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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Delo 400/Rotella oil thread /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1471385514 Message started by Ruttly on 08/16/16 at 15:11:53 |
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Title: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Ruttly on 08/16/16 at 15:11:53 I wasn't here for the original oil war , sounds like it was fun ! Delo400 Rules Don't ask me what's in my Suzuki |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/16/16 at 15:15:58 I've got some Delo400, I think. Didn't use it 'cause it's supposed to have a bit of moly in it, probably no worse than Rotella Syn. now. That, and I don't think it's JASO-MA approved. Anybody have good success with Delo in their Savage? Ruttly, what's in your Suzuki? :-? |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/16/16 at 20:02:13 I run Dino Rotella with 1 oz ZDDP Only cause so many here swear by it,makes me believe there is something to it ! However Delo400 is top grade oil, just as good or better than Rotella |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by SavageMan99 on 08/17/16 at 09:11:20 I like olive oil, extra virgin,cand Pam as a spray lube. |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/16 at 09:26:50 I've been in other forums and seen Rotella T the highly touted oil. We are not alone. |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Dave on 08/17/16 at 09:41:45 6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:
Yep..me too. The difference is that this forum included the data that showed why it works.....and why it is better for our engine. More importantly it showed why the other modern oils can (and are) damaging to the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Serowbot on 08/17/16 at 09:50:01 ... and,.. if you say it right, it sounds Italian... so it must be fast... Shealla Rrrotella... roll the R... very importante... |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 12:02:46 0133243335371F333C6B6B520 wrote:
Yes sir I spray it on the cold grill of my weber then put grill over hot coals slap on the burgers and my burgers don't stick to the grill, sounds good burgers this weekend ! |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 12:04:58 Ok what does rotella have or not have that make if better ? |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Dave on 08/17/16 at 12:15:33 7E59585840552C0 wrote:
It has enough ZDDP to keep the cam and rockers healthy. Modern oils have about half the 1,200 ppm our engine needs.,,,the EPA wanted the ZDDP levels reduced to help keep the Oxygen Sensors healthy for longer periods of time. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 12:25:06 Oh ok , yet we still add more ZDDP ? Cause the cam runs in aluminum ? Side effects on wet clutches ? Or cause it sounds Italian ? |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Dave on 08/17/16 at 12:40:00 It is not the aluminum that suffers from low ZDDP levels....unless you run your idle speed too low and the oil pressure is not adequate. The ZDDP protects the cam lobes and rocker arms from wear that occurs at the high pressure points. The ZDDP is a high pressure lubricant. We add to bump the level up to 1,400 ppm....just because some of us are a bit "enthusiastic"....1,200 ppm is most likely OK. http://i68.tinypic.com/2lx8h3.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/j5fd6a.jpg (The photos are from an engine that was idled on the sidestand....but that is what a damaged cam and damaged rocker looks like....I can post some better photos that are damaged rockers from using a low ZDDP, as I have plenty of them). |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 15:11:44 Keep my idle up a bit and don't let it idle on the side stand What about effects on clutch ? Once I used Cat cam lube on a cam in a xr200r took six oil changes before clutch would work , still had to replace the plates |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Dave on 08/17/16 at 18:08:34 The ZDDP has no effect on the clutch....the things that bother the clutch are the Friction Modifiers, like Moly. |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 20:01:46 Tanx fo splaining dat to me , Dave Spelling from JOGs dictionary Makes perfect sense , I will revise my statement Delo400 is top grade oil for diesels !!! |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by Ruttly on 08/17/16 at 20:54:30 I was goin to run redline synthetic , another top grade oil Ok now why isn't this acceptable, not enough ZDDP ? ZDDP can be added to any oil, if it's good for cams has to be good for gears & bearings ! |
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Title: Re: Rubber Duck Down Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/17/16 at 21:54:47 Has anyone had good luck out of Delo400 in the Savage? I seem to remember it had a tiny bit of moly in it like T6 Rotella. :-? |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 04:43:32 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 Using the Tech Section Index yields this little gem, which gem actually refers directly to Redline's synthetic oil as GOOD STUFF. This is the bulk Redline Synthetic oil, not the Redline ZDDP booster -- the booster is also an approved thing too, with a bump table (mixing instructions) and all that sort of good stuff. I dunno why some folks simply don't want to read the Tech Section, we put the answers there so you could read up and get educated some before you start asking questions. :) .... ah, the war of the redheads, that was one good oil war. I remember Ann Margaret and the young Irish lass very fondly. Ms. Redline had some truly sterling attributes as I remember ..... |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 04:48:50 Delo Dino http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/HDEO%20SUMMARYrev2.html 117 PPM of Moly isn't a good long term thing for our type of cork based wet clutch. Delo 400 dino may have all the ZDDP you need for the valve train, but it also has too much of the slippery moly stuff for us to use it in our Savage clutches. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Dave on 08/18/16 at 04:56:04 This is a better photo of the type of damage that occurs when an oil with low ZDDP is used in the Savage.....or any vintage style engine that doesn't have roller on the rockers. As the oil shears under extreme pressure - the ZDDP remains between the metal surfaces to prevent the metal from bonding. Without sufficient ZDDP the metal pieces actually fuse together and stick.....and a chunk of metal is pulled out of the previously smooth surface. http://i64.tinypic.com/143dy15.jpg |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 05:01:30 Spauling is the old school technical term for what Dave is showing and describing. "Pressure contact welding" is another way it is described. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Art Webb on 08/18/16 at 07:19:46 Rotella beats all other MC oils That is all peace out |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/18/16 at 08:01:21 Once a satisfactory solution to a problem is found, WHY KEEP HUNTING? Who lays in bed dreaming up new ways to build a wheel? If Rotella ISN'T a Really Good solution to the What oil should I use? Question, why is it so popular HERE? And why do we have people who have so many high mileage and healthy engines? It's widely available, it's affordable and,even without adding ZDDP, it's been demonstrated to keep engines alive. Is there a Better Oil out there? Possibly. And what will you gain if you find it? Instead of 135,000 miles you'll get, what? Grief... Spend the energy working out intake plumbing, or riding.. But, why can't we all just accept that we have found an oil that does the job well, is inexpensive as oils go and widely available, THEREFORE, the problem is solved and we can move on, barring the But I live where it's -30 degrees. I live in Australia, we don't Have Rotella. Yes, Dilbert,there ARE exceptions, but generally, for the people in America, the first thing you should reach for is a gallon of Rotella T 15/40. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by RaleighGuy on 08/18/16 at 08:19:57 524D4B4C51566757675F4D410A380 wrote:
--------------------------------- Dang, yo. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 10:35:01 RaleighGuy, Ruttly has declared this to be an oil war. This is a hallowed tradition here on SS, where we will "war" things that need an answer. It is just an energetic discussion that DOES have some traditional rules. We don't do any degeneration into name calling and we DO require you to post backup sources (or links) for every one of your points because what you remember isn't accurate or real enough for an Oil War. If you choose to enter into the torn churned earth between the trenches, you have to expect machine gun fire and mortar rounds to come at you from all sides. I fired a relevant shot from my rifle, answers to the questions that started this war up. You notice I didn't state any sort of opinion on my part, I just sent the jacketed slug true to the center of the question's haid bone from 300 yards out. Delo 400 dino has 2-3 times more moly in it than Rot Syn has in it currently (and 50 times more moly than dino Rotella T has ever had in it). JOG threw a more close up general hand grenade because he doesn't see any real intent to make any real sort of point coming out of Ruttly. Ruttly has instead stated he has never been in an oil war before and he just wanted to start one up to see what it was like. Now that you have transported yourself to the churned earth (laced with barbed wire) that exists between the trenches (chosen to participate) I suggest you get yourself over to the quarter masters bunker over there and draw yourself a weapon, a helmet and some kevlar underwear (ask for the flame proof stuff as some here still like to use them durn stinky smoky flame throwers). Think of Dave as the Medic, when you get shot he will come and give you a bandaid to put on it. When I was moderating the list, I'd edit the title of an oil war thread so it was clear to all the civilians to stay out, a discussion w/bullets was in progress. Most of the good stuff in Tech Section is the concise write up of output of various Wars and yes there have been a good half dozen or so full blown wars here on the list. I think this one isn't worth an oil war, personally, so I just shot it in the head to be done with it. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/18/16 at 11:07:31 796660677A7D4C7C4C74666A21130 wrote:
Why keep hunting??? More choices! More options! If Delo happens to be cheaper on the shelf or the only thing on the shelf... on sale, ripe for the picking, and it's just as good as white jug Rotella, then that means something. I recently found some Mobil Delvac for a dollar cheaper than Rotella. I picked Rotella instead. Why? Take a guess. How about other synthetic options? Anybody know of good, cheap synthetic oils other than T6 that work great on the Savage? |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Dave on 08/18/16 at 11:16:02 You can keep looking if you want.....at $12 - $15 a gallon it is plenty cheap and it works just fine and keeps the cam, rockers and clutch happy. Until something happens to Rotella T that makes it no longer suitable , I don't feel the need to shop around. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 11:32:01 Cheapie, you are just tossing out a popper plug trying to provoke something. Last person that did this was Bill, and we clipped his fishing line for doing it as he was giving out false/bad information to newbies in doing so. Or else you are just proving that you are too lazy to follow a reference thread and such are not worth responding to at all. Answers to all these bored people's questions can be found in the backup thread for the last oil war which is here (all the pert Bozongas were removed to keep the under 18 crowd's eyes from falling out). http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471408/0 |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/18/16 at 17:34:49 Well, let's hear it. Exactly what did you do to Bill, the Klotz man? >:( For the record, You've got a point, sometimes I'm a little too quick to jump the gun on talking about something without looking first. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/16 at 18:20:56 He and I went down to the river Styx and went swimming for a bit ..... both of us. Fair is fair, you know. I like fair, although I really don't care much for them little tubular brown fishes that live in that brown stinky Styx river water for very much. Bill didn't learn, or he wouldn't listen and went back to his fishin' tricks again and he got Kangaroo Kourted, judged and sentenced. Yer Honor, you've got your Savage back again ..... are you now available for Kourt Duty should such become necessary again ??? |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Art Webb on 08/19/16 at 07:59:33 02090400110F0416035355610 wrote:
Why keep hunting??? More choices! More options! If Delo happens to be cheaper on the shelf or the only thing on the shelf... on sale, ripe for the picking, and it's just as good as white jug Rotella, then that means something. I recently found some Mobil Delvac for a dollar cheaper than Rotella. I picked Rotella instead. Why? Take a guess. How about other synthetic options? Anybody know of good, cheap synthetic oils other than T6 that work great on the Savage?[/quote] Back when American Police osifers were restricted to revolvers, the round of choice in most osifer's revolvers was the venerable 125 grain .357 magnum at a nominal 1550 fps, a cartridge developed before I was born Other cartridges have been developed since then, some supposedly 'better', but the 125 grain .357 achieves on shot stops in 96% of all center mass hits Guess what cartrige a home invader will be shot with invading my home? obsessing over 'better' or 'cheaper' is just too tiring, with this round, I have the best known manstopper there is, with no brain cramps I like Rotella for the same reason, there are newer oils, supposedly 'better' oils, but Rotella works with no brain cramps, and has pretty much forever |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/16 at 11:57:05 Art, at the previous scoot and shoot (MM's farm) I brought my 13 shot capacity compensated muzzle braked pistol, tossing a 135 grain .40 caliber slugs at a sedate 1,750 fps. No felt recoil, ask the boys -- it would jump in place a bit (actually making a tiny back & forth motion mostly fed off the slide's motion). You never lost your target picture for the follow up shot in the daytime, but at night the muzzle flash is LARGE. Energy ran approximately twice what the 125 grain .357 round could do, so yes there actually is better stuff out there. More effective? Not really, dead is dead is dead ..... Also not really, both of them waste a lot of energy out past the first target (threatening bystanders and such) but they both do get the job done. Both of them would deafen you from the noise inside a dwelling, too. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by gizzo on 08/19/16 at 14:00:33 I think a front door with a little hole, through which you could run a potential home invader through with a sword, would be handy. Of course it would need a one way device to keep them doing the same to you, and to keep the breeze out. Plus, rotella should cost $90 a bottle and have a picture of a racing motorbike on it to make it an accceptable Motorcycle engine oil. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by batman on 08/19/16 at 15:12:09 I don't own a pistol but I do have a have a shotgun which meets federal regs,18"barrel,29" overall . I don't have to be a great shot ,and you won't hurt your family in the next room as it won't likely carry through walls.It will make a hole in someone's chest you can step through! |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Dave on 08/19/16 at 15:20:43 WOW.....I have seen oil threads get into some heated discussion before - but this is the first time I have seen one that evolved into the use of pistols, swords and shotguns! |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/16 at 16:41:58 Once, long ago, an oil war actually degenerated to the point where a nuclear ballistic missile actually got fired .... But small arms have always been used in oil wars, on both sides. Only trick is that FACTS are the only known bullets that have any effect and the side with the best facts tends to win an oil war in the end. ;) .... we may have to escalate this one -- deploy the c.a.t.f.i.s.h weapon !!! |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Ruttly on 08/19/16 at 20:06:17 Launching a aimless scud missle your way, don't try to run, best off standing still with a scud heading your way, chances are it will miss. You hope ! Have been using Casrol GTX 15/40 & 20/50 in my bikes for close to 40 years without any oil related failures this oil is a favorite in Europe & around the world. This is best bang for your buck oil I have ever used. Liquid gold if some ZDDP is added ! Stand or Run ? Incoming ! |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/16 at 20:18:14 rol GTX 15/40 & 20/50 in my bikes for close to 40 years without any oil related failures this oil is a favorite in Europe & around the world. This is best bang for your buck oil I have ever used Blahhdeblahhblahhh.. Unsubstantiated claims. bang for your buck So? |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/16 at 21:21:22 Ruttly, give us the VOA for the exact Castrol GTX oil you are referring to. Next, tell us the cost per quart. In doing so you are going to figure out that Castrol GTX is a car oil, currently running under SAE SN requirements and although it may have been a significant enough oil 16 years ago, right now it is just as neutered as any other car oil. Don't get confused by the old Castrol Racing oil, that had lots of good stuff (or it used to have) but it also lacked a detergent package and long durability as it was intended to be dumped at the end of the race. And Castrol Racing oil was a dino oil that cost as much as a synthetic costs now days. Two issues with trying to war any Castrol products, which one of the 5-8 different types are you really talking about, and they all actually cost more than Rotella products cost (Walmart sells both, you know). |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/16 at 00:34:47 I thought Blahhdeblahhblahhh.. Unsubstantiated claims. bang for your buck So? Was every Bit as well worded, but, maybe not. I wasn't typing all that. But,yeah, we need the details in order to Ascertain the Bang for the Buck claims. Instead of unsubstantiated claims... |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/20/16 at 05:34:05 Who owns / bottles Castrol now that it is just a brand name on a bottle? Synopsis of web search 8/20/16 British Petroleum (BP) controls the bottling of the Castrol brand name, and what is actually in the bottle comes off of any bottling facility that they chose to ship the bottles to as the oil is bottled regionally, world-wide. There are bottling codes and lot numbers on the bottles themselves that can trace back to the bottling plant that did that particular bottle. An example of part of a bottle code is the bottling plant itself. (WPP = Warren Petroleum Products for example) Type your bottle code into your browser and see what it can find out for you. Most volume produced commercial oil is treated this way, with an additives spec sheet on file at a commercial bottling plant that bottles many different brand names during a normal working week. No claims are made for the base oil used in such cases, as it actually changes (but meets a standard base oil requirement of course) according to what is available that month at the best cost. As such Castrol or Amoco or BP (same same actually) oil is produced locally according to the local regulations and laws. In America, this is SAE SN oil and Castrol meets this SN requirement all the way. In short, it is dino car oil, "regional generic" to a fair degree. All the Castrol "liquid engineering" stuff on the bottle is advertising and promotion. Can contain large amounts of sulfur in the base oil (with more added as an additive) which gets either blessed or boned depending on who is writing the review. Largest US investor is Morgan Investments. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/20/16 at 06:09:38 http://i64.tinypic.com/143dy15.jpg I love this pic, you can actually see the ZDDP film on it and see where the film broke down and what happens to the steel when that happens. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Art Webb on 08/20/16 at 07:39:18 092A2220232A2A2334460 wrote:
I am drooling over that gun and load, OF, but the .44 magnum also has a lot more energy than the 125 grain .357 magnum, but, for some reason, does not score as high on the 'one shot stop' tabel as the .357, ain't that odd? the old cop load works, don't need 'better' ;) in most states, handloads in a defensive pistol will get you on the wrong side of a jury, so I stick with factory loads The .40 has some good factory loads, too, almost as good as my old standby cop gun, but they cost more per box, here in my area, so the .357 still gets the 'bang for the buck' title when you compare apples to apples The 125gr .357 actually over penetrates less frequently than the .38 +p hollowpoints, though the 158gr LSWCHP is a good choice in a .38 caliber Batman, my front door is 4 inches from my bed, as i live, currently, in a 16x8 travel trailer, I wouldn't have time to get a shotgun in action ;D |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by SavageMan99 on 08/20/16 at 11:11:11 Is it ok to use moly on my 38spc?, or will it make the cylinder slip? I have 3 engines right now, each very different from the other. A 2.2 in an 83 Plymouth Scamp, a 6.5 turbo in a diesel K30, and the 650 in the Savage. Every one of them gets Rotella 15-40 because of the zddp. I've done the research, asked the questions, and seen the pictures to prove it. If your not running a roller cam, it is the stuff. It also seems to maintain a higher oil pressure when hot, but that is my opinion based on my two vehicles motors. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/20/16 at 15:38:52 Moly in guns has a mixed history, mostly because some folks swear they got corrosion that existed as a unseen surprise and said corrosion had extended itself under the moly coating of the lands and grooves. Cubic boron nitride does the same sort of beneficial things moly did in a gun but it is non-hydroscopic. Color is white, coated barrel is essentially a clear coating as opposed to the very dark coating from moly. Neither is needed in a 38 special, a gun that originally shot lead bullets at moderate velocity. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Art Webb on 08/21/16 at 07:07:54 My guns get Hoppe's no 9 oil, and they're happy about it my non roller engines get Rotella, and they're happy about it If you shoot lead through your .38s and other similar revolvers A cylinder or two of jacketed rounds will get the lead out of the barrel better than any 'lead remover kit' you can buy, and easier, too :D |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/21/16 at 08:33:47 You sure that's not cheating? |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Oldfeller on 08/21/16 at 10:17:23 No, its not cheating. Smarter than the other way, for sure. Smarter yet is having properly fitted & lubed lead slugs that do not lead at all. But this is not common ..... here anyway. |
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Title: Re: Delo 400/Rotella oil thread Post by Art Webb on 08/22/16 at 07:32:38 well you don't expect a slow moving pistol round to lead, but the 'FBI load' uses a soft lead alloy (actually it might be near pure lead) you can cut with a fingernail to promote expansion at it's nominal 890 fps, so it can, if you shoot a lot of them |
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