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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Clutch cam... When does it break? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1470952681 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 14:58:00 |
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Title: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 14:58:00 Thought about giving Justin a PM about this, but I figure it would be best to just start a discussion. There have been some people to have their clutch cams break. I've been wondering a few things. 1.At what point(s) of adjustment (clutch rod length) is the cam most vulnerable to breakage? I recall one thread that appeared to say that too far in any direction could cause trouble. I'm curious as to what position Justin's clutch lever was at when his cam broke. If we can get a pattern to this, that would open up the possibility for safe mods. I've been thinking of strengthening my clutch, but Suzuki's design kinda has it locked into being weak. I can put kevlar plates in it, but they cost $75+. If I put in more plates or springs or something, I'll put more stress on that cam. I'm about to buy some different length clutch rods to experiment since they're so cheap. My lever is near the upper mark. I don't understand how I could get any more clutch grip from these rods since I should have play in the lever. :-? 2. I've noticed that it is often said that the cam is sintered metal. I recall finding a thread that mentioned it being not sintered, but simply improperly treated steel. Is there an easy way to fix the cam and make it stronger? 3. If not, maybe we should make a new cam. It's not really a "cam" as we usually know it. The piece basically consists of a couple of offset plates, one to hold the spring, and the other with a dimple for the rod to seat. I've spent quite a bit on hiring machinist lately. They aren't cheap. I'm gonna have to learn how to do this stuff myself. :-/ Tough when you don't have a milling machine. Now that I have that bolt out so that I can get to the clutch easily, I can do experiments now. I'm gonna worry about simply getting it up and running first, though. Maybe this can become a useful discussion for others to reference. :-? |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by HovisPresley on 08/11/16 at 17:28:19 Leave it alone, please ;) |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by Kris01 on 08/11/16 at 17:42:52 545F525647595240550503370 wrote:
Might be a good idea! ::) |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by Art Webb on 08/12/16 at 07:30:43 The clutch cam will reliably break after you 'improve' it ;) |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 08:17:11 Crazy question... Do all the clutch plates need to be the same material? |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by Dave on 08/12/16 at 08:34:45 373C3135243A3123366660540 wrote:
If they aren't.....isn't it kinda' like wearing a tennis shoe on your left foot and a work boot on your right foot? :-? They are going to have different characteristics, and they may not work well together. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by HovisPresley on 08/12/16 at 08:38:27 EBC clutch packs use the same material. I'd imagine the same is true of Barnett clutches. You could try blancmange as a friction material, though. It is lighter and much cheaper than the 'brands', but you may have to replace them more often. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by Serowbot on 08/12/16 at 09:59:01 43505655474040220 wrote:
;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 12:17:54 43647D62785B796E78676E720B0 wrote:
I actually had to look that up to find out it was a food. ;D You're dealing with an American here. (started to be all redneck and write 'merkin, but I actually know what those things are ;D) I was talking about throwing in a kevlar plate or two with the oem cork. I found a good deal on a couple Barnetts. He didn't have 6, though. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by verslagen1 on 08/12/16 at 12:47:57 when you hitch a team up to your wagon, do you use a donkey and a mule? |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by old.indian on 08/12/16 at 13:46:34 This is what I used in mine... But then I prefer to ride my Thumper, not tinker with it in the garage. https://www.facebook.com/Windsor-Cycles-184433417412/app/251458316228/ |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 13:48:56 150611100F0204060D52630 wrote:
Unequally yoked principle you say.... So, you think something will get stressed out? I wonder how it would work.... :-? Maybe one plate catching hard without the others would put high stress on the basket and that single plate. Can't say it would break... at least not for awhile...maybe not at all :-/ It would have a hard life, yes? Every launch would be a hard one for that one plate. It wouldn't be any more than it's maximum stress, though. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by gizzo on 08/12/16 at 14:35:01 You still seem convinced the clutch is weak for some reason. I'm not sure why. It's not like they fail that often. I might have mentioned another time that my local Suzuki parts guy who specialises in genuine vintage Suzuki NOS parts told me Suzuki uses the same clutch plates in bigger badder motorbikes than the Cabbage. None of these bikes are famous for weak clutches. It's not that I care what you do, I just don't think you'll be able to improve a properly set up stock clutch, or need to. I guess the more time you waste "improving" things, the less chance you're going to have a motorbike accident. And yes, there is supposed to be one thick plate in there. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by verslagen1 on 08/12/16 at 14:53:24 engineering 101 - there's static friction and dynamic friction. Dynamic (moving) friction is always less the static. if you have 2 different materials, 1 will break loose before the other. So your donkey is being dragged by his harness... he's under your wagon, neck broken and Your mule is about to give up the ghost cause he can't bear the load. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by verslagen1 on 08/12/16 at 14:56:32 5F454143427C4D5E585E45484B492C0 wrote:
Ol' cheapy is our 'thick' plate. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by gizzo on 08/12/16 at 15:17:14 HahAhaha ;D Good one. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by SavageMan99 on 08/12/16 at 15:23:57 I want to know where this cam came from, I thought we had a single cam motor... Can I buy one with a custom grind to make mine shift faster? I understand where he's coming from, sometimes just pondering and positing is a way to learn things you wouldn't otherwise know. Maybe he's in basic learning mode and learning as he can. Of course maybe he's just alive for sole purpose of being annoying. Not that I've ever been accused of that ::) |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 15:42:33 ;D Don't worry guys... I've annoyed more than just this forum. :cough: college professors/students :cough: Who knows, maybe my craziness just comes natural. Maybe Savageman is onto something. ;) I can often be rather talkative in person, and I have a tendency to try to learn by asking people questions. During college, while others were just trying to figure out what was on the test, I would come up with all sorts of questions. Instead of trying to remember all those questions or disregard them, I'd just ask during class. The cam is not really a cam. It's just an indented push plate on a shaft. Its a lever primarily; it doesn't have much sliding friction. What I wonder is what on earth that thick plate and steel rings are for. The rings seem counterproductive. Maybe it's to help disengage the clutch and get into gear easily? Why a thick plate? :-? What would happen if I removed one of those rings? I think the clutch would grip harder. I wonder what else would happen... :-/ Would it be safe :-? :-/ Maybe the front friction plate gets more stress? :-? |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by gizzo on 08/12/16 at 16:29:30 Why don't you investigate the possibility of making a centrifugal clutch fit in there. That would be fun. It would grip harder the faster you go, and you could do away with that annoying clutch lever. |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 16:55:35 Then, I wouldn't have the fun of using the lever. I don't like automatic transmissions much. Hmmm... Maybe it would be fun??? :-/ Interesting... manual trans with automatic clutch. Dirtbikes sometimes use those... right? |
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Title: Re: Clutch cam... When does it break? Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 17:35:22 So... Here's a challenge for the Savage gurus: Can anyone not only tell me why that first friction plate is so thick, but also why it is supposed to be so loose? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpLJNEYl4MY&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpLJNEYl4MY&feature=youtu.be[/media] Now ain't that loosey goosey? |
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