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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1474896342 Message started by Oldfeller on 09/26/16 at 06:25:41 |
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Title: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 09/26/16 at 06:25:41 As I age out, I most regret not being able to shoot open sights any more ...... I am not alone, there is an industry springing up that is fitting small reflex sights to pistols and rifles. I find that a red dot scope (or a small reflex likely would do the same job) mounted as far out on the barrel as possible offers a concise small red dot that misses out on the blurring and parallax issues that you can get if you mount the red dot scope in closer on your receiver. You actually get the advantage of the "long eye sight radius" as far as accuracy goes. ... And way out on the barrel puts the little red dot in your normal longer distance vision range (works with your bifocal glasses much better). I took a Steyr to the last scoot and shoot with a red dot mounted this way. That first effort can be refined a bit, and I am working on modding an old Yugo mauser to use this system in a more normal upright shooting orientation. There is shooting hope for those who can't see very well any more ...... |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by stewmills on 09/26/16 at 07:09:00 I need a solution too, but not for old eyes. I have fluid build-up in the back of my right eye (not glaucoma) that causes my vision in that eye to see things as if someone put a dab of vaseline right in the middle of my eye. Periphery is decent, but center field of vision in daylight is all gobbled looking, At night it is exacerbated and along with some astigmatism I have a pretty nice sized blind spot in my center field of vision. Point being, that I hunt armadillos in my yard at night when it's their time of the year to come tear up my yard, and lately I have had to lay my head over and look out of the scope with my left eye while holding and shooting right-handed. If I had something really bright, like maybe a laser or something, I cold maybe see that good enough to still target with my gooked up right eye. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by LANCER on 09/26/16 at 07:42:54 How much are these little things ? |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 09/26/16 at 08:13:02 https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Universal-Single-rail-Rifle-Barrel/dp/B001WJ0CFQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474902552&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=picannny+barrel+mounts http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYNmaCwP8artmeJgq06haSGyxCItrIgtNjND7zD-vFIHfdAlil0g This barrel clamp on mount is $10.99 at Amazon Amazon has rails to fit just about any gun out there, plus a mort of barrel mounts and side mounts and every other kind of mount under the sun. ====================================== https://www.amazon.com/Xwin--t-i-n-n-y-Mounting-Brightness-Hunting/dp/B01IKGHK3K/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1474902696&sr=8-13&keywords=small+reflex+sight http://https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41bgAzdDpUL._SX425_.jpg This is only $11.99 at Amazon, and there are a MORT of other fancier types of red dots and reflex sights if you go look even a little tiny bit on Amazon. ;) READ the printed descriptions to get the lengths and the number of slots, etc. DO NOT TRUST THE PICTURES as they are often wrong on Amazon when buying the little stuff. ..... And the good point about the barrel mount is that it comes off very easily should you not want to keep it on the gun all the time. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 09/26/16 at 08:34:53 Tips on how to shoot a red dot at LONG ranges. Don't cant the gun (same thing as for scopes, you move the scope away from the vertical center line of the barrel axis when you let it lay over any at all. Keep the dot power turned down, literally until you can see through the dot itself to see the very distant target details. The dot may be vague and fuzzy because your eyes are crappy, and it is sometimes larger than the bullseye but if put the bullseye in the center of the red zone and squeeze off the shot the gun will deliver the bullet on target. A scope is nice, but it is slow to pick up on deer and such in poor light conditions. For hunting, a laser is a no-show. At any real distance the projected laser beam dot is hard to locate on items out in the woods. A red dot sight is MUCH quicker to aquire and it does not project a beamed laser dot that alerts both armadillo and deer, who are quite able to see the movement of a real laser dot anywhere near them and then they bolt and run away. EXAMPLE: Take a laser pointer and put a projected dot anywhere near a cat and see if they don't immediately react to the dot (stalk it & pounce on it). I made a cat try to climb a plaster wall once with a laser pointer, and the cat was disappointed when the game ended when my wife got all upset because I was teasing her cat with something it could never catch. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by verslagen1 on 09/26/16 at 10:15:18 6E4D4547444D4D4453210 wrote:
do it on a cement wall and tell her you're trimming the cat's nails. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by old.indian on 09/26/16 at 11:20:34 Stew': For short range a laser would be ideal. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by stewmills on 09/26/16 at 11:24:54 31323A7037303A373F305E0 wrote:
Just ordered one for the 10/22. At ~20 yards I hope I can see the laser good enough to use my 'bad' eye int he dark. We'll know this weekend :o |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by old.indian on 09/26/16 at 12:17:20 4B4C5D4F555154544B380 wrote:
Just ordered one for the 10/22. At ~20 yards I hope I can see the laser good enough to use my 'bad' eye int he dark. We'll know this weekend :o[/quote] Short range ,night shooting BOTH eyes open. and you should be in great shape .. (After you get the laser bore sighted...) |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by old_rider on 09/26/16 at 15:20:52 The rats in the backyard don't seem to mind the laser I have on my 22 Ruger |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/16 at 12:14:07 Ok, the various bits and pieces for this Mauser red dot system came in and are put together now. Result turned out better than expected, the barrel clamp Weaver rail is actually lower than the Mauser sights, so when taking the dot scope off (a quarter inserted in two slots) the gun is "natural Mauser" again from the operator's perspective. Nothing is affected mechanical sight wise, the elevation ladder still works, etc. etc. (Note: the Weaver taper system naturally re-seeks the same scope zero upon reassembly) Since it is actually on the rifle barrel in the middle of the barrel (the vertical axis centering is there naturally) you can slap the gun to your shoulder and the dot is simply right there in the center of the ghost ring effect that the red dot tube provides. If you are canting the gun any at all then the dot drifts to one side or another in the ghost ring, so you auto-correct for gun cant naturally and instantly. Put the dot on the target and squeeze the trigger -- 260 grain slug goes home and the target goes down. Centering of dot inside the ghost ring effect is completely automatic and totally natural to the shooter. This overcomes many of the issues seen with the little Steyr short rifles with the off center mounting of both scopes and red dots. Now, bad eyes ...... really don't play for much. You see a somewhat fuzzy target, just as good as your glasses prescription can provide. Ghost ring effect works just the same, fuzzy or not. Keep the dot turned down low and you can find a smaller target inside the weak projected red zone at those longer distances and still pop it with a bullet. My dot scales from 1 to 10 and I generally run it at 2 to get a weak dusk dot, and 3-5 for normal daylight plinking. In short, this system is pretty much ideal for poor old eyes and quick hunting type action. High magnification scopes are good too, but can require too much time in some sorts of hunting situations even if you turn the scope magnification way down. A cast bullet gun is always used inside 150 yards, generally speaking. Max range is set by the sub-2000 fps launch speed of the best, most accurate cast lead slugs, which means you get a rainbow trajectory at longer distances coupled with reduced arrival energy when they strike home. Bullet drop at 150 yards is 16-18" which on a red dot gun says "put the dot up over the top with the bottom of the dot touching where you want the bullet to strike". Easy enough, I guess. Being limited on top end speed, historically cast bullet guns shot heavy for caliber cast bullets. My Mauser shoots a custom designed slug that weights a whopping 250 grains and is noted for being the 8MM Maximum bullet .... hee hee, that's its name too, the Oldfeller 8MM Maximum. I current shoot the Frankenstein version of that same bullet, at 260 grains and this one is cast to be a throat fit, not bore fitted. as the .330" diameter of the slug suites the size of the throat, which on Mausers is oversized on the old JS chamber design, leaving room around jacketed bullets for a thick coating of viscous WWI trench mud. So my Frankie custom cast does not require the bullet nor the fired cases to be resized, just deprime, reprime, add powder and lightly crimp a new Frankie bullet in place. Full case and neck chambering fit and location are maintained as shot previously. Accurate, yes, but it goes POW with authority when you shoot it. Shot start pressure is increased as the bullet is getting COMPLETELY re-sized inside the first two inches of travel and rifling marks fully engages the entire length of the projectile right up to the big flat nose. This means cheap milsurp W860 and IMR 5010 powders can be used to good effect and they will burn cleanly enough as the pressure gets on up there enough to get the powder going good before the resizing action is completed and the now bore fitted slug squirts on down the barrel. Most plinking or squirrel / rabbit hunting is done at 50 yards or less and no drop needs to be considered. So, as you can see this red dot sight system is good within the limitations of what the gun will be used for and it is very quick and easy to use. Example, squirrels running and hiding on the other side of tree branches -- no problem, the big slug can go right on through a 10" diameter hardwood branch and the high velocity hard wood splinters constitutes additional "bullet mass" as far as concerns the squirrel on the receiving end. Deer get hit hard and do not go far at all. This same bullet has been used on large Elk and American Bison, so a deer presents a relatively easy kill for a Frankie slug. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/03/16 at 17:06:22 Mauser turned out so durn well I jest had to go redo the Steyr short rifle to put the dot scope all straight & upright and vertical instead of canted some as it was done previously due to having to avoid the stacking rod. Still did not turn out as nice as the Mauser did, but it is perfectly useable. Throw the Mauser to your shoulder and the dot is just there in the middle of things, already nicely centered. Not so with the Steyr ..... Dot scope is mounted "higher", relatively speaking. You are not cuddled down on the gun at all, but your neck is pretty much straight and you are looking "over the gun" so to speak. Not bad, really -- it just takes getting used to. Instead of using the side of your cheek as your touch reference as with other rifles, you have to use the point of your chin touching the top of the stock. ;) ....... and for a creaky old man, that might wind up being useful later on down the road when my neck gets cricked ..... |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/04/16 at 11:55:55 OK, it took about 15 minutes to bore sight both of the guns after I got me a little vise set up on the kitchen bar so the guns could look out the back door out 85 yards or so to the back woods to pick me out an aiming point. Very easy do, and it works remarkably well -- I will be on paper certainly when I get them out to the range. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Art Webb on 10/05/16 at 10:42:07 That looks a hell of a lot more functional than a receiver mounted regular scope honestly I hate a scope on a pistol, full stop, I'd take express sites, or Iron sites, same on a rifle, but i don't shoot long range (texas is brush country) that red dot setup though, might make a believer out of me |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/05/16 at 11:19:57 Art, these sights are only good for about 150 200 yards on a deer or pig sized target because there is no magnification involved. North Carolina has woods everywhere the deer are, so you can't see more than 100 yards anyway. Folks will be shooting the guns since I will be bringing them to future scoot and shoot events, so you can get some other opinions from the other people before jumping in yourself. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/05/16 at 11:21:14 Art, these sights are only good for about 150 200 yards on a deer or pig sized target because there is no magnification involved. North Carolina has woods everywhere the deer and pigs are, so you can't see more than 100 yards anyway. Folks will be shooting the guns since I will be bringing them to future scoot and shoot events, so you can get some other opinions from the other people before jumping in yourself. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 11:25:56 nstead of using the side of your cheek as your touch reference as with other rifles, you have to use the point of your chin touching the top of the stock. Everything else in your very good report gets my blood pumping. That just sounds really hard. The SKS rear sight is close enough to the front that I can choose which one is fuzzy or both kinda fuzzy, but, front sight,, I really wanna see that. I've stopped shooting for fun..watching accuracy go down with practice isn't much fun. The pistols, ehh, not much difference between now and a coupla years ago,, but some.. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/05/16 at 18:39:54 The issue with the Steyr rifle is that the front sight gets in the way of a true "down low and tight" red dot install to the barrel. To get rid of the riser that is used now would require removing the front sight band (shrunk in place solder tech) which is not undoable or somehow slicing a series of slots and recesses into the scope mount itself. Another method would be to shorten the wood forend which would require cutting off the wood and refitting the front stacking rod assembly. This is "more doable" as it just involves cutting and filing wood. But doing this in a visually appealing way and then providing a means of holding the two pieces of wood together out at the end has to be figured out. Both theoretical fixes are pending some shooting results that show enough accuracy to make either of these efforts worthwhile. I can judge the gun before doing the work, in other words. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/09/16 at 14:41:06 Gun shot well, two shots touching at 50 yards is enough to promote the next stage of development -- shorten the stock and re-bed the barrel. Mausers are clamp bedded with wood out at the end of the forearm. It was cheap, easy to do and fairly accurate. Mauser accuratizing people are split between full bedding and free floating the barrel, with each camp getting varying results on a gun by gun basis. They are old war guns after all, and asking them to do a single minute of angle is a little bit much to ask, really. My best cast mauser (so far anyway) was hard pressed to do six minutes at 100 yards, reliably. 8 minutes was more common, but that was with 6 cavity mold dropped cast bullets which simply are not as repeatable as jacketed bullets generally speaking. I decided to use a silicone bedding method on the entire thin part of the stock out at the end after I cut it off and rounded it a bit. I left a tiny portion of the original compressed wood bedding saddle to act as an alignment feature, since my stock is apparently warped a bit and the clamp saddle zone was off to one side a little tiny bit. Silicon sealant bedding is noted for dampening vibrations pretty well and it can be mechanically strong enough to hold a front end together without requiring reusing the old forend clamping band arrangement (ie cutting on the steel). This seemed very doable to me. ;) of course you ain't taking it apart, ever again, neither ...... |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/10/16 at 11:37:17 Well now, new mount parts came in and got installed ...... side of chin on side of rifle butt works just fine now. You will notice that the tall front sight blade had to come off as the new mount is just that low and just that tight to the barrel ...... ;) ..... this is turning slowly into an A-1 bubba truck gun fer them "the surprise is on you" oinkers and bambi i.e. a rugged short, light and powerful medium distance rifle ..... |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/10/16 at 14:23:51 Heat cured both the loctite on the barrel clamp mount and heat cured the silicon adhesive inside the front end with the same steady application of hot air gun air until the barrel got quite warm. When I had let it all cool down to room temperature, I found that all liquid loctite was now solid and the RTV inside the front end was completely hard cured. So I unwound the rope, oiled & steel wooled the wooden front end to remove the mild rope marks in the varnish and then I bore sighted the new "lowered" red dot installation. It was so close it only took 8 clicks on the vertical (recovering from the too tall installation I suspect) and I was all done. Gun points and finds the dot very naturally now and because it is so short and light it will be a very handy cast bullet carry gun in the woods. I have ordered a carry sling for it, the sling will be here in a few days ..... |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/13/16 at 14:24:01 Slings came in, they are black and padded and they do all the things a sling should do for only $5.95 each from Amazon (free shipping). I sew my slings on now so they can't slip or do strange things in use, having had an old leather sling slip a bit on me due to getting wet and spoiling one particular deer opportunity when I pulled up on it with my elbow and it slipped. I now like them modern waterproof nylon slings just fine, and I double the strapping over and sew it on firmly so it CAN'T slip for good measure. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/13/16 at 15:50:47 ;) And let's not forget the 8x57 Mauser, it needed a sling too. |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Art Webb on 10/14/16 at 07:59:26 5F7C7476757C7C7562100 wrote:
150-200 yards? hunting? in Texas? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D hell freezes over more often |
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Title: Re: Old eyes, pistol and rifle sights Post by Oldfeller on 10/14/16 at 20:42:08 Yeah, in NC you are lucky to see something 60-80 yards away and you need a sighting system that is licky-split fast to get a shot off before it walks out of view. |
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