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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Choke Question /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1474994829 Message started by notarealbiker on 09/27/16 at 09:47:09 |
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Title: Choke Question Post by notarealbiker on 09/27/16 at 09:47:09 Well, today was the first cold(ish) morning this season and the first time the S40 has been reluctant to start. It would turn over and fire but would stumble a few times and die. Only had the bike since early August, I have never needed to use the choke in warm weather and figured this was the appropriate time. Much to my surprise the choke made the situation worse - bike wouldn't fire if I hit the ignition with it out and bike would instantly die if I pulled it out when it was in stumble mode. I ended up just starting it, no choke, and running with the throttle slightly cranked for 10-15 seconds. That seemed to do the trick and I was off to work like any other day. Question is - if the choke is killing the bike does that mean my jetting is slightly off??? Maybe my idle mix is too rich or too lean? |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 09/27/16 at 18:37:34 Might be a little rich. How much choke are you using? I never need to pull the knob more than 1 notch and I ride in single digit temps. Full choke will cause the engine to stumble and smoke. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by ohiomoto on 09/28/16 at 05:37:51 As a general rule, "full choke" is used for cold starts. Once running, you would set it to "half choke" for a warm up period to help maintain an idle until warm. It sounds like your bike was looking for a bit of extra fuel but probably not a full choke. I've been commuting a decent amount on my bike lately and on colder mornings. I've really only need to use the 1/2 choke to keep the idle up after starting it up. And my bike is rich (previous owner put a 55 pilot in it). I run 1/2 choke for a few stops in my neighborhood and turn it off as soon as I hit my first +mile run. By time I get to my next stop it's warmed up and holding it's idle. If you don't have any longer runs early in your ride, you might need to keep the choke on for a few extra stops before the bike reaches operating temps. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/28/16 at 05:38:20 The "choke" is actually an enrichment circuit. It's very possible that you flooded your cylinder with several failed start attempts, so when you added the choke you added too much fuel for the start. I would give it another try, using the choke on a cold morning, before jumping to conclusions and changing things that might nor need changing. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by notarealbiker on 09/28/16 at 09:35:20 Thanks - it's very possible that I might have pulled the choke out more than halfway. Will try again on the next cold morning that isn't a rainy downpour. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/28/16 at 11:36:42 Pull it out all the way...that's how it works. After the engine settles into a fast idle you can reduce the idle by pushing the knob in by a click. I use the choke for every cold start - even in the summer. 20-30 seconds later I'm ready to ride. I don't bother with the mid position for starting or idling. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by MnSpring on 09/28/16 at 18:37:25 I DO NOT, use the ‘Choke’, unless it is really, Really, REALLY, cold. I Took a little piece of alum, about 1/16” thick. ( or -) Crack open the throttle, (Engine Off) Put it between the throttle stop and carb. And start. What it does, is Start the engine, with OUT, putting gobs of gas, on the cylinder, it Starts, let it idle (UP RIGHT), while I am sitting on it, put on my jacket, and helmut. then, with out moving they throttle, go down the 900’ drive, in 1st, about 12 mph, stop at the Co Rd. Look and go. (Using the throttle). Can count on one hand, (and have 3 fingers left over), the times I need the Choke. The little shim, then attached a little very durable cord, to a place, so it just drops out when I open the Throttle, Then it is their next time. Other thing that possibly works, Is that when coming home, I shut off the Pedcock, (Raptor), (Learned where to do this on the road), so the gas in the Carb, is 1/2 or 3/4 Less. Then going, first thing, is turn on the Pedcock, while rolling it out of the shed, So it is, ‘fresh’ gas in the Carb. Try it. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 09/28/16 at 18:53:44 Your "throttle shim" is essentially doing the same thing as the choke. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Dave on 09/29/16 at 03:55:29 Not sure why....my stock carb never wanted any choke in the 50 degree and up weather that I ride in. The carb was jetted conservatively with a #150 main, #50 Pilot, and it wanted only 2 washers on the needle to cure the mid range lean surge, and I checked the float level. I used an oxygen sensor and meter to confirm the jetting was correct, and not too rich or lean. It just fired right up without using and choke (and the throttle in the closed position). Once running, it did idle a bit slower then when it would after it was warmed up - but that is normal for an engine with a carb and my right hand is on the throttle when I am riding.....so I would just crank in a bit of throttle to keep the idle where I wanted it until the bike warmed up. When riding from home there are only 2 STOP signs in the first 2 miles - so it really was never a problem that required any fancy trickery to get a faster idle speed for a cold engine. Now that I am running a Mikuni Round slide....it likes to have the choke (enrichment lever) whenever the engine has cooled off - but only to get it started. The choke comes off immediately after the engine fires. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by HAPPYDAN on 09/29/16 at 08:25:21 It does sound a bit like it was flooded. Also, I've found that ethanol in the gas is a real killer for this dinosaur. Try using non-ethanol gas, or, like I do, always add STA-BIL before a fill-up. It helps. Some shops sell a fuel additive that works even better, and recommend it for any of the large-displacement low-compression engines. It just seems that my 650 thumper can't handle the booze! ;) Anyone know of a 12-step program for motorcycles? |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Dave on 09/29/16 at 11:22:40 360B10070636150B0107620 wrote:
Yep: 1) Dyna Muffler 2) Wiseco 3) Webcam 4) Mikuni Round Slide 5) Head port work 6) Kawasaki Pulleys 7) Shawn's Big Brake kit 8) Big Fuel Tank 9) Comfy Seat 10) Saddlebags 11) Windshield 12) Speedo/Tach with trip odometer and clock! |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by MnSpring on 09/29/16 at 18:42:31 162F342E6D6C5D0 wrote:
Hi Kris, I don't think so. The Choke and Throttle are two different things on a ICE, (Internal Combustion Engine). The Choke, changes the gas/air mix. Granted, when it is very cold, or on some ICE's it is necessary. This particular ICE, (this S-40), the, 'shim' works well to about 45f. I have a big twin Kawoi, on a lawn mower, at 90+ it STILL needs Choke. Have another one, single, about 1/2 the size, 20 above, No Choke! Try this, bike is fully warmed up, increase the throttle a bit, what happens. now let it down, and pull out the choke, what happens. It is just a thing to try, it may work well for some, may not work for others. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/30/16 at 05:59:57 15360B282A31363F580 wrote:
The Choke and Throttle are two different things on a ICE [/quote] True, but if you have an OEM carb on your S40, then the "choke" is actually an enrichment circuit. Not quite the same as giving it a bit of throttle, but pretty darn close. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 09/30/16 at 14:17:48 My reasoning is that by giving it slightly more throttle, you are increasing the airflow in the carb which creates a stronger vacuum to suck in more fuel through the jets. More fuel running through the carb is essentially the same as the choke dumping more fuel into the engine. However, just increasing the throttle (with no choke) also increases the airflow along with fuel. You're really not making the AFR richer. You're providing both fuel and air with the throttle. You provide only fuel with the choke. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Steve H on 10/02/16 at 07:24:37 Mine like half choke below about 55 deg and full choke at around 35 or below. It will pop and sputter without the choke but never start and run in those temps without it. I don't use it if I don't need it. The bike warms up quickly. Well, it's a little slower warming up when the temps are around freezing. The little ninja wants choke any time the temps are below about 70. And, it insists on warming up a bit before I take off or it'll just die. The heater blowing back out of the fairings is nice. Now, if I could just figure a way to direct the warm air a little better for those cold days. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Rodger on 10/11/16 at 08:14:09 For what it's worth.... I have a box-stock 2015 S40, and I pull the choke/enrichener knob out all the way to start, pushing in to the 1/2 position a few seconds after the engine starts. I let the engine warm up in that 1/2 position while doing safety checks ( lights & horn ) and putting on helmet & gloves. (And after reading about cam lubrication here, all that is done while sitting on the bike, not on the sidestand.) The enrichener knob gets pushed all the way in before I ride off. This "drill" seems to work well for me and don't experience any rideability issues. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/16 at 10:17:28 Sounds like it's working out. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Some seem to need the choke. My 05 did, the one I have now? Better Not pull it,, it's not gonna start.. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 10/11/16 at 17:34:46 I pull mine out to the first stop and leave it there for a few miles to warm up. I can tell when it's warmed up enough to push back in when it idles too high with the clutch pulled in. I leave it out for about 2 or 3 miles, but never all the way. The engine doesn't like that. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by notarealbiker on 10/12/16 at 09:59:45 Update since it's been cold (40s) / not rainy for a few days. If I try to start with no choke the starter will turn but the ignition will not "catch." If I pull the choke and try to start the starter sounds even more labored with it engaged (still won't catch). If I then disengage the choke the bike will start (slightly rough) but after a few seconds of mild throttle it's good to go. At least it's been consistent the last few days. FYI as a new-ish rider blasting down the road in the low 40s on the way to work I realize - I need some better gloves / possibly chaps.... Brrrrrrr..... |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Rodger on 10/12/16 at 10:54:46 +notarealbiker This set of ski bibs has worked well for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032UJ2C2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Just keep the nylon away from your bike's exhaust!! ;) |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Dave on 10/12/16 at 11:10:16 5E5A5D5C4D4C4B48424C5B290 wrote:
You should understand the choke (enrichment knob) only works if the throttle is closed - so don't move the hand throttle if you pull the choke on. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 10/12/16 at 18:22:53 Really? I didn't know that. Before I rejetted I would ride with the choke on the 1st notch to enrich the AFR. It didn't surge so bad that way. What gives? |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by HAPPYDAN on 10/12/16 at 19:47:48 787C7B7A6B6A6D6E646A7D0F0 wrote:
Here in wet WA, below 50* is full-on sno-mo suit, to include face mask and balaclava. Below 40*, too much risk of black ice, so Suzi Savi stays in the garage! Have you tried a rechargeable electric heated suit? Cheers and Good Luck! |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Dave on 10/13/16 at 03:14:05 172E352F6C6D5C0 wrote:
When you roll off the throttle, the throttle plate closes and allows the choke to start working again....so the choke provides more fuel where the lean condition that causes backfiring occurs. |
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Title: Re: Choke Question Post by Kris01 on 10/13/16 at 10:36:05 Thanks Dave. I guess it's true. You really do learn something new every day. |
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