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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1471623880 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/16 at 09:24:40 |
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Title: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/16 at 09:24:40 “In basic English, you’re saying that you wouldn’t give them the $400 million in cash until the prisoners were released, correct?” AP reporter Brad Klapper asked Kirby. “That’s correct,” Kirby answered. The Obama government has repeatedly claimed that the money was part of a settlement over a failed arms deal from 1979, and was not a ‘ransom’ payment. Klapper continued the line of questioning, leading Kirby to make remarkable accusations against the press. “Listen, this happened in January, and this is the first time you’ve ever said flat out that they [Iran] wouldn’t get the money until the prisoners were released,” Klapper said. http://freebeacon.com/national-security/state-dept-says-prisoners-release-needed-cash-payment-iran/ Of course, if you Want more, it's available. Infowars |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by LostArtist on 08/19/16 at 14:06:16 ok, let's say I legitimately owe you money, you took me to small claims court and the judge says I owe you money, I don't pay, not for DECADES, we aren't friends, let's say you're an @sshole (JOG, you aren't but for sake of argument) you take my motorcycle just because you are an @sshole, then finally, I get some money to make a down payment, not even the whole thing, but before I pay it, I tell you to give my motorcycle back. Was that money ransom for my motorcycle? (the money I already owed you, BEFORE you even knew I had a motorcycle) |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/16 at 14:30:46 Let's say you are honest. Read what they admitted. Own it. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by pg on 08/19/16 at 18:23:40 27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:
[smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by LostArtist on 08/21/16 at 06:43:41 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
how about answering the question? |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by Serowbot on 08/21/16 at 08:40:24 I think it was more of a "tit for tat"... We'll give back what's yours,... if you give back what's ours... The money was not, "payment"... because it was their money... |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/21/16 at 08:41:26 The$$ was returned in exchange for people. It's Ransom, regardless of WHO owned the money in the first place. If you took my bike and wouldn't return it, I might kidnap your dog. You would have to Ransom your dog by returning my bike. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by Serowbot on 08/21/16 at 08:52:39 Semantics... just depends on which side of the fence you're on... I see your point,... ...you probably see mine... ...but, it is what it is... not clearly one or the other. Not enough to make an issue. Try as some might... |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/21/16 at 10:42:15 ran·som [ch712]rans[ch601]m/Submit noun 1. a sum of money or other payment demanded or paid for the release of a prisoner. synonyms: payoff, payment, sum, price "they demanded a huge ransom" verb 1. obtain the release of (a prisoner) by making a payment demanded. "the lord was captured in war and had to be ransomed Demands FOR the return of What is being held . Ransom. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by oldNslow on 08/23/16 at 18:25:31 514E484F52556454645C4E42093B0 wrote:
The State Dept has just issued a warning for US citizens traveling to Iran, based on information that the Iranian government will "detain" US citizens whenever possible on "suspicion" of illegal activity. Suprise! Suprise! Couldn't have possibly seen that coming :o |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/23/16 at 18:38:45 I think it was more a case of them reiterating the warning they gave back in March. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by oldNslow on 08/23/16 at 18:56:51 Just a timely reminder then. "Heads up folks! We just gave the Iranians another reason to accuse you of being a spy and to toss your a** in jail. Sorry about that ! Guess we didn't think through the possible ramifications of bailing out them other guys. Oops!" :( |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/23/16 at 20:23:56 Timely? The State Dept has been giving warnings about travel in/to Iran for years.... Tbh, I'm more interested in the 'debt/bike' situation as described by LostArtist. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/16 at 23:11:39 Hovis , that's the biggest Weasels rule Post you ever did. Literally left me with a visceral feeling of disgust. So, it's Okay to chum the water, as long as you Told the swimmers ther might be sharks. The cheapness o f the thinking that Allowed you to say that is just astonishing. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by WebsterMark on 08/24/16 at 05:47:46 ok, let's say I legitimately owe you money, you took me to small claims court and the judge says I owe you money, I don't pay, not for DECADES, we aren't friends, let's say you're an @sshole (JOG, you aren't but for sake of argument) you take my motorcycle just because you are an @sshole, then finally, I get some money to make a down payment, not even the whole thing, but before I pay it, I tell you to give my motorcycle back. Was that money ransom for my motorcycle? (the money I already owed you, BEFORE you even knew I had a motorcycle) I read this before and intended to comment but got busy. First off; I don't believe a US President should have given Iran anything other than the middle finger. If some 'world court' decided we owed them money back for a weapons deal, I would have said sure, fine here's your money minus $xxx amount for the survivors of every hostage you took. Oh gee, that comes up to exactly 400 million. Sorry guys... But that's another topic.... Lost analogy is wrong. Stealing a bike is a crime in and of itself. Kidnapping people is a crime in and of itself. And yes, paying the money to get your bike back is ransom. If he didn't have the bike, you wouldn't have paid. Your motivation to pay is to get your property back, lacking that, you wouldn't have paid. Also, not that the dictionary is the final arbitrator of definitions because words take on different meanings based on the situation, the word ransom is associated with the return of prisoners. Those 4 were not free to leave on their own so they were in fact, prisoners. Now, you could say paying property taxes is paying ransom because if you don't they'll take your house. I would say yes, paying taxes is a form of ransom. Unfortunately, we'll find out soon enough if this was 'ransom'. If it was, they'll do the same technique again. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by Paraquat on 08/24/16 at 06:14:24 714F4E42504C4D230 wrote:
Why should we have to follow their laws in their country? --Steve |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by oldNslow on 08/24/16 at 09:01:35 58697A69797D697C080 wrote:
Why should we have to follow their laws in their country? --Steve[/quote] Not sure if you are being sarcastic or serious. If you're serious your comment makes no sense. Most of the US citizens who were, or are, jailed there didn't break anybody's law. They were picked up for political reasons. I know it happened a long time ago but do you recall the 52 folks who spent 444 days locked up in our own embassy. "Which Iranian laws did they break? Some of the young Iranian "revolutionaries" involved in that kerfuffle are now helping to run the country. Some sh*t doesn't change. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/24/16 at 13:45:05 JoG: "The cheapness o f the thinking that Allowed you to say that is just astonishing. " So you're not challenging the points made, but tell us of the disgust you feel, then go on to insults. I won't tell you of the Iranians I stayed with on my travels, it might be a shock to you. I was pointing out that your Govt has given constant warnings of travel to Iran for the last X-years. This was to question the post by OnS which commented on the timing of these warnings: "Suprise! Suprise! Couldn't have possibly seen that coming" It's been there for years already. PS. I've travelled and lived in the Middle East, my thinking comes from my experience. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by LostArtist on 08/24/16 at 18:35:43 716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:
back to insulting others instead of answering questions huh? |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by raydawg on 08/24/16 at 19:01:07 54776B6C596A6C716B6C180 wrote:
back to insulting others instead of answering questions huh? [/quote] Huh..... Gee, that sounds like an insult. Hey, I put up a few post, you want to respond to them? Try the "WLM" show Jog how to give a constructive answer. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by pg on 08/24/16 at 19:01:18 0C2B322D371436213728213D440 wrote:
So tell us about your experiences in the middle east, where did you live and for how long? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by raydawg on 08/24/16 at 19:07:01 7A6D6B6768780A0 wrote:
So tell us about your experiences in the middle east, where did you live and for how long? Best regards,[/quote] I visited my extended family in Southern California recently. They are mostly Hispanic. I shared how funny it was that some of them are voting for Trump... They voted for Obama last time. From watching the news, all of them Mexicans are suppose to be against Trump..... Or so I thought. Hovis and Bot chided me with retorting that doesn't mean squat, because it doesn't represent those Mexicans they know.... Go figger ;D |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by pg on 08/24/16 at 19:16:36 23302835302636510 wrote:
Quite the colorful background you have along the Native American ancestry. My end is more on the bland side, just us hard-nosed pollacks. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by LostArtist on 08/24/16 at 19:34:34 1B2A392A3A3E2A3F4B0 wrote:
Why should we have to follow their laws in their country? --Steve[/quote] because we said we would?? well, we actually said we'd follow the verdict of a world court based in The Hague here's the New York Times describing history, if you want to believe it or not, that's you http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/opinion/the-fake-400-million-iran-ransom-story.html?_r=0 "the money was part of a separate negotiation over funds the United States has owed Iran since its 1979 Islamic Revolution. At that time, Washington froze Iranian assets in the United States, including money paid by Tehran for military hardware that the United States never delivered after its ally there, the shah, was overthrown. In 1981, the two countries agreed that a tribunal at The Hague would adjudicate the legal claims. Sign Up for the Opinion Today Newsletter Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, The Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world. The United States and Iran have wrestled with this issue for decades, but efforts to reach a settlement intensified once the two sides began work on the nuclear deal. Tribunal decisions are binding, and the administration concluded it would lose at The Hague; in addition to $400 million, Iran was seeking billions of dollars in accumulated interest." either way, what does this matter, Neither Clinton nor Trump have ANYTHING to do with this deal. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by raydawg on 08/24/16 at 19:40:14 687F79757A6A180 wrote:
Quite the colorful background you have along the Native American ancestry. My end is more on the bland side, just us hard-nosed pollacks. Best regards, [/quote] Yes, both my brother and I married Hispanic women. My daughter married a Hispanic man. I tease them ALL when we go to a rosary when one of the older members pass. I don't care if I ever hear another "HELL MARY" in my life, not sure why these Catholics are so pissed at her anyway.... But, talk about a family gathering, it brings ALL of them out. Drinking beer in their lowriders in the parking lot, and all.... I tell them the crime rate drops in town when one of the old folks die! ;D They call me Don Loco Gringo ;) |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/24/16 at 21:09:34 Ray: "Hovis and Bot chided me with retorting that doesn't mean squat," Are you comparing visiting relatives in SoCal from maybe Washington state, to spending months in a different continent with a different religion, different language, working for the locals, learning a bit of their religion, based in the very 'heartland' that you guys call the 'Holy Land' ? Ray, to be honest, I don't think you get 'proportional samples'... PS. @pg. PM me ;) |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/16 at 21:36:21 Anyone who didn't understand the point about Chumming the water? Really? We made the likelihood GREATER .. Nothing quite like teaching them how to get money. Why do you Think POLICY has been Never deal with anyone who is holding hostages. Why did it take so long back when they took the embassy? Does anyone else know Why they took the embassy? It was retribution for something we did. I've been around Iranians. They were going to Odessa College when I was, during the Iranian crisis. During that time they referred to themselves as Persian. There were a bunch of them in Biloxi when I was stationed there We were Trying to train them to fly. To say that they weren't exactly natural at it would be very kind. Your association with a few Iranians is as meaningful as mine. The people who you met Weren't the ones who are In the news. |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/24/16 at 22:00:44 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Embassy_siege "The people who you met Weren't the ones who are In the news. " The people that the News told you about from 5000 miles away is more accurate? Believe the News on US TV, or go there and live in the region..... And Jog talks about sheep :( |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by Serowbot on 08/24/16 at 22:29:00 Having met a couple of Mexicans once,.. is not the same as living in Mexico... Same for Middle Eastern cultures... I've met both,... my two best friends of 30+ years, are Mexican and Lebanese... ... and I know enough to know what I don't know... :-/ What I know more universally is,.. most humans just want to feel safe, secure, and comfortable,... have friendships, and love, and peace... Then, there are the nuts.... ...and we all have our nuts... |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/24/16 at 22:57:39 @Bot, they know how to cook lamb ;) 8-) |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by HovisPresley on 08/24/16 at 23:07:48 BTW.. I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "Wahhabism" in this forum. Without wishing to stereotype, but that's a shock to me :-? |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by raydawg on 08/25/16 at 04:01:25 1A3D243B21022037213E372B520 wrote:
Yes, and no..... But are we really looking for truth? This is just an example, given of my last physical visit, that was intended to show the press bias, and at least provide MY firsthand experience, of why the PRESS is disingenuous in reporting. My relationship with these Mexicans extends over 40 years with some of them, but I regress, the ones you guys know are more ethnic, or sumtin.... Blinders are blinders, no matter who wears them, fingers in ears only serves to retard hearing, hands over eyes, the vision..... Guess the prudent thing next is to put my hands over my mouth as a consideration for the other monkeys ;D PS: Hows that money holding out, you guys past the collapse yet? |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by Paraquat on 08/25/16 at 06:08:34 7A4445495B4746280 wrote:
I'm being silly. The notion being that they expect our laws to be changed to suit them where no other country would bend their will like that. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by WebsterMark on 08/25/16 at 06:17:58 2036213C24313C27530 wrote:
Except for every single conservative Christian, any practicing Catholic, any member of the clergy.....right Sew? |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by oldNslow on 08/25/16 at 06:41:40 1425362535312530440 wrote:
I'm being silly. The notion being that they expect our laws to be changed to suit them where no other country would bend their will like that. --Steve[/quote] I was hoping that was it. :) Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could seriously believe that this wasn't just a straight up ransom payment.All the talk of "we don't negotiate with terrorists - we won't succumb to extortion - it's their money anyway - etc. etc" is simply nonsense. Lost Artist wrote Quote:
I got involved in this discussion precisely because it dosen't have anything to do with Trump and Hillary, and I am heartily sick of talking about either of them. Since they have now crept into the conversation, I guess I'm done :P |
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Title: Re: Of COURSE it wasn't a ransom.. Post by raydawg on 08/25/16 at 07:53:41 447A7B77657978160 wrote:
I'm being silly. The notion being that they expect our laws to be changed to suit them where no other country would bend their will like that. --Steve[/quote] I was hoping that was it. :) Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could seriously believe that this wasn't just a straight up ransom payment.All the talk of "we don't negotiate with terrorists - we won't succumb to extortion - it's their money anyway - etc. etc" is simply nonsense. Lost Artist wrote Quote:
I got involved in this discussion precisely because it dosen't have anything to do with Trump and Hillary, and I am heartily sick of talking about either of them. Since they have now crept into the conversation, I guess I'm done :P [/quote] We need look no further than the FACT they used a foreign currency. If this was truly legit, we would have paid this legal obligation with our own currency. One can easily see why they used this ploy, to escape accountability.... Sorta like burying your private server in your basement and saying you did it was for transparency..... I was amazed at how far these sheep will go to extend any semblance of reasoning to continue this charade. In substance abuse programs we call this masking ;D |
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