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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Losing power at deceleration & idle /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1473629176 Message started by SarDeen on 09/11/16 at 14:26:15 |
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Title: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by SarDeen on 09/11/16 at 14:26:15 Hi All! First time poster, long time lurker. I have an issue that likely has been addressed on the board somewhere, but I've been poking around and can't find exactly what I'm looking for. If someone can point me in the right direction that would be GREAT. My bike is killing when I decelerate. The bike will idle when I start it up, but once the bike is warmed up and I've driven a couple blocks, the bike dies at the stop sign. I can get it to start back up if I give it a lot of gas, but it will continue to kill at every stop sign on the way home. If I give it gas in neutral, or with the clutch in when I come to every stop light, I can make it home. I've played around with the idle and turned it up all the way, with no help. The bike recently flooded pretty bad and leaked gas out the air box. I figure it was a stuck carb, so I cleaned that. Now with the carb back in, I'm facing this new idle problem. I don't know what causes the flood. It was parked at my campsite and I noticed gas dripping out the airbox (no, the petcock wasn't turned off, yeah I know...) I trailered the bike home and started to troubleshoot. I'm not sure the flood and the idle issues are connected, but my guess is that they are? I'm a novice at working on my bike, but my boyfriend is in small engines school and works on bikes/has all the tools. He's been working hard on diagnosing, but he's at a loss. He rides old Hondas ;) My bike: 2001, 10k miles, I've had it for 4 years as the second owner. It is stock most everything except: Work done before issues arose:
Work done recently in an attempt to solve issue:
Again if this has been addressed somewhere, please feel free to point me in the right direction and shame me for not doing my research! Thanks- Sar |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by verslagen1 on 09/11/16 at 14:47:48 685A497F5E5E553B0 wrote:
Welcome... lurker ;D Flood and idle issues can be connected, but might not be as one is from the engine running and the other not. What jets are you running? Does this happen when choked? Does it still flood when not running and the petcock on? And did you replace the air filter after it got wet? |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by gizzo on 09/11/16 at 17:23:19 Hi Sar. Welcome aboard. You know how the needle and seat opens and shuts via the float to regulate the fuel level in the float bowl? Well, the seat is a brass piece (the needle fits inside it) that plugs into the alloy carb body. The seat is sealed around it's outside by an o ring. If the o ring is damaged, fuel can leak around the outside of the brass seat instead of flowing through it. If this happens, the needle and float can't control the amount of fuel filling the bowl. When you're rocking down the highway, the engine uses enough fuel to keep up with the leak but at idle the leak can become too much for the engine to use, so the bowl overflows and the engine floods at idle. Try this test: Once the bike is running down the highway, before you come to a stop, turn the fuel off (try this somewhere safe). If the engine keeps running nicely with the fuel off, it might indicate this problem. The engine will quit when the bowl runs dry so don't forget to turn the fuel back on. It's a long shot but is something I've come across a few times on bike carbs. I see you've replaced the needle and seat but thought it worth a mention. Check the float bowl vent is not blocked, as well. It's a loose hose that goes nowhere. It's open to atmosphere and lets the air out when the fuel comes in. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by Yoshi on 09/11/16 at 17:31:43 Did you get a genuine raptor petcock? Why did you add a fuel filter? GET RID OF IT ASAP! |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by verslagen1 on 09/11/16 at 18:13:25 01100138343A3023223A38510 wrote:
The fuel filter is not causing the flooding issue. But potentially it can vapor lock, or restrict fuel flow at WFO. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/16 at 18:21:59 Id remove the air filter and see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by batman on 09/11/16 at 19:42:17 You've checked the float level but did you check the float valve and seat,also there is a screen filter under the float valve seat that could be plugged .If your petcock was open and the carb flooded it had to be the float valve not being seated....."replaced carb needle and seat" the needle and main jet? why? did you remember to put the washer in between the needle jet and the main jet? need more info!....did you clean the TEV valve and passages?It sends extra fuel to the carb when you close the throttle. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by SarDeen on 09/12/16 at 12:04:56 Hi All! Thanks for all the feedback. It is great to see a community so enthusiastic. Ok I'll address some of your questions. I realize I wasn't so clear in my original post. The bike is not flooding currently. It only happened once last month on my 900 mile camping trip. It was parked at a campsite and saw it was spilling out gasoline and got it on a trailer home. Once it was back home I took the carb out, assuming it caused the flooding into the airbox. We cleaned it and replaced the needle, seat, O Ring. That seemed to do the trick. HOWEVER, now after getting the bike back together, it is having this issue of losing power at deceleration. This was not an issue before the "big flood". I just rode 900 miles around Northern Minnesota with a nice running bike. To answer someone's questions: The jets are the same size jets that came with the bike, I don't know the # at the moment. I also replaced the air filter because it was all full of gas, so that is new. The stumper in all this is that it idles OK when it is cold at initial start-up. It only is an issue after it gets warmed up. So far I've been able to restart the bike at every stop sign. When I go through all my gears getting up to highway speed the bike runs as normal. It is only when I'm slowing down to 2nd or 1st does to bike putter out. I will try out the suggestion of removing the air filter to see if I maintain power. I'm also finding this thread helpful. I'll do some more homework and report back. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277 Also to reiterate: My carburetor is no longer leaking gas! That issue has been resolved. Just losing power at low speeds. Thanks again all! I'll report back soon. -Sar |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by SarDeen on 09/12/16 at 12:06:43 Yes it is a genuine Raptor petcock. I'm not super convinced of getting rid of the fuel filter. I've had one since I got the bike, and it hasn't given me trouble. 41504178747A7063627A78110 wrote:
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by SarDeen on 09/12/16 at 12:22:02
4D5E4948575A5C5E550A3B0 wrote: Welcome... lurker ;D Flood and idle issues can be connected, but might not be as one is from the engine running and the other not. What jets are you running? Does this happen when choked? Does it still flood when not running and the petcock on? And did you replace the air filter after it got wet? |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/16 at 12:37:02 It sounds to me like you've put back the carb with something wrong. You got a raptor petcock [smiley=thumbsup.gif] check that you've plugged the vac port on the carb. In the tech section, there's a post called 'carb specs' The vent lines should be open and stuck up into the frame above the carb. Have you removed the idle mixture screw plug? or was it done for you? |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by batman on 09/12/16 at 14:32:30 Also the TEV valve ,is just to the rear of the idle screw ,it is a rubber diaphragm and spring that opens under high vacuum (vacuum goes up when the throttle closes) an supplies extra fuel to the idle circuit to keep it from falling (stalling from a to lean condition,when you stop) sometimes the passages (very small) can be plugged and need to be cleaned or the diaphragm may have a small pin hole leak.It's behind the round cover held on by three small screws.....gas filter is something that has caused problems in the past ,it can become air bound and cause supply problems,you should remove it and replace with new line if your bike is older ,you never told us year or mileage! |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by ohiomoto on 09/12/16 at 18:06:26 Not a fan of inline filters. Can cause issues and anything small enough to pass through the petcock filter will burn up in the combustion chamber. To be it's like buying life insurance on a dead man. Worthless. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/16 at 18:17:46 Eliminate variables. It's not necessary to have that filter. You Added it. It's acting bad. Ditch the filter. Might change nothing, but it might be the whole problem. The carb is the same from start till not idling. I'm not thinking carb. The filter is sitting and not holding fuel back. You're running the bowl down. Betchya. Run it till it starts acting up. Shut the petcock off. Not reserve, Flip the kill. Open the carb bowl drain. Catch the gas. |
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Title: Re: Losing power at deceleration & idle Post by SarDeen on 09/13/16 at 20:23:26 Hey everybody, so I think I got it all figured out. I re-did the idle drop procedure and the bike seems to be running correct again. It seems like the air/fuel mixture screw was turned out too much and the bike was running rich. Makes sense once the bike warmed up it would bog down when returning to idle. I just got back from a longer ride and had no issues :) The screw was turned way out to compensate for my dirty air filter, and when I put the carb back together I just put it back to the position it was in before, without giving it much thought. Lesson Learned! I'm still new to messing around with carburetors and there's a lot going on in there so I try to keep it simple by not deviating. But with my nice new air filter the screw needed to be adjusted. Newbie error, but good lesson learned. Thanks again guys! Now off to finish the last 300 miles of my camping trip.... 574453524D4046444F10210 wrote:
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