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Message started by sauvage on 08/09/16 at 22:58:48

Title: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by sauvage on 08/09/16 at 22:58:48

Thing is, I don't know what is normal for this bike, just comparing it to the GS500 which on a cold engine with the choke out starts almost instantly. The S40 on the other hand even when it is warm with no choke it turns over say 4 times, maybe more. It's not excessively long but I wondered if this is normal and is caused by the auto decompression OR is it a symptom of being slightly lean?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by striknein on 08/10/16 at 02:32:56

33213536212725400 wrote:

It's normal.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Dave on 08/10/16 at 04:10:41

This really can vary from bike to bike.

If you have the stock vacuum petcock, and your bike has been parked for a while....it may help to put it on PRI before you try to start the bike.

My bike start on the first or second rotation - I have heard others that crank over for a second or two.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/10/16 at 06:29:53

You are correct, the automatic decompression actuator results in longer cranking.

So could an old spark plug or a dirty air filter. What is the condition of the bike?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/16 at 07:14:14

5E54505A51585C550B0D09390 wrote:

You are correct, the automatic decompression actuator results in longer cranking.

So could an old spark plug or a dirty air filter. What is the condition of the bike?

If you feel it's the decomp, loosen it a half turn till it starts immediately.
Then I'd say tighten a 1/4.

Takes a long time, be patient.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by stewmills on 08/10/16 at 07:29:38

If mine has been sitting for a week or so, it takes 4 or 5 chugs before it cranks over. If I have been riding it that day, maybe a couple of chugs and we're off to the races!

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Serowbot on 08/10/16 at 07:56:49

You may have a weak battery...

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by batman on 08/10/16 at 19:37:21

your GS500 fires every 360 degrees (2cyl) the savage crank has to turn720 degrees . which one do you thing will bang first?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by sauvage on 08/10/16 at 23:21:19

@Batman, I didn't think of that.
@Serowbot, I'll stick a multimeter on it too bad it's such a pain to do easily, I suspect the battery is fine but I cannot be sure.
@verslagen1, plugs good, only done 3,000kms air filter seems ok.

OK here's a recording of a typical start up. The bike has just come back fro a 20 minute journey maybe sat for 15 minutes but still quite warm. I am giving it no choke and a tiny bit of throttle, maybe 1/8th turn.

Notice after it starts it's idling at it's normal speed no problem but if I blip the throttle, the revs drop down, I give it a second larger blip and it slows down to the point of stopping!

https://youtu.be/fsNcouaBQ_0

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Dave on 08/11/16 at 05:07:56

That sounds pretty darn normal to me.....a bit of that time is the engine turning over while the decompression solenoid is active.

You might try not opening the throttle at all and see if it starts any faster. When the throttle is completely closed it makes more vacuum and can pull the fuel out of the float bowl easier.

If it is a cold start and you are using the enrichment knob, don't open the throttle until after the bike starts.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by sauvage on 08/11/16 at 14:49:12

OK thanks. What about the way that the engine speeds drops way down after a throttle blip, and an extra large blip causes the motor to cut out! you can hear that at the end of the recording. Is that normal? This is a warm engine.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by stewmills on 08/11/16 at 14:57:20

Dave knows better than I, but have you considered turning up your idle speed just a smidgen?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Kris01 on 08/11/16 at 16:26:08

Stock carb jets?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by batman on 08/11/16 at 17:45:57

Tuned your air screw,done the white spacer mod?

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Dave on 08/11/16 at 18:48:09

When you blip the throttle...you are putting the engine in a place it really doesn't like to be. The open throttle results in the engine speeding up - but then you let the throttle slam shut......and this results in a high engine vacuum and very little fuel flow, as the slide is closed and the tapered needle has dropped into the jet and the only fuel flow is from the idle circuit - and the resulting lean mixture doesn't want to ignite very well......but once the engine speed slows down and the high vacuum condition goes away, then the fuel mixture goes back to normal and the engine returns to a normal idle.

One thing you can do is avoid blipping the throttle, as that really isn't anything that helps the engine to function (just a "Hey notice me" kind of a move that the biker dudes like to do as they arrive). You can also make sure the idle fuel mixture is set properly and not on the lean side....and you can raise the idle speed a bit.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by sauvage on 08/11/16 at 19:39:09

OK thanks for all those great replies, yeah I'm not a throttle blipper, I just had the mistaken belief that it might indicate something but I have learned some new stuff today. All stock carbs, I'll most certainly wait till I get a dyna muffler on it before I do anything to the jets. I'm still not used to the frightening sound the starter makes while starting. I will look up the idle screw mix.

Title: Re: seems to take longer than normal to start
Post by Dave on 08/12/16 at 04:44:44

45574340575153360 wrote:

I will look up the idle screw mix.

The "idle screw mix" is not something you should just crank open 1.5 turns because someone else did.....it needs to be adjusted by ear for your bike and the elevation where you ride. This is a "fine tuning", and it needs to be adjusted....not copied. For the Savage....if you need to open the fuel screw more than 2 turns for the best running....you need a larger pilot jet. If the screw is only out less than 1.5 turns (or can be turned all the way in and the bike still runs), you need a smaller pilot jet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g[/media]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw[/media]