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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> $15 per hour /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1474142138 Message started by zipidachimp on 09/17/16 at 12:55:38 |
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Title: $15 per hour Post by zipidachimp on 09/17/16 at 12:55:38 http://cdn.spectator.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/09135341/2016.9.9-Drive-Thru-Robot.jpg cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/16 at 15:24:32 Why people can't see what happens when someone tells an employer what they must pay is beyond me. There won't BE any school kids sacking groceries. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by WebsterMark on 09/18/16 at 04:22:25 6F7076716C6B5A6A5A62707C37050 wrote:
I agree Jog, we had another story in our ultra liberal local paper crying about the need to enact $15 an hour a couple days after story about higher healthcare cost causing employers to cut hours and finally jobs altogether. This morning there was a story about the 5 year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street and how it's legacy is this $15 min wage. So yes, you're right, some people really are that blind: raise min wage beyond small price increases consumers will accept and workers will lose hours worked or their job entirely. Pretty simple. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/19/16 at 19:11:42 All employers should be forced to have some kind of profit sharing built into their wage/salary structure. wages are a lie |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/16 at 19:19:09 Employer Someone who has had an idea. Invested HIS time and Money Risking bankruptcy. And you think he's just swimming in Money? The small business owner goes broke like marriages fail. You open up a business, then decide what EVERY employer should do. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/19/16 at 19:42:06 415E585F42457444744C5E52192B0 wrote:
where did I EVER SAY I THINKG EMPLOYER'S ARE SWIMMING IN MONEY??? you really do read the absolute WORST into my posts don't you?? sounds like extremist thinking to me... and what could be more fair to The EMPLOYER than my suggestion, wages dependent on if they make a profit, part of the reason they made that profit was the WORK their employees did. I think this would make employees more motivated to work better for their employer and it'd make the employer/employee relationship more honest, right now employees have a hell of a time negotiating with their employer, there's pretty much one move "give me a raise or I quit" which actually puts the employee in a pretty desperate scenario there could still be all the other heirarchies and everything else that goes on with the workforce marketplace, but the wage structure would be based on REALITY, instead of a predetermined fiction of minimum wage or "free market" shenanigans. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/16 at 19:55:48 Okay, since you expanded on it. Kinda like a sales clerk at the Red Wing store. They get a paycheck, plus commission. That's incentive. And it's not hurting the employer. So many jobs are impossible to split out who is doing the production and who is coasting. Profit sharing there would be hard. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by WebsterMark on 09/20/16 at 04:15:47 496A76714477716C7671050 wrote:
Forced ? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 05:46:17 right now employees have a hell of a time negotiating with their employer, there's pretty much one move "give me a raise or I quit" which actually puts the employee in a pretty desperate scenario. That's true in a bunch of jobs. In places where each employee actually bills the customer or does jobs that are of known value, like copier and cash register repair, where I could document earnings and bodywork, where the job had a total dollar figure and my hours on it were on my time card, I could show the boss that I was making him enough money to justify a raise. Even then,though, I was forced to threaten to quit one guy. I eventually did quit, after the third time. Yes, I got the raise, but quit anyway. I told him that if he forced me to threaten to quit to get treated right, after he finally did what I had earned, I would quit. And I still went to the shop lake trips and Christmas parties for three years, because I was friends with the guys. I stopped going because of personnel changes. But how can an employee document meritorious and more profitable work if he's flipping burgers? I was able to negotiate better pay, because I understand Business. Employees are generally not aware that the employer pays for their unemployment insurance and half of the social security, and the labor and delivery resultant earnings of the employees is the source of That money. Someone has to earn the money for the electric bill, phone bill, pay for the Secretary, the accountant, insurance on the building, and contents, and the boss's paycheck. It's not a sweet, kind world. And governmental regulations and taxes are not making it easier for the employer, which means that the employees are more heavily burdened. Step one, slash corporate income taxes, they are only Paid by the customers and employees. Without customers and employees, no corporation generates a dollar, so where are the tax dollars coming from? We would have more jobs if we didn't cut the throats of the entrepreneurs. How many people Would open up a small enterprise IF they weren't going to be immediately bankrupted by a government Telling them that they would Have to pay employees more than they can afford? Why not let people decide if they want to work at a job and accept what the owner can afford to pay? They Could contract with him and agree to accept a low wage, help him get it going, then get paid for building the business up. People seem to think a business owner is making tons of money. Some are, and are greedy. Some aren't, and go broke. And some are making good money and pay their people well. Henry Ford was the right guy to work for. My dad believed in paying his people well. Turnover is expensive and morale is good, |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Paraquat on 09/20/16 at 06:08:37 I have to agree with LA on this one. I'm in that situation now. When my town raised its taxes I was operating my household at a loss. The guy before me got a nasty reputation for threatening to leave if he didn't get a raise. I don't want that reputation, but I feel I'm not acknowledged for my accomplishments. I don't know what the correction is. I do know that artificially inflating wages isn't the solution. --Steve |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 07:00:52 Hunting a job in Louisiana. Me and my buddy stopped at a place that ran barge cranes. I thought that would be cool. But, as I passed the Help Wanted sign I noticed that it was welded on that post. I stopped and turned around. My friend was confused, but I explained it. If they are always hiring they are either killing, injuring, firing or people are quitting. I don't want anything to do with it. If the guy before you was threatening to quit, and you feel like your best efforts aren't appreciated, maybe you work for a jerk, or maybe the company isn't as profitable as you think. If your job allows you to show how much you make for the company, then you have a bargaining chip. The sad fact of life in America today is, unless people have a real skill, they are easily replaced. A market is a market. Labor is a commodity. I can't imagine having no skills to sell. The kinds of people who I've seen on this forum has been a real surprise. Some very educated, talented, able people find this place. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by WebsterMark on 09/20/16 at 08:20:39 6352415242465247330 wrote:
Steve; you're a free agent. Go find someone else to work for that pays you what you're worth. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Paraquat on 09/20/16 at 09:09:50 That's part of the problem, Web. Everyone flinches when I name my price, which doesn't even meet the state average for what I'm capable of (I did the research before reaching out too far). I throw feelers out here and again, but everyone gets cold feet during price negotiations. --Steve |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 09:11:13 What do you do? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Paraquat on 09/20/16 at 11:11:06 Head of the milling department in an aerospace manufacturing machine shop. Two AS and currently enrolled in a Bachelor's program for Mechanical Engineering with an Aerospace background and a minor in Mathematics. Which is odd. You'd think, according to the news, that manufacturing is more competitive in Connecticut. --Steve |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 11:18:52 Seems like with that kinda skill set Someone would be hunting for you. Are you willing to move? Heck, maybe the real employer for you has been driven overseas or out of business. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/20/16 at 11:55:58 7754484F7A494F52484F3B0 wrote:
Want a, ’share in the Profits’, Then you are most willing to, Be, "Responsible', for the shortfalls. RIGHT ? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/20/16 at 12:01:00 0625393E0B383E23393E4A0 wrote:
'forced', to pay as a employee to a ‘government’ fund. 'forced', to pay as a employer, to a ‘Government’ fund. A Fund that is, routinely ROBBED From. A Fund that, is Routinely used to PAY, people who Never, NEVER, paid into it. And Now, people are calling that, Fund, a, Entitlement !!!!!!! 'forced', , That is Pure, B.S. (Bernie Sanders) |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 12:47:10 41625F7C7E65626B0C0 wrote:
Want a, ’share in the Profits’, Then you are most willing to, Be, "Responsible', for the shortfalls. RIGHT ? [/quote] Profit sharing is an incentive. The business is either able to absorb some shortfalls or it isn't. Employees have bought out owners and Boy oh Boy, that is incentive. But, if government regulations and taxes, fees, and don't forget about the Cost of maintaining records to prove compliance, Anyway, Employees aren't expected to pay the company. Unlike CEOs of companies that They destroyed, they have no golden parachute. They get that Brown Destitute. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/20/16 at 16:57:23 172522333425320D21322B400 wrote:
Forced ? [/quote] well, employers are forced to pay employees, slavery is outlawed right? so instead of a minimum wage being forced upon the employers, they should instead set up some kinda percentage system of profit sharing, I haven't thought out all the details, but it could be like 1.5% (or something, could even be crazy like 0.05%, idk, probably need a highly detailed mathematical study of what's worth what depending on the value of the employee to the company, like a cashier worth more than a bagger or something) of profits + some salary/wage that can be negotiated or something. something to tie the success of the employee to the success of the employer, right now the minimum wage has been the ONLY stagnate cost employers have, everything else has gone UP due to inflation. just an idea |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Paraquat on 09/21/16 at 06:01:36 706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:
That's a downside. I have a few ties keeping me in this state. If you want to get into PM we can discuss but I don't like throwing specifics on the WWW. --Steve |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/16 at 06:34:25 Reasonable enough.. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Paraquat on 09/21/16 at 11:14:28 Sent you a PM, JoG. --Steve |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/21/16 at 12:23:33 14372B2C192A2C312B2C580 wrote:
Sounds good, on Paper. Exactly the same way, A total, Communistic, society/community, sounds good on, ON PAPER. But in Real Life, They DON"T WORK ! Here ya go, ya get 15.00 hr, at the end of the quarter, the company announced a Profit. You get to share, So Next quarter, you get a wage of, 15.50 hr. WOW, your, happy. You did nothing 'extra', and you get paid MORE. Now, next quarter, company, announces a profit again, (Not as much as the 1st quarter), but still a profit. Now you get, 15.65 hr. (Etc Etc Etc) After a year or more. Employees of the company, are so used to, getting a raise, on the backs of, the employed, who WORK harder. And the employees, who are LAZY, STILL get the SAME raise !!!!!! (I Know you have read; 'The Little Red Hen", read it again) Employee Owned Companies, Do work, And the LAZY ones are removed on a Regular basis. Hourly + COMMISSION, (where it works), Also works Well. A, FORCED Raise, whether it be by a legislated min hour rate, or a Forced, Profit Sharing. Does NOT work. You see what happened, with the FORCED, Min Rate. (Screw the Human, build a robot) Forced, Profit Sharing, will be just a higher, wage of many of the very upper, in the company, so the company, has very LITTLE profit, to pass along. Very Similar to the, schools, 'TAX', raise. (Campaigned with a schools Money, your Tax Dollars) and the slogan, 'The Kids Need Pencils. (or like). Yet the Next year, ALL, the TOP, got a RAISE, AND, A NEW, Secretary, (or two), are hired, to be the, Secretary, of the Principals, Secretary, who has a Secretary. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/21/16 at 17:30:25 0E2D1033312A2D24430 wrote:
Sounds good, on Paper. Exactly the same way, A total, Communistic, society/community, sounds good on, ON PAPER. But in Real Life, They DON"T WORK ! Here ya go, ya get 15.00 hr, at the end of the quarter, the company announced a Profit. You get to share, So Next quarter, you get a wage of, 15.50 hr. WOW, your, happy. You did nothing 'extra', and you get paid MORE. Now, next quarter, company, announces a profit again, (Not as much as the 1st quarter), but still a profit. Now you get, 15.65 hr. (Etc Etc Etc) After a year or more. Employees of the company, are so used to, getting a raise, on the backs of, the employed, who WORK harder. And the employees, who are LAZY, STILL get the SAME raise !!!!!! (I Know you have read; 'The Little Red Hen", read it again) Employee Owned Companies, Do work, And the LAZY ones are removed on a Regular basis. Hourly + COMMISSION, (where it works), Also works Well. A, FORCED Raise, whether it be by a legislated min hour rate, or a Forced, Profit Sharing. Does NOT work. You see what happened, with the FORCED, Min Rate. (Screw the Human, build a robot) Forced, Profit Sharing, will be just a higher, wage of many of the very upper, in the company, so the company, has very LITTLE profit, to pass along. Very Similar to the, schools, 'TAX', raise. (Campaigned with a schools Money, your Tax Dollars) and the slogan, 'The Kids Need Pencils. (or like). Yet the Next year, ALL, the TOP, got a RAISE, AND, A NEW, Secretary, (or two), are hired, to be the, Secretary, of the Principals, Secretary, who has a Secretary. [/quote] hmmm, yeah, maybe, but maybe not, there might need to be some kinda production standard and goals or something set up, notice I never said EVERYONE GOT THE SAME Percentage, I think the employer still has a right to judge the value of each individual employee, but this would give the employee a feeling of how the company is doing and if there hard work actually makes a difference, it might not work in every industry, idk, I think better minds would have to figure out all the intricate details. idk maybe their should be a very low base percentage every employee gets though. the profit sharing would be part of your wage, from day one, and YOU DID DO SOMETHING EXTRA, if the company made more money EVERYONE in the company helped make that happen. or there could be some kinda production standard set up or something. and each INDIVIDUAL would be able to negotiate on a basis of real value to the company instead of just guessing again, better minds would have to think it all out, what I'm kinda looking for is a base + commission for NON SALES personnel something where work is VALUED again, instead of JUST considered another cost of doing business |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/21/16 at 18:19:51 0724383F0A393F22383F4B0 wrote:
Well, I used to have some Ocean front lots in AZ, but I think, Bot, bought them all. I'll give you first chance at some I found in New Mexico. OH, I have a line on some land lots, that are just a little South & West, of Malibu Calf. Wold those interest you also? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by Dagillespi on 09/22/16 at 17:41:49 Profit sharing is great but what about all the federal state and local jobs operating without a profit. Cops, corrections, forestry, military. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/23/16 at 19:51:03 092A1734362D2A23440 wrote:
Well, I used to have some Ocean front lots in AZ, but I think, Bot, bought them all. I'll give you first chance at some I found in New Mexico. OH, I have a line on some land lots, that are just a little South & West, of Malibu Calf. Wold those interest you also? [/quote] you really are an a-hole huh? well, now I know who NOT to listen to you seem like you'd rather be abused as a wage earner instead of valued. |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/23/16 at 19:52:05 1237313F3A3A3325263F560 wrote:
awww, good point, but they usually get a cost of living increase yearly, so maybe something like that for them? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/27/16 at 18:33:05 4F6C70774271776A7077030 wrote:
Interesting Statement above. When I work Hard, I get Paid. When I work Medium, I don't get paid. When I work Sorely, it COST ME MONEY. UN, like the 15.00 hour, workers, who work, Hard, at NOT working, But STILL get Paid !!!!!! (Working or not, they STILL get Paid) Example: In a store, Finally track down someone with a 'smock'. Me: "Excuse me, do you have this item in XLT" Him: "Well, um, don't know, um, ah, a'l um ys know check" 15 min later, see that same person, (Just walking about) and ask: "Did you find out if you have the size I want" Him: "well, um, that be Joe, he um does um this section, ah, Joe will know". then before he walks off. I say: "Where can I Find Joe" Him: "Well um, ah, Joe, he ain't working today". Next store, 3 stores away, in a mall, in a 10-15,000 town. (To a sales lady who was readily available) Me: " Excuse me, do you have this in a XLT" She: " I'll check the back room, and get right back to you" (5 Min later) she comes out with that thing and said: "Is this what you are looking for, you can try it on, dressing rooms are right over their" SAME THING, and 2.00 CHEAPER !!!!!! Yep, that, forced, $15.00 a hour, for a WORTHLESS PO S, sure is working well !!!!!! I am sure the young lady, makes 15+ a hour, and she WORKS for it. She Does Her Job. But Some people, want to, FORCE, a Wage, (whether or not people, Earn It), and then ALSO Force, a Profit Sharing. Simple Solution. FIRE the people, that stand around and scratch their azz. and, Reward, the People, that WORK. OH, but wait, "Hillery, and her like, say PAY the people" (Whether they work or not) So many, 'learn', they can stand around all day, and scratch their Azz, and get PAID. And THOSE, people want a, 'share' of the Profits ! Yea, Right ! |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by LostArtist on 09/28/16 at 10:53:16 5774496A6873747D1A0 wrote:
Interesting Statement above. When I work Hard, I get Paid. When I work Medium, I don't get paid. When I work Sorely, it COST ME MONEY. UN, like the 15.00 hour, workers, who work, Hard, at NOT working, But STILL get Paid !!!!!! (Working or not, they STILL get Paid) Example: In a store, Finally track down someone with a 'smock'. Me: "Excuse me, do you have this item in XLT" Him: "Well, um, don't know, um, ah, a'l um ys know check" 15 min later, see that same person, (Just walking about) and ask: "Did you find out if you have the size I want" Him: "well, um, that be Joe, he um does um this section, ah, Joe will know". then before he walks off. I say: "Where can I Find Joe" Him: "Well um, ah, Joe, he ain't working today". Next store, 3 stores away, in a mall, in a 10-15,000 town. (To a sales lady who was readily available) Me: " Excuse me, do you have this in a XLT" She: " I'll check the back room, and get right back to you" (5 Min later) she comes out with that thing and said: "Is this what you are looking for, you can try it on, dressing rooms are right over their" SAME THING, and 2.00 CHEAPER !!!!!! Yep, that, forced, $15.00 a hour, for a WORTHLESS PO S, sure is working well !!!!!! I am sure the young lady, makes 15+ a hour, and she WORKS for it. She Does Her Job. But Some people, want to, FORCE, a Wage, (whether or not people, Earn It), and then ALSO Force, a Profit Sharing. Simple Solution. FIRE the people, that stand around and scratch their azz. and, Reward, the People, that WORK. OH, but wait, "Hillery, and her like, say PAY the people" (Whether they work or not) So many, 'learn', they can stand around all day, and scratch their Azz, and get PAID. And THOSE, people want a, 'share' of the Profits ! Yea, Right ! [/quote] look back through this thread, did I EVER SAY $15 an hour??? my goal is the same as your, to PAY PEOPLE WHO WORK WHAT THEY ARE WORTH, not some abstract idea by a CEO of what they are worth, not some abstract government idea of what they are worth, but actually LINKING THEIR EARNINGS TO THE COMPANY'S EARNINGS. much like Trump not paying taxes, I don't set the rules, but if I didn't use them to MY FULLEST ADVANTAGE, would that be stupid or smart? |
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Title: Re: $15 per hour Post by MnSpring on 09/28/16 at 16:50:09 5774686F5A696F72686F1B0 wrote:
No, you did NOT say $15.00 a hour. I Did, Gee, because it the title of this thread ????? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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