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Message started by Lenny on 08/11/16 at 20:31:09

Title: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/11/16 at 20:31:09

Hi all,
Hope someone can point me in the right direction.
Just stripped and rebuilt a 2003 savage with only 10,000 km on the clock that was left outside to rot.
Stripped and painted, scraped, sanded and polished then reassembled.
New starter and solenoid and away she went. Was having battery issues so didn't ride much. Then I changed the battery and went for a ride but when I gave her some juice she coughed and missed so I slowly took her home and pulled the carb. I noticed some black stuff in the fuel which I assumed was dissolved paint from around the petcock from where I had painted the tank.
Stripped the jets and slide and cleaned all with carb cleaner. After putting everything back together she still wouldn't start.
Things I noticed while cranking, 1: if I opened the throttle then rolled it off it would idle for about 3 seconds then stop. 2: Backfiring in the exhaust.
Have tried full choke, half choke and no choke.
Have tried idle screw at 1.5 and 2.5 turns out.
Have checked the spark plug for spark.
Petcock is on Pri and there seems to be plenty of fuel in the float bowl.
Have removed carb a second and third time, lastly to blow it out with an air compressor.
As I've said, she was starting and running fine for a few days but not now.
Could it be something else???
Don't know what to try next. Can't take it to a motorcycle mechanic as I live on an island and there isn't one.

Can anyone with experience help please.
Thanks in advance.
Lenny

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by stewmills on 08/11/16 at 20:39:18

Mske sure the battery is good. It can spark not under load, but installed under compression can make a weak battery barely weak enough to not have sufficient juice th turn the engine and generate a good spark.

Others will offer good advice as well, but a sketchy battery can drive you nuts. Even new batteries go bad.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/11/16 at 21:11:24

Thanks Stewmills,
What you have said is definitely the problem I was having with the old battery. Have since changed it for a good one. Don't think that is the problem now.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 21:19:46

Stew is right get a new battery. But I suspect a bad petcock ! Time for a raptor !

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/11/16 at 21:27:20

Thanks guys,
I don't doubt you but that doesn't seem right now.
I had an old dodgy battery and after charging it she started and ran fine.
I now have a battery from my other bike which cranks her over very strongly for ages.
With the petcock on Pri there is a continuous flow of fuel so why would it be that?

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/16 at 22:40:22

1A3338382F560 wrote:

1: if I opened the throttle then rolled it off it would idle for about 3 seconds then stop. 2: Backfiring in the exhaust.
Have tried full choke, half choke and no choke.
Have tried idle screw at 1.5 and 2.5 turns out.
Have checked the spark plug for spark.

1. indicates flooding
how did the plug look?
what jets are you using?

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/12/16 at 00:43:50

Thanks Verslagen1.
Running stock jets.
Plug looks black but I thought that was because I forgot to push the choke in all the way the last time I rode it. Only about 5 km.
Plug does not look wet after cranking.

Can the timing go out?
I have done the cam chain tensioner mod and there isn't any cam chain noise that is obvious.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by BSTON on 08/12/16 at 06:36:47

The black, dry plug would indicate an overly rich fuel mix. It could still possibly stem back to a weak battery that isn't creating the correct spark for complete combustion.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by stewmills on 08/12/16 at 06:45:15

Lenny,
Not to harp on the battery and question what you know about your equipment, but a lot of issues have been resolved similar to yours just because of a bad battery. I got brand new battery that caused me much grief, only to take it back to the store and find it was bad. Just because it is NEW doesn't always mean it is GOOD.

It could be that you have other issues that aren't the battery, but to rule that out do you have a meter or a way to check the battery and report the results here? I don't know the parameters, but if you need guidance on the process and what the expected results should be there are folks here that can lay that out for you.

Hang in there...we'll keep chipping away at this with you. ;)

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by ohiomoto on 08/12/16 at 06:46:38

If you ran it with the choke on and you have a chalky black plug, it sounds like you "Dry Fouled" the plug.

Replace it and your problem will most likely be resolved. (Or you could try cleaning it.)

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/12/16 at 13:52:44

Thanks stewmills and ohiomoto & bston,
Appreciate your help guys.

The plug was rather sooty but I did give it a wipe down.
I have a 2016 s40 boulevard also, so I will pull the battery and spark plug from that and fit them in the Savage.
That should either fix or rule out those things.
I'm working today and tomorrow so will get back to the bike on Monday.
As I said, live on an Island, no grid power so no work on bikes after dark.

All suggestions welcome.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by stewmills on 08/12/16 at 14:15:43

Good luck! Sounds like you have a good initial plan of attack to try and rule some obvious things out.

On a side note, if you are on an island is it possible that you have fuel that was stored and may be old? You kinda noted that you have gone through the carb which makes me think you have drained things and put fresh fuel in it....but it's worth asking just to be on the safe side. We've seen things as simple as old bad fuel resolve a few issues too. ;)

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/12/16 at 14:26:20

Yea, drained all the fuel and bought more.
Used the old fuel in my generator, no problems.

I've just learned there is a filter behind the float needle.
First question, how to get the float retaining pin out.
second question, how much fuel should be flowing into the float bowl.

With the petcock on Pri and the bowl drain screw open there is a steady stream of fuel. Even if the float needle filter is partially blocked I don't see that the bike wouldn't start.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by gizzo on 08/12/16 at 16:36:48

Its pretty easy to r & r the carb. Could you swap it for the one on your other bike, see how it runs and really clean the other (carb dip & compressed air) or send it away for ultrasonic cleaning? Hopefully its just the plug though.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/12/16 at 17:13:00

Yea, it's looking like I might have to. Not that I want to pull apart my brand new bike. Higher risk of scratching.
I'll pull battery and plug first, then if necessary the carb till I find the problem.
Will post results Monday arvo.
Appreciate everyones help.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by batman on 08/14/16 at 10:41:02

lenny ,It's been a while ,I can't remember if the float pin only moves out in one direction or not,perhaps someone else will chime in here,but maybe you could use a little WD-40 and try rolling it first. You need to be carefull (gentle) as the towers are just potmetal and will break easy.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/14/16 at 13:47:15

Thanks batman, The pin does only move in one direction.
It's in very tight and I can't lever it out so I guess the only way is to (gently) punch it out with a pin punch.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/14/16 at 16:06:10

Ok guys,
Pulled the plug and battery from my s40 and installed them in my savage.
Hit the starter and instant start.
Have yet to determine which was at fault, have to let her cool down, but picking it was the plug.
If so lesson learned, don't ever ride with the choke on. To rich kills plugs.
Thanks for all your input, much appreciated.

Title: Re: Savage won't start.
Post by Lenny on 08/14/16 at 21:32:55

Hi guys,
Been for a good blast, the Savage goes like a raped ape now I've got the tuning right. As it warmed up I had to tweek the mixture screw slightly richer as it was surging. 1/4 turn each time, twice.
The problem was definitely the plug, thanks ohiomoto.
Thanks to everyone who responded, much appreciated.