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Message started by kuri77 on 09/11/16 at 17:10:02

Title: leaking head gasket fix
Post by kuri77 on 09/11/16 at 17:10:02

Thought it was that infamous plug but not. Turns out head on right side forward is warped a little. Used a machinists straight edge and can slip a feeler gauge in along a one inch section where won't go at all on the rest of the straight edge. Plus it's discolored there on the head and cylinder. Fortunately cylinder is straight so need to mill off a few thousandths on head I guess.
Couple of questions - can I double nut the studs and take them out, they appear to be threaded in or can the machinist work around them? any problems likely if I do remove them?
What is the max I could remove safely in order to make sure warpage is gone and compression doesn't rise enough to be a problem?
Lastly if anyone knows a machinist they would trust with this in the So Cal area I'd like his number please.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/16 at 17:26:36

Take the head, head cover, and cylinder to a machine shop.
Point out the problem and express your concerns.

IDK if you should replace the rings if you pull the jug. I probably would unless someone told me I didn't have to.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by kuri77 on 09/11/16 at 18:14:55

Thanks for the reply. Why would I need to take the cylinder if it's not warped?

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/16 at 18:18:15

Ask the machinist if he needs it. That would keep you from needing to change the rings, if you don't move the cylinder.

I don't know what is warped Or washed. High pressure stuff can do things.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by Armen on 09/11/16 at 19:08:02

I got the studs out of mine by double-nutting them. Heating the head helps.
The bikes are pretty low compression. If I had to guess, the squish band is prob pretty large.
If I was working on it?
Figure out what the squish clearance is. Considering the high compression pistons being sold for these sleds, I'd be more concerned with squish clearance than compression.
I usually lay a piece of thick, soft solder (long enough to make it all the way across the piston crown) across the top of the piston, reassemble the motor with the used head gasket, and rotate the crank with a socket. The piston with flatten the solder. It doesn't hurt to do it twice-in line with the crank, and 90 degrees to the crank.
Pull the head again, and measure the thickness of the solder where it was flattened at the edges. This is squish clearance.
Less is good up to a point.
The guys who have done a lot of these prob have a happy number in mind.
If I had to guess, it'd be in the .035" range.
So, you can wipe off the bottom of the head and the top of the cylinder until you make the squish band too tight. With crank flex and rod stretch, the piston can hit the underside of the head.
Doing this will retard the cam timing a bit, but considering how most of the Savages seem to be running around with clapped out cam chains, it can't be that big a deal.
Considering how far along you are, it seems like false economy not to pull the jug. Decarbonize the piston, measure the piston to cylinder clearance (something got hot enough for some reason to warp the head).
Wipe a little of the top of the jug for good luck.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/16 at 19:25:32

CL@apped out com chains, im insluted

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by SavageMan99 on 09/12/16 at 07:51:36

You need a true straight edge. Get your machinist to loan you one and look for gaps that let light through. Saves you a lot of bother.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/16 at 08:58:32

Just go to the machine shop supply and get a Starrett ruler. I have on I've had for 35years. Looks almost like when I got it. They are hardened. I didn't know that until I decided to poke a hole in it to hang it by. It's got a shiny dent, but no hole.

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by Dave on 09/12/16 at 09:15:55

3A252324393E0F3F0F37252962500 wrote:

Ask the machinist if he needs it. That would keep you from needing to change the rings, if you don't move the cylinder.

I don't see any reason to replace rings just because you removed the cylinder and reinstalled it. I have never heard of it causing any problems......the rings was in that cylinder to start with, and rings move around in the grooves when the engine is running.....so I don't see why it would change anything to remove the cylinder and then put it back on. (I would however clean the loose carbon off the top of the piston before you remove the cylinder).

However......when you have something that far apart - it would be prudent to at least pull the top ring off and put it in the cylinder and check to see how much it is worn.

And....I wouldn't remove any more of the head than you have to, as it will also have the effect of retarding the cam timing when you make the head shorter. There is a fellow that makes 1 piece copper head gaskets for the Savage - he could probably make you one that is thicker to compensate for the material you machine off. (gasketman@cox.net)

Title: Re: leaking head gasket fix
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/16 at 11:50:28