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Message started by greenmonster on 09/20/16 at 17:59:39

Title: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/20/16 at 17:59:39

Hello All,

I am finally about to start working on my bike again. I have a laundry list of things to fix, but the most important is getting the girl to start. I can bump start but that doesn't help at a stop sign. It does tell me that I don't have a problem with the carb though.
I am not getting anything when I push the start button. I need to run the tests again, but when I put it away I had ruled out the start button as the culprit.
Can someone tell me how to test and eliminate the starter solenoid as the issue?

Thanks in advance!

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by Drestakil on 09/20/16 at 18:08:35

Make sure the battery is good. That would be the first step, especially if it hasn't been started for awhile.

What all have you tried so far?

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/16 at 18:20:46

Pull the clutch safety connector.
when you push the starter button, one of those leads should go to 12V

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/21/16 at 17:00:59

well I found out a couple things and have more symptoms to report.

When I first checked the clutch safety I got nada. Then I flipped the kill switch a couple times since I'm not the only one who has moved my bike around the shop over the last few months I figured maybe somebody has been fiddling with it. (the nerve of some people)

Well low and behold I now have 10.5v at the clutch safety, if I position the kill switch just right. I figured that my battery must be low given that I committed the cardinal sin of putting the bike away and not hooking up the trickle charger this didn't surprise me. So I checked the voltage at the stud on the starter motor. 11.8v. I will have to charge the battery over night and hope that I haven't pooched it. It was only about 3 weeks old when the bike went off line.

Now for the other symptom. When I was checking voltage at the stud there was a very distinctive click happening under my seat.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/21/16 at 17:12:01

And then... I figured here I am in my companies shop... screw it.

I hooked up a known good battery while mine is charging. I got 11.4v at the clutch safety and 12.3v at the starter lug.

still have the clicking under my seat.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/16 at 17:47:00

I'd be getting the seat off and finding out what is clicking.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by Savageman on 09/22/16 at 22:39:37

I bet the solenoid is clicking! Measure the voltage at the starter motor while the button is pressed. Should be close to 12 volts. If it drop to much then the solenoid will chatter. So you may have a bad starter motor or another bad battery. :o

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by Armen on 09/23/16 at 02:40:08

Grab jumper cables and go from the battery (+) to the lug on top of the starter. That should make the starter spin. Then, just for giggles, connect the other jumper cable from the batter (-) terminal to the crankcase.
If you still get zippola, it's time for a starterectomy.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/23/16 at 10:01:42

I've got my plans for later today made for me now.

Also for giggles, how do you go about bench testing your starter motors?

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/16 at 10:20:11

If it won't spin the motor over with cables to a car battery, it's toast. From what I have read I don't think that's it.
I would use an ohm meter and test the kill switch in the run position.
You have reported that the voltages you're finding in various places are less than the voltage across the battery.
I had to go into the kill switch on mine.
It's pretty easy to lose stuff, so, sweep up, finding little parts on a dirty floor is hard. Go slow. Putting a towel down to grab parts and keep them from rolling,bouncing is a good idea.
You can figure out which of the two small wires on the solenoid is ground and stick power to the other one.
That tests the solenoid and starter. I'm just thinking that you've got some dirty ground connections and the kill switch isn't healthy.
You shouldn't have to fiddle with it. Flip it, kill the bike.
Flip it, start the bike.

I would flip it back and forth hard and fast about twenty times and see if it acts different.
IDK if electrical contact cleaner would damage anything, or I would suggest that.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/23/16 at 16:30:59

it spins if you go from a car battery with the ground to the chassis and the hot to the starter lug. But not if you go from the bike ground terminal to the starter lug.
(I had the batteries wired in parallel and just pulled the hot wire off to touch the lug and got nothing)

Could my battery ground strap be the culprit?

And JOG, I have every intention of going over all my switches. Hot wiring is just a faster test to do first! (plus the bonus of sparks!)

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/16 at 17:34:22

637661616A696B6A77706176040 wrote:

You proved the starter. Did it start?
Hooking batteries to the battery doesn't answer a question.

Have you studied the kill switch?

ell low and behold I now have 10.5v at the clutch safety, if I position the kill switch just right.

I repaired copiers and cash registers for seven years.
When I see a clue like that, I check it out.
You can run tests on the starter, and wonder about the battery, but the results of the test that include the kill switch would have me looking at it. If you have to diddle with it, it's not right. You might have another problem, but that switch sure sounds flaky IF the report is accurate.
Just flip the thing back and forth and see if anything changes. Wouldn't that be easier than trying other stuff?
At page seven, I quit.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/23/16 at 17:47:13

I didn't try to get it to start. Just to spin the starter. (Confirming that I don't have to shell out another $100 for one of those is a comfort)
Right now I am working on the kill switch. After flipping it about 20 times it seems to be far more reliable. It operates the way that it should in each position now. I'm going to look for some dielectric grease to put on some of my other connections since I seem to be having more voltage drop in my Clutch Safety than I would expect.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/16 at 17:56:23

Key off
Check resistance across the kill switch.
You PROVED it's got crap in it. It's Different, that doesn't mean it's Good.
Remember, that starter motor isn't meant to work more than a few seconds. Then it needs to cool off.
The battery has to be hot, 12+ , or it will spin over, but not fire the plug.
I suspect bad grounds, because you report less than battery voltage found in several places.
Connections and grounds need checked. The ground on the engine, near the clutch lever is a common hassle.
It can look good, and not be good.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 09/26/16 at 10:42:00

Narrowed this sucker down to a bad engine ground. I can't even find the engine ground. I'm starting to wonder if it got ripped off when I went over something. What points should it be attached to?

I confirmed that it is the lack of ground by putting a ground connection in place on one of the side engine cover and grounding that to the battery. Turned over beautifully. I didn't try to run her as I want to clean the carb first. She has been sitting for about a year.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by verslagen1 on 09/26/16 at 11:25:32

battery is usually grounded to the engine by the neg cable to a bolt on the right side of the case towards the back, just left of the oil level window.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/16 at 12:19:08

Connections and grounds need checked. The ground on the engine, near the clutch lever is a common hassle.
It can look good, and not be good.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by greenmonster on 10/05/16 at 13:53:17

Just a little update.

Turns out it was the wires. I replaced the cables going from the battery to the starter solenoid and to the starter. In addition I added another ground strap from the engine to the frame.

Engine fires up first try every time now.

I also went over all the controls with some di-electric grease and everything is operating properly there too. Including my horn which hasn't worked for about 5 years.

Title: Re: Starter Solenoid
Post by batman on 10/11/16 at 19:17:35

Another ground strap from the motor to the frame may keep your lights shinning bright ,but is not doing anything for your starter,which is your heavy electrical draw.The power to the starter must return from the motor case to the neg. side of the battery(the neg. wire being the same size as the pos. cable you replaced)or you could have future problems,trace the neg. cable back to the right side of the bike and clean it! IT's not rocket science!