, it's darn-near impossible to measure that without using a equal-gravity site tube (aka a piece of clear tubing).[/quote] He's right. I forgot about the possibility that you were over full. Don't go spend money yet. IDK how you checked the float level, but I know it took me quite a while to get satisfied that I was doing it right.. The clear tubing on the drain nipple held up to reveal the fuel level in the bowl is The answer. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/16/16 at 10:02:09 JOG, I really don't know if the level in in the float bowl is high ,I tend to think in this case it's low,because the bike sets on the side stand for a few hours and starts,due I think to the fuel level shifting and allowng a small flow into the bowl, but running the bike is upright and the level drops starving the main jet (bike runs out of gas won't restart).It's hard to impress on these newbie s that the carb can be clean,but if the float level isn't set right the bike won't run. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/16 at 10:27:17 I was working from Low float. BUT, who cares? Tubing, bowl nipple. FIND OUT WHERE THE FUEL LEVEL IS. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/18/16 at 16:04:18 696A7F666A653F330B0 wrote:
I mentioned in my ealier posts. that I measured the float level with the vernier calipers and is within spec.anyway... I did notice my fuel line is only half full and my air mix screw is pretty loose. So I thought maybe I got the wrong screw. Ordered and oem one and it totally different. Took out the air mix screw and noticed the small rubber ring was not on the end of the needle screw. Replaced new oem screw. The fuel line filled right up. So maybe there was something to that. Will test ride tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Johnnyblade on 11/18/16 at 17:37:34 5E5D48515D5208043C0 wrote:
Sorry I was not clear. I measured the float installed in the carberartor not the carberator installed in the bike. I used mm instead of inches which was fine. I do "grasp" the concept. I appreciate the help. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by laukinis on 11/19/16 at 14:06:08 hello! I am sorry for interrupting your trouble shooting. I got similar problem. I run out of gas then I refilled full tank. And can not start engine. i was trying like 10 times for 5 seconds, once It started for few seconds and stops again. I was trying to start it week ago and today .no luck. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/19/16 at 18:26:23 Turn petcock to Prime Wait a few seconds Hit the button |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by laukinis on 11/20/16 at 13:49:41 Done as you told! But nothing changed. Starter turns but no fire. After few turn gas smell came out. :( . |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/20/16 at 14:14:11 Did you charge your battery ?If the battery voltage drops below 10 volts , and it does drop when you hit the starter,you'll have no spark(not enough power to the ignition module ) |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by laukinis on 11/20/16 at 15:40:59 i quickly charged a battery before i was trying to start it all the time . Voltage was 12,4. But voltage drops very fast! ok i will try to charge a battery to full and then i will try ! This batt is two years old. simplest Pb. Maybe new one is needed? |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 11/20/16 at 15:48:09 If you have a set of jumper cables you could jump it off a car (not running!) and motorcycle batteries should be charged at a slow rate,say less than 2amps /per hour. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/20/16 at 15:50:22 4F5056514C4B7A4A7A42505C17250 wrote:
Pulling the battery to A check your water level B Get it tested Is a hassle But, so is what you're going through. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/21/16 at 06:41:36 12.4 VDC is a dead battery. You should see a static charge of around 12.8 VDC for a healthy battery. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by laukinis on 11/21/16 at 14:28:04 I took battery from my car. It turns engine easy but still no fire. Petcock on prime works fine. So I removed seat and tank. Need a plug tool to remove it to check it . I will write you about spark. Looks like its gone. Thank you all!!! |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by laukinis on 02/24/17 at 14:07:04 Good news winter almost finished but still tempereture is negative in Celsius ! In april will be legal to drive motorcycle again. I Started my Savage :) I tried to change petrol, removed sparkplug and cleaned , set a petcock on Prime and with car battery it started! Than you all for help!!! I think raptor works bad. Because hard to start in reserve or on position, but engine works when i change position from prime to res. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/17 at 19:18:57 Dirt and crud hide by the plug. Blow it out or do something to inspect down there. Doesn't take a lot of crap on top of the piston to be a problem. |
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Title: Re: Hard starts and stalling Post by batman on 02/24/17 at 19:41:54 Laukins, A raptor petcock doesn't have a pri. position only the stock petcock does,get a raptor! |
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