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Message started by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 19:26:37

Title: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 19:26:37

Wow what a crappy horn,my dogs squeaky toys make more noise than the Savage horn. What horn are you guys using? Something loud and that will fit in that same area !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 19:29:17

Someone said that the horn is somehow adjustable. :-?

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 20:32:23

Ya know I didn't even look but I will , usually a screw with a jam nut on it
Thanks newbee

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/11/16 at 20:46:01

Ruttly,

Please post any adjustments that you find can be made on the horn.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 20:51:39

My buddy has a 2016 HD Dyna has a horn as loud as a old pickup truck, might get one !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/11/16 at 21:00:27

Kenny, I will check it out this weekend & post what I find

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/16 at 21:27:15

Double toot on the horn followed by a savage backfire.
They don't know whether to laugh or crap themselves. 8-)

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/11/16 at 21:29:39

Ruttly,

I have a Cow Bell from a Harley that I have had installed on the last half dozen bikes that I owned, but I could never find what looked like a suitable location for the Cow Bell on my S40.

The Cow Bell is loud enough to get a lot of attention.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/12/16 at 02:14:11

$12 Fiamm horn is loud as hell. Wouldn't want anything else! 8-)

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/12/16 at 06:18:38

Chimp,

Need more info.

A pic would be nice.

A link to who sells it.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/12/16 at 06:29:35

Yeah a cow bell wouldn't quite blend in to well
Or is that your gremlin bell ?

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/12/16 at 06:35:29

Ruttly,

I do have a Gremlin Bell and that looks fine mounted on the lower part of the triple tree.

The Cow Bell is just too big for the Savage/S40, it really looked great on the V-Twins that I had.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/12/16 at 13:08:00

available everywhere, Wally, O'reilly, Amazin' etc.:
https://www.amazon.com/FIAMM-72112-Freeway-Blaster-Horn/dp/B000DINKPQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1471032493&sr=1-1&keywords=fiamm+horn
8-)

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by stewmills on 08/12/16 at 13:15:05

30233A232E2B292223273A4A0 wrote:

Zip, did you have to run the relay also, or just the horn direct wired up?

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Serowbot on 08/12/16 at 14:50:00

More cowbell !!!!...

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Tocsik on 08/12/16 at 16:17:34

5A747F5263706279110 wrote:

Chimp,

Need more info.

A pic would be nice.

A link to who sells it.

Kenny G

Here's my post on installation of dual FIAMM El Grande horn setup. Has a link to a video with the sound.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1436647368/10

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/12/16 at 17:49:42

Thank You!

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 18:13:23

382E39243C29243F4B0 wrote:

More cowbell !!!!...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCd0OjjCz88[/media]

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by oldNslow on 08/12/16 at 19:06:10

My horn does exactly what it needs to do. Once a year I press the button. the horn makes a little beep, and the guy at the NYS motor vehicle inspection station puts a new safety sticker on the fork, and I can ride away without worrying about THAT particular traffic ticket for another 12 months. :D

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/12/16 at 20:44:22

Newbee , Now that was funny !!!

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/12/16 at 23:12:30

Attached the Fiamm wires to the old horn wire location. Nice and simple and LOUD! 8-)

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Tocsik on 08/13/16 at 05:18:58

51425B424F4A484342465B2B0 wrote:

Attached the Fiamm wires to the old horn wire location. Nice and simple and LOUD! 8-)

I'm not an expert but a lot of the reading I did stated you could burn out the contacts in the horn switch because of the increased current flow. The relay handles the current and let's the switch just open and close the circuit.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Dave on 08/13/16 at 05:48:35

It is hard to know what the stock horn button can handle. When a louder horn is installed....chances are that it uses more power than the stock horn, and that means more current will be passing through the wires and button contacts. This could potentially exceed what the stock wiring and button can handle.

When a relay is installed you will put less current through the stock wiring, and you most likely can get better performance from the new horn, as you will most likely be using a larger wire which will be able to handle the current blow better.

If the new horn only draws a bit more power....you might be OK without a relay. Does the stock horn list a power rating on it?

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Paladin. on 08/13/16 at 06:08:51

I mounted a pair of "highway" horns:

http://www.andruschak.net/savage/Paladin/Horns.jpg

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/13/16 at 12:29:42

Guess a cow bell would be ok if it was CHROME !!!

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/13/16 at 12:47:42

Realistically, how often would you use it? Drove my previous car 6 years without one, never used one on a bike. Nice to have if you need it, but really? 8-)

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/13/16 at 21:22:34

Update on the adjustment on stock horn. If your horn works , do not bother to try to adjust it. If your horn sounds like your wife's battery operated friend she hides in the duntaduntas drawer then you can try adjusting it. A Phillips head screw on the back of horn is the adjustment. Only turn the screw a tiny bit at a time in either direction then try it. Adjust it until it sounds like your dogs squeaky toy, try it several times until your happy with it then put a gob of silicone around the screw so it doesn't move. If it works don't screw with it !!! F¥#€%#* Junk ! Looks Good !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/13/16 at 21:29:19

Now Im wondering how much that HD Dyna horn is gonna cost. Update you on that when I get one !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/14/16 at 15:48:57

1) HD horn 50.00 usd
Loud as an old pickup truck
Wiring , same spade connectors as Savage, non polarized horn just hook it up with wires either way !
Mounting in progress.

For Sale : Savage horn,nice chrome

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/14/16 at 17:52:25

Had a drumming sound at different rpms , thought it was electrical connectors under the tank but it was the stock horn just barely rubbing the modified RYCA tank.
Used the stock bracket but turned it around to point to the rear, horn kit had a shouldered nut that fit the rubber grommet,put a flat washer on the nut and a 6 mm lock washer under the nut & wires reach fine. DONE !

They will here my horn now !!!

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/14/16 at 18:02:38

I tried the cow bell but it won't ring when I pushed the button !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/17/16 at 20:42:45

Quoted from Dave's post above.

"If the new horn only draws a bit more power....you might be OK without a relay. Does the stock horn list a power rating on it?"

Yes. The rating on my 2013 S40 horn is: 12V 3A 105 Decibels

The 2 horns that I purchased from Amazon are rated at 100 Decibels and stamped on the horn is: 12V 1.5A. I am sure I could get away with out a relay, but since I already have the relay and fuse holder I went ahead and installed them.

Since I installed the horns with Rubber Vibration Isolators I had to run a ground wire from the battery to the horns.

I am not certain if 2 x 100 Decibel Horns will make 200 Decibels?
I will find out tomorrow.......

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/16 at 21:01:23

I'm pretty sure two crickets are at least twice as loud as one.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Dave on 08/18/16 at 03:27:18

7658537E4F5C4E553D0 wrote:

I am not certain if 2 x 100 Decibel Horns will make 200 Decibels?
I will find out tomorrow.......

Kenny G

I am certain that 2 x 100 does not make 200 when it comes to sound. The db scale is arranged so that every 10db increase is a doubling of loudness to the human ear. When you go from 100 db t 110 db, the sound intensity is doubled.!

I tried to GOOGLE this question about 2 horns being twice as loud as 1....and I couldn't find anything. I believe the reason is that the 2 horns will never have the pressure waves synchronized - so the intensity of the loudness will change as the pressure waves comes in and out of phase.

So the result is that 2 horns of equal power are only twice as loud if they are synchronized so that the pressure waves are in phase and the horns create a simultaneously larger pressure wave. Most "dual" horns are made intentionally with different frequencies, this allows the horns to come in and out of phase, and the pressure waves change from being in and out of phase continually....and when they are in phase the combination makes the pressure waves stronger and at other times tends to cancel each other. This pulsing effect does makes the sound more noticeable, and the pulsing may not be audible as it is most likely faster than the ear/brain can process (the same way you can't see the 60 cycle pulse that occurs in florescent bulbs or a cathode ray TV screen).

So...2 horns are louder than 1 - but I am not sure they are twice as loud (and it is maybe impossible for the human ear to be an accurate measure of the "loudness" of a sound from the "fullness" of a sound).

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/18/16 at 05:59:50

Dave,

I am hoping the dual horns are loud enough to hear.

The worst part of this horn change was getting the JIS screws loose that mount the horn to the frame. I used a soldering iron on them for 6 minutes each and beat on them with an impact driver and a 3 LB. hammer until they finally loosened. I couldn't budge the screws with my JIS screwdriver. This is a ridiculous way to attach anything to a motorcycle that isn't likely to fall off and cause a mechanical failure.....

If for some reason the dual horns are not loud enough what would happen if I used one Suzuki horn and one after market horn?

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Dave on 08/18/16 at 06:14:43

The horn on my Pontiac Vibe was pathetic, and I installed the Hella Supertone Horns. They are listed as 118db, and they are very loud, and part of that is because they are big...they are almost 5" in diameter. I don't know if they are just too big to look good on a motorcycle. I believe it is necessary that loud horns get bigger.....there is only so much air that can be moved by a small horn. These will require a relay - although I can't find anywhere the power requirement of the horn is listed.

https://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003399801-Supertone-High-Bracket/dp/B000CRZXPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471526053&sr=8-1&keywords=hella+supertone

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/18/16 at 06:46:45

Dave,

I think a 5" horn is going to be hard to make look good on a medium sized motorcycle. I have a Harley Cow Bell that was mounted on a lot of motorcycles that I have owned, but it just doesn't look right on the S40.

I will see what I get for noise on my setup and go from there.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Tocsik on 08/18/16 at 07:24:44

21322B323F3A383332362B5B0 wrote:

Realistically, how often would you use it? Drove my previous car 6 years without one, never used one on a bike. Nice to have if you need it, but really? 8-)

You kidding? The number of times drivers (both distracted and not distracted) have either started a lane change on top of me or a left turn in front of me can't be counted. I've been riding since the 80's, retook the MSF course in '08 and am conscious of staying out of blind spots etc. I certainly don't overuse my horn; I think we all know how angry and hair-trigger society has turned in to on our roads. But I'll take having a horn that startles poor drivers vs. a little "beep beep" when I need it.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/18/16 at 08:34:11

In Galveston a guy flipped the left turn signal and just changed lanes on me. I was maybe five feet behind. I was gaining. It's raining. And that horn was just not enough for him to hear. I considered kicking the car, but elected to goose it and get by before he was finished with the lane change. I didn't look back to see if he was shocked that a motorcycle was actually in the lane that he just took.

I rode for over seven hours without seeing a bike. Only saw two, man and woman, each on the obligatory Harley, in Lufkin. And they were not dressed for rain, not really dressed for riding. Bare arms,, and no gloves..

I'm gonna get a horn on it.. might not be sexy looking, but it will be heard.

Dave, DB was one of the most confusing things in electronics school. How is it possible to even Have negative DB?
As weird as
Holes moving through solid state conductors was, at least that seems possible.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/18/16 at 12:07:44

That Harley horn cost waay too much but it fits on the stock bracket and wires reach just point the bracket to rear, very simple install
It's loud as hell ! Shiney black plastic blends in with frame nicely .

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/18/16 at 13:23:31

Ruttly,

How about showing us a picture?

Kenny

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/18/16 at 19:49:32

Sorry posting pics is not my thing
PM your email to me I'll send a pic

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/19/16 at 09:35:34

Two horns are definitely louder than one horn.

At the moment I have the factory horn mounted, with jumper wires going to a second horn from Amazon. It is loud but I wouldn't say it is a pleasant sound.

I am having trouble deciding where to mount the 2nd. horn.

I am also having difficulty making up my mind where to mount the relay. If anyone else has used a relay perhaps they could share where they mounted it?

Kenny G :-/

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/19/16 at 10:22:22

Kenny mount relay close to oem horn so you can get oem horn wiring to reach relay , less wiring that way

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Tocsik on 08/19/16 at 11:43:42

I took off the factory reflectors on the frame and you can use the machine screws from those reflectors to the threaded holes where the reflectors mount. That's where I put the 2 FIAMM El Grande's.

And ruttly, while I respect anyone's privacy, posting pics to the forum helps the community. Give and take.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/19/16 at 12:08:58

toscik , don't have what I need to post pics, don't have time work 9 to10 hrs 6 or 7 days with 3 to 4 hr commute. Pics in phone take it or leave !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/19/16 at 12:25:03

Kenny , fuse power to pole 30 on relay , wire from pole 87 to horns , oem wires to old horn to pole 85 & 86 , may have to swap wires at 85 & 86

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/19/16 at 12:27:55

Tocsik,

At your suggestion, I have tried mounting the auxiliary horn where the reflector goes on the right hand side, it works. I am not sure that I want the second horn all that visible. I will probably paint it black to hide it.

The combination of the factory horn and 1 aftermarket horn does make more noise than the 2 aftermarket horns. I am thinking that is what Dave meant earlier in this posting.

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/16 at 12:44:17

1B202D3A2B273C3A2129243B480 wrote:

[quote author=7658537E4F5C4E553D0 link=1470968797/30#31 date=1471491765]
I am not certain if 2 x 100 Decibel Horns will make 200 Decibels?
I will find out tomorrow.......

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/19/16 at 13:31:48

Most cars that have dual horns use a hi & low tones horns making that pressure wave broader !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by KennyG on 08/19/16 at 20:28:46

The two horns are definitely much louder than just the factory horn.

I am hoping people in automobiles can now hear the horn.

Time will tell.....

Kenny G

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/30/16 at 12:53:00

Ah crap , Rode my sporty last Sunday honked the horn guess what another dam squeaky toy , same horn as the savage minus the plastic chrome , no joke same part # ! Stop by Harley stealership on my way home tonight !

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by sauvage on 08/31/16 at 01:19:46

All the figures are pretty well irrelevant because what matters is only the dB at the person's ear whose attention you need to attract.

But the bottom line is that if you need to use the horn in an emergency situation then you are already behind the eight ball, you're better off not wasting time that would be better put into braking. IMHO

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Ruttly on 08/31/16 at 04:45:40

Agreed , I'm no rookie at the game , horn is for when you can't take your hand off the bars to flip some idiot the bird !!!

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by Dave on 08/31/16 at 04:57:12

I use my wimpy horn to "honk and wave" if the neighbors are out in the yard when I ride past.

I am not sure how well even a good horn works at getting the attention of stoopid or distracted drivers. With the windows up, AC on, stereo cranked (and/or ear buds installed)......I just don't think I am going to get their attention.

That being said......I see no downside in trying to find a better/louder horn as long as it is wired properly and doesn't fry the horn button or wire harness.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by sauvage on 08/31/16 at 05:13:16

@Dave, sometimes when a driver honks me due only to some frustration, it just makes me smile on the inside and I'm sure that honking a driver who has done something dangerous to let them know you're annoyed with them would only make them happier.

Title: Re: That's not a horn !
Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/31/16 at 19:47:51

Take a look at this. It gives some technical information on dB levels.

http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/