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Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 09:05:39

Title: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 09:05:39

I obviously have strong opinions. I, like everyone else, believe that MY opinions are based in something more honest and tangible than fantasy. I post what I believe are well worded , complete thoughts, hypothetical situations, links to information , like Iserbyt,a source who is unimpeachable, who points out what I have stated. Yet, people who would say that they are reasonable and are honest and are only wanting to know the truth choose to pretend that I am somehow a crackpot, when I can Document that the schools were literally sabotaged. Understanding Why isn't even hard, IF one has the stomach for seeing a very dystopic view of the world.

The POINT is, I think I have provided compelling evidence that should have been looked at and would have changed people's minds IF in fact they Wanted to Be Right, not just feel right.

Seeming is not the same as actually Being.

Esse quam videri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Esse_quam_videri
Esse quam videri is a Latin phrase meaning "To be, rather than to seem" (to be). It has been used as a motto by a ...

It's not possible for those who see themselves as serfs and obliged To the government rather than seeing the government as servants to understand what I say.
They exist to do what they are supposed to do,hence the phrase
Public Servant.
Do maids, cooks, gardeners, etc. Have more rights than the landowner who Pays them?

And that's another example of a question that should raise eyebrows and cause some internal dialogue for most of you.
I think we should talk about what that question says.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/16 at 10:09:27

The POINT is, I think I have provided compelling evidence that should have been looked at and would have changed people's minds IF in fact they Wanted to Be Right, not just feel right.

Jog, I consider myself an admirer of yours and I appreciate the work you put into your post. I read most of them, some of the links I open some of the links I do not. And you have brought up some interesting points. I think you're one of the few people that truly understand the real meaning and history behind the Second Amendment for example.

But, as I've said before, you seem predisposed to blame conspiracies for practically every major incident that occurs. You see purposeful connections between people and events where none exist. and while you complain that no one really evaluates what you post, the opposite is also true. You will not listen to logic and common sense about some of your theories. We've gone through the 9/11 thing a thousand times. We've gone through the Reagan Bush Hincley connection a thousand times. it doesn't matter what facts you are presented with, when you get an idea in your head that there's a connection between people or events you will never allow yourself to see the impossibility.

so the result is sometimes the excellent ideas and points that you have are immediately discarded. is that fair? No of course it's not. But I confessed to doing it myself. And like I said I'm a fan of yours and I read a lot of what you post.

i'm not asking you to change or to do anything different. I'm just giving you my opinion on your last post.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/08/16 at 10:39:36

Jog buddy, I also feel what web said is correct, in the sense as how I/we see it.
It is easier to look at history, and fill in the blanks, than it is to predict the future based on so many variables, and uncertainties.
Sure, a broken watch is right twice a day, does that mean it is working?

I'll leave you with this thought bub, expectations are premeditated resentments....

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 11:00:45

So, when second in command of part of the department of education writes about
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America
I'm the conspiracy theorist.

Regardless of WHY such bad decisions were made, like the trade deals.. I mean Really, Come On, does Anyone believe they have been good for America?
Then why are they not being dumped?
Im hearing blahh blahh blahhh..

You guys explain why when change was made in school and the end result was a sorrier outcome they never Undid the change.
And don't kid me, I was in school and watched the news and saw it happen. I was doing Fine in math, until they Fixed it. Modern Math didn't torpedo Just me..
So, rather than, once again, patting me on the head and walking off,

Go read what Iserbyt said.
Check out what
John Taylor gatto said.

Think for yourself a while.

Howcumizzit that we get screwed every time they do a trade deal?
And no matter how pissed off the voters are, no matter how strongly the people who p a ssed the unpopular legislation get swept out,
The Legislation Never Gets REPEALED...

how do you Not question what is so OBVIOUSLY telling?

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by oldNslow on 08/08/16 at 11:18:33

Quote:

You guys explain why when change was made in school and the end result was a sorrier outcome they never Undid the change.

Because that sorry outcome is considered SUCCESS by the folks running the education industry. Aint nothing that needs fixing as far as they are concerned.

http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/how-a-generation-lost-its-common-culture/

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/16 at 12:28:56

Think for yourself a while.

I have. I do. I did.

I know tons of educators. My son's wife's family is full of teachers. Literally, I bet they have a dozen in their family.

They ALL think education is better today than it's ever been. You can't argue that point with them. Educators are like politicians and movie stars; they live in a bubble and can't see out of it. Educators are almost all liberal as well and education administrators make a very good living out of the business. Look at universities.

Again, what you see are thousands of individuals responding to forces in the same basic manner because it benefits them as individuals. it's not a grand conspiracy from the top down.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 14:35:48

You don't Really believe the bank teller knows what the federal reserve is, do you?
Teachers are NOT who I asked you to listen to, except for
Gatto. But, you hide from the things that I'm pointing at, and pretend that you know.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 14:37:52

4B7574786A7677190 wrote:

Quote:

You guys explain why when change was made in school and the end result was a sorrier outcome they never Undid the change.

I came up real short.. but, I was educated in the public school.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by oldNslow on 08/08/16 at 15:14:06

Quote:

I came up real short.. but, I was educated in the public school.

Yeah, me too. But I graduated from HS in 1965. Things were a bit different 50 years ago.

I don't remember where I read it, or who said it, but I saw a comment not long ago that sort of put things in perspective. Went something like this " They used to teach Latin and Greek in High School in this country. Now they teach remedial English in college." :(

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 15:31:19

TRUTH,
But I'm a goofball.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 04:27:52

I don't remember where I read it, or who said it, but I saw a comment not long ago that sort of put things in perspective. Went something like this " They used to teach Latin and Greek in High School in this country. Now they teach remedial English in college."

That's due to the misguided and "living in a bubble" effect of liberal educators.

There's a ton of reasons for the decline of education, but a grand conspiracy driven from the top down to turn America into mush-brains over a period of decades, ain't one of them.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by oldNslow on 08/10/16 at 05:37:05

1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote:

Just to be clear, I never said anything about any kind of a "vast conspiracy." There is no secret cabal directing this. However it is not the result of a bunch of random events either. It is ideologically driven and quite deliberate. Teachers are the products of an educational system that is designed to produce a workforce with a particular view of things, and the curriculums are designed to reinforce that viewpoint. The folks that attend our elite universities are not stupid, they are simply, as professor Deenan says :

What our educational system aims to produce is cultural amnesia, a wholesale lack of curiosity, history-less free agents, and educational goals composed of content-free processes and unexamined buzz-words like “critical thinking,” “diversity,” “ways of knowing,” “social justice,” and “cultural competence.”

Our students are the achievement of a systemic commitment to producing individuals without a past for whom the future is a foreign country, cultureless ciphers who can live anywhere and perform any kind of work without inquiring about its purposes or ends, perfected tools for an economic system that prizes “flexibility” (geographic, interpersonal, ethical).

That doesn't happen by accident. Education in this country is intimately intertwined with politics, and funded by politicians. It has been infected with progressive ideals and agendas for at least the past 75 or so years. That isn't a "conspiracy" as I think JOG defines it, but it didn't just happen either. And "living in a bubble" dosen't entirely explain it.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by Serowbot on 08/10/16 at 07:09:06

So, most journalists, educators, and scientists, are liberal...

Does the liberal make the job, or does the job make the liberal?...

In general, more education makes you more liberal.
Conservatives blame brainwashing,.. liberals credit broader thought.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by oldNslow on 08/10/16 at 07:27:27

Quote:

In general, more education makes you more liberal.

Exactly. That is precisely the point of our present education.system. And it works quite well. Liberal thought isn't a genetic trait. It has to be learned.

Quote:

. Conservatives blame brainwashing,.. liberals credit broader thought.

Like how they( liberals) are just naturally smarter than us ignorant, uneducated conservatives.
That's pretty broad minded. ::)

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by pg on 08/10/16 at 09:19:02

6E786F726A7F72691D0 wrote:

In general, more education makes you more liberal.
Conservatives blame brainwashing,..

Wow, I have found a talking point with which I agree with Bot. Although, it is an additional period of time of further indoctrination.

However, I have a graduate degree and I have been steadfast in my beliefs. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Best regards,

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 09:49:07

Journalists and educators have degrees but its a stretch to call those groups educated. Scientists are a broader category.

but it's a good question, which came first the chicken or the egg so to speak.

It's virtually impossible to be a conservative "journalist" in today's media. and every educator I know is a hard-core left liberal. Outside of her engineering professors, my daughters four years at University of Kansas had an abundance of liberals; they didn't teach as much as try to indoctrinate. All the stuff you read about college professors going on and on about their favorite liberal cause is 100% true.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 09:50:53

The flipside of that is my particular field. I run into very, very few people who do what I do who are liberals. they just can't survive in my world .

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/16 at 09:51:19

4355425F47525F44300 wrote:

Most teachers are liberal due to liberal interference in the schooling system causing the thought process to be screwed up.
Have you seen new math lately? There's some really screwed up thinking.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 10:32:38

C'mon you guys, just look at the 14-18 grades of education....
You have all these conservative students and teachers calling for restricting speech and ideology on the campus that run counter to their own beliefs, prejudice, and truths....
Now that shows you sumtin, don't it ;D

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by Paraquat on 08/10/16 at 11:01:36

I have two Associates and I'm in a Bachelor's program now.

You guys have witnessed, first hand, my beliefs.

--Steve

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 12:22:50

6F5E4D5E4E4A5E4B3F0 wrote:

I have two Associates and I'm in a Bachelor's program now.

You guys have witnessed, first hand, my beliefs.

--Steve

Well maybe if you spent some more time vetting who they are, more than their figure, you wouldn't find yourself single, again ::)

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 14:13:48

3B2D3A273F2A273C480 wrote:

to me, it's become more about nuance, Conservatives don't get nuance, they like to simplify things and solutions to things, Liberals often get too concerned with nuance and want to try to protect too many little variations of things.

Education, especially higher education, exposes you to more and more nuanced things, and you get exposed to a crazy number of potentials and possibilities with all kinds of theories meant to tackle everything from the dark matter, string theory, psychological, sociology, history itself is questioned with new discoveries that enlighten our understanding of the past. It becomes harder to value this over that when everything is in a state of flux that is just as valid as the previous state of flux it was in. so discrimination becomes harder, not like prejudice, but discrimination, you can see how one little thing affects all these other things and can change our understanding all over again,

one thing is constant though, Einstein is right. :P

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/16 at 18:18:35

here's a ton of reasons for the decline of education, but a grand conspiracy driven from the top down to turn America into mush-brains over a period of decades, ain't one of them.

That's an opinion. It's not been challenged. Unless and until you reach for information that Would challenge it, you can not be certain.
Who has the position to make Iserbyt WRONG?
Who, aside from me, has even bothered to expose themselves to anything that would contradict that opinion?
Until people take the time to consider the facts that She is reporting, AFTER BEING NEAR THE TOP OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, ..

What makes you smarter?
And why do you believe what you believe?
Is it just too much for there to actually be an evil hand?
What did ike say?
Why would Henry Ford be against the federal reserve so strongly, but YOU can't see it?
And, being so wrong there, ablind to it, you're wrong about the education system, too.
You're stuck believing that such conspiracies are impossible.
Yet, Hitlery is not in jail.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 18:39:31

6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:

do you ever not attack Hillary in a post? even if it's not about her? like when you are responding in other parts of this forum are you like, "oh and remember, Hillary is evil!!! don't forget that torque is 20nm

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 20:00:00

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 20:26:26

0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:

Could we say conservatives like to think in absolutes, liberals like to think they are more open minded?

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 20:27:42

0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:

Could we say conservatives like to think in absolutes, liberals like to think they are not that rigid?

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by Serowbot on 08/10/16 at 22:06:35

Absolutely... :-?

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/16 at 23:52:48

I've typed so many nuanced concepts and watched nobody deal with it. The left are no more cerebral, and pretend that they have some
High ground.

Avoid the information that I have begged you to expose yourselves to and pretend that you're above it all.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by raydawg on 08/11/16 at 03:45:04

302F292E33340535053D2F23685A0 wrote:

Jog, no one is pretending......
I think that is where your reasoning gets you into trouble ( with yourself ).
Perception and belief is scripted through everyone's own prejudice and life experience.
Yes, much of our prejudice is taught, be it liberal, or conservative, or between.
To first challenge, remove, and instill another belief, is a great challenge, as it can go to our very core.
In a perfect world, that would be awesome, however, in this world, our leaders and teachers WON'T even do by example, for ridicule awaits those who do.....

When I came to the conclusion, boys can cry, other realizations followed, macho isn't smart.

So I guess I am trying to say we all have different stimuli.
This is the key factor that drives our brain function.
It is most controversial today re: transgender issues, etc.
However, all of us are driven by that fact.
It is no different than experiencing a different view,and life experience, from being Black.
It's real Jog, and to say something like the White perspective, is "trump" darn, I am beginning to hate that world....
Is wrong, only because white men crafted our constitution, etc.

I believe my draw to faith, is my stimuli as well, yet, many try to deny me my right, or restrict it, based on their prejudice they learned elsewhere....
So I am being judged unfairly, or, unjustly....
This happens everyday against everybody.
All we can do is to not take everything personally, for it will never change bro.

Title: Re: I get frustrated
Post by WebsterMark on 08/11/16 at 06:30:42

By Daniel Henninger
Aug. 10, 2016 6:49 p.m. ET
The decision to default one’s vote to Hillary Clinton comes in many forms. She is the lesser of two evils. She is the devil we know.

By all accounts, hell is still hell. Before volunteering to spend four years in it, voters about to commit the sin of despair might consider the consequences of a default vote.

The greatest is the economy. Mrs. Clinton will contribute nothing to lift the flatlined aspirations of the eight Obama years.

There is also the matter of Clinton mores, revealed again Monday in a Washington Post story about the way former Sen. Clinton dealt with the economic plight of upstate New Yorkers. Most relevant was the account of Sen. Clinton pushing federal money to the Corning company on behalf of its emissions-reduction technology:

“Corning’s chief executive co-hosted a 2015 fundraiser for her. The company paid her $225,500 in 2014 to speak to Corning executives. Corning also has given more than $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation, its records show.”

Also worth reading are details of the $315,000 eBay gave her for a 20-minute speech last year, but we digress. Our subject is what surely will be the decline and final fall of the American higher-education system under a President Clinton.

The onslaught of political correctness that overwhelmed American campuses the past year may not come up in the presidential debates. But for many voters the campus pillaging of free speech symbolizes a country off the rails.

The New York Times recently ran a piece describing how colleges and universities are experiencing a pull back in alumni giving because of the PC madness. Donations at Amherst fell 6.5% in the last fiscal year. A small-college fundraising organization named Staff reports that giving in fiscal 2016 is down 29% from the year before.

Enraged alumni vent frustration throughout the piece, but one in particular asks, “Where did this super-correctness come from?” There is an answer to that question.

A Clinton victory will empower, for a very long time, the forces now putting at risk one of the country’s incomparable strengths, its system of higher education.

What happened can be explained in one word: diversity.

This is an idea that degraded into a set of destructive obsessions. Those obsessions then became official, destructive federal policy.

At its inception a few decades back, “diversity” described American social structures absorbing new immigrants, alongside blacks and women via affirmative-action commitments. Yes, the immigrant influx is part of the presidential debate, but it is not the subject of this column. Only one political mess a week.

When the schools’ presidents began to create offices of diversity affairs, alumni and trustees waved them in as the right thing to do. Bureaucratize an idea, though, and what do you get? More of it than any normal person could want. It is not an overstatement to say that diversity offices are now running American higher education.

Higher-ed’s trade newspaper, the Chronicle of Higher Education, publishes a yearly supplement called “Diversity in Academe.” Its May cover story was “Who Sets a College’s Diversity Agenda?” The most telling piece inside was: “Auditing Diversity: An interest in assessments is rising as officials strive to show they are committed.”

The National Center for Education Statistics reports the U.S. has more than 7,000 postsecondary Title IV institutions serving some 21 million students. All university administrators know their next job depends on showing evidence of achieving diversity metrics. So they push them, relentlessly. In 20 years, diversity went from an idea to an industry.

Enter the Obama presidency and the cultural left on steroids. In 2011 the Obama Department of Education sent a “Dear Colleague” letter to all higher-ed schools, providing “guidance” on creating sexual-abuse surveillance systems. This is the letter that shut down traditional due process for college students.

For the presidents of these institutions, the “guidance” notice had one key passage. It said that “if a recipient does not come into compliance,” the federal government may “withdraw federal funding.”

Readers of this newspaper do not need more dots connected to understand why nominally sensible college presidents are rolling over like trained puppies to the PC mobs. Resist and Washington will terminate their federal cash flow. None will. All comply. That is raw power.

ADVERTISEMENT

A President Clinton won’t rein in any of this. Accommodating the ascendant anti-intellectual left across America’s campuses is easy, because the institutions’ own leadership—presidents and trustees—don’t care. So why should she?

In fact, using the full “guidance” powers of the federal enforcement agencies inside Justice, Education, Labor and the EPA against the states and private institutions will be a primary and unaccountable weapon of the Clinton presidency.

This administrative federal power is virtually beyond the reach of Congress. The idea that a President Cruz or Kasich will “roll it all back” in 2020 after 12 years of the federal cement drying is just not serious.

The Nov. 8 vote is the last hurdle of accountability for Hillary Clinton. The price of the Clinton default option looks much too high