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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Go ahead, make my day... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1470576195 Message started by WebsterMark on 08/07/16 at 06:23:15 |
Title: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/16 at 06:23:15 This is Ann Coulter at a campaign stop with Paul Ryan's opponent. That's just the backdrop. Her comments apply on a larger, national scale. Argue against her points. Somebody tell me where she's wrong on anything. Ryan supports the Trans Pacific Partnership so that any job that hasn’t already been shipped to Mexico can be sent to Asia. He supports the DREAM Act, or the Leave No Child In Mexico or Central America Behind Act. He opposes a wall on the grounds that, I quote, ‘America is not defined by its borders.’ What does that mean? So if I’m standing in France or Brazil, does that mean I’m really in America? I’m in Wisconsin today—am I really in Paris? What does that mean? Did he get some bad cheese curds? We have drugs and criminals pouring across the border and Paul Ryan’s response is to give us a nonsensical phrase from a Hallmark card: ‘Our Country Is Not Defined By Its Borders.’ Well, I guess a home is not defined by walls, electricity and plumbing, but we still want walls, electricity and plumbing. We not only have immigrants coming in taking jobs, committing crimes, creating victims of illegal alien crime, we also are bringing in immigrants legally who periodically flip out and murder Americans so Donald Trump has a suggestion for how we should not be at mass breakneck speed importing people whose religion teaches them that they should kill us. There’s 7 billion people in the world, we don’t have to take in any of them. Can we at least not take the ones who some percentage of whom are going to flip out and slaughter large numbers of us? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 07:11:41 You know,you start with common sense like that and you're liable to get called names. I've been trying to get the Open Borders crowd to remove their doors. They won't. They somehow believe they have a right to decide who is in Their house, but are unable to understand that the borders are the Doors of our Nation, and we All have a vested interest in how many and what kind of people we allow in. But THEY want to make our decision for us. I well remember the accusation that it was the right, wanting cheap labor, (As IF dems don't own businesses,Ha, ) and the left were supposedly unhappy with the right... but THAT all changed. Nobody has explained how the Titanic survivors were wrong to row past the people crying out to be saved.. when the boat is full, taking on water, needing to be bailed out to stay afloat, adding people is suicide.. But they are ideologues and irrational, and rational people Hate the ones who are wanting in. They HAVE to pretend that the rational people are bad, otherwise they are forced to see their folly. The open border people are screwing themselves and everyone else and NEED to wake up. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/07/16 at 07:30:53 Reality sucks, eh? This is why Trump speak is resonating , too bad the mouth its coming from is suspect and beyond ability to deliver repair. Politicians will take the least path of resistance, look at Hillary, who keeps track of her lies? This political correctness is a shame. It is stifling REAL conversation, as hard as it can be, at times. Unless you get real, you have no right to expect results, just more obfuscated folk, clueless and lost. It will turn against the "system" eventually, as you can only deny reality for a spell, look at addictions as an example....... You can fool yourself only so long, that it isn't doing harm. Many never wake up, as it claims their life from over indulging. REVOLT, now...... Give a look at the LIBERTARIAN candidates, it is the only shot we really have at the moment. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Serowbot on 08/07/16 at 11:24:07 I don't think even Ms. Coulter believes what she says... She just makes money from it... :-? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/16 at 14:07:59 Wow, that's a pretty persuasive argument you made there.... |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 17:31:29 It's the careful analysis and dissection of each idea, using well thought out and complete thoughts, so masterfully presented as he points out the faults AND explains What thinking Does make sense. I'm forever humbled by the masters of logic and their abilities to surgically open up and expose the faults as they inject flawlessly the right thinking way to look at things. I'm just blown Away. Honored just to be allowed to read such brilliantly executed analyses of all things politic. I'll bet that Muppet modeled that mortarboard majestically as he audaciously ascended the steps and proceeded to the podium to be so deservedly delivered the diploma declaring his development in and mastery of making nuts up and pretending it's worth reading. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/07/16 at 18:19:49 I use to give some change to those holding up signs at the stop light/off ramp. Until I saw a guy with one leg at a gas station. He sat out front. He had a plastic portable gas can sitting beside him. He would ask for money, so he could get some gas for his car, he ran out..... It was a good hook. I was gonna give him a few bucks on my way out from paying for my gas. He was standing up, on crutches, his back turned toward me, as I walked toward him. He turned. But not before I saw him quickly roll some fresh bills onto this 3 inch wad, he jammed into his pocket. I just stopped and looked at him, eye contact.... He shrugged, bent over, retrieved his empty gas can, turned his back on me and left..... I have never given any money to another beggar since. I have given food, clothes, but no money. What does this have to do with this post, you wonder? Same thing. You don't have to engage, with people who really aren't engaging, themselves. Expect nothing, and go on...... Not worth the time of day. It has served me well, when I remember to use it. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 18:24:32 Upstaged by a SHRUG? I'm crushed. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/16 at 18:52:28 Nope Ray, you call them out. You stay on them, even though you know the outcome: they'll run away. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 19:20:42 I'd rather them articulate a logical argument. I'd rather see a genuine dissection of the points, and rational points made in opposition. But, not gonna happen. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by pg on 08/07/16 at 19:28:15 7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIquaRNsT8[/media] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIquaRNsT8 :-/ Best regards |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/07/16 at 19:29:47 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
Jog, no one, none, can ever venture, or udder anything to the contrary, about you. You stake some strange ground, yes, but your sincerity can not be questioned...... I'm sorry, and sad too, that dialogue isn't the real quest around here, so it seems. It could be a lot better to exchange ideas, etc, but again, this format leaves a lot to desire, and its fraught with assumptions and misunderstandings..... Is it our fault we expect pigs to fly, even tho the lipstick was gorgeous ;D |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/07/16 at 19:51:40 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
I hear you Web, and I think this is part of Trumps game plan. Yes, they practise classic deflection, slight of hand, obfuscation..... And sadly its they, themselves, that often lose their grasp on reality, and can no longer discern the truth, but believe what they have said, so many times, it becomes truth. I have been charged many times as believing in a fairy tale. Its only because these people who have no relationship, with my Christ, as to why they can't understand. I can't explain all of it, heck no, it is beyond my ability, and we have absolutely nothing to compare it to. Yes, it is extremely abstract, yet, it satisfies me in a manner that nothing, has ever come close to, or as sustainable. Yet, they assign to me folly, based on their own belief, and can't see their own intolerance, and hypocrisy, that they have no qualms about charging others with such traits.... Oh well, how did your barbecue go? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/08/16 at 18:27:55 1F2D2A3B3C2D3A05293A23480 wrote:
Here's the problem, This is all leaning towards a nationalistic narrow minded and misunderstanding point of view. The whole borders don't make a country thing, well, myopically yes, they do make a country, but, does not America's greatness overflow it's borders? Can you see the Idea of America as more than simply a landmass? maybe you can't, idk, and none of that takes away from the idea that borders are good, but they aren't they only thing that defines America are they? So yeah, that's a weak defense of a confusing statement, but there you go :p First, America is great, but yes, we've ALWAYS had our own problems, has that ever stopped us from taking in immigrants and refuges? Ask a Cuban. So saying that we need to stop all immigration legal or illegal because they might be criminals and cause problems is kind of like punishing them all for the actions of a few, and she did mention LEGAL immigrants not just illegal. But it's all based in fear, fear of the few that are criminals, well as is used in the gun control argument, you aren't going to stop those, wall, no wall, the criminals making money from coming here with drugs or cheap labor or sex trafficking, etc... they will find a way to keep coming here to keep making money, and while they are here they will continue their criminal activity. you might slow them down, maybe, but if we can't do anything about guns, why do anything about illegal immigration? more fear mongering " Can we at least not take the ones who some percentage of whom are going to flip out and slaughter large numbers of us?" what percentage is that? what percentage would be acceptable? She is right that the data is crazy unorganized and really hard to find. But again, the main issue I have with it is her tone, her fear based motivation, ooooh look out for that brown person, or that other brown person. all the brown people are criminals and trying to kill us!!! she NOT ONCE mentions the main way illegal aliens get here, OVER STAYING LEGAL VISAS. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 19:23:51 e NOT ONCE mentions the main way illegal aliens get here, OVER STAYING LEGAL VISAS. Uh huhh, |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/16 at 19:24:41 Lost, I give you credit for at least attempting to refute. Of course we see the idea that America is greater than it's boarders. In fact, can't think of very many, if any other country, with the near universal understanding of something like the American Dream. Everyone knows what that means. But that dream relies on the American identity remaining uniquely American. Past immigrants assimilated. The question today is: is that still happening. I and many others, say not to the same degree. Ask the survivors of the Boston Marathon bombers if their parents assimilated. Ask the survivors of the San Berdino shooting if that couple were worthy of this nation. And you liberals always play the "fear" card as if that's a bad thing. Yes, I fear allowing to many immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries and specifically from countries with a history of extremists. I don't have a problem at all limiting immigration from those countries. The funny thing is you like to say we're fearful of immigrants but you liberals are donwright terrified of the 2nd amendment. I believe you'd rather let in 100,000 immigrants from Syria than let a single white bubba from Alabama buy a gun! Let me paraphrase you. "ooohhh look, that Southerner's gonna buy a gun and shoot me" You're fearful of a woman seeing a sonogram of her unborn baby. You're so terrified of Ann Coulter, she usually doesn't get in a public speech (and never at public university) without protest. Illegal aliens get here many ways, but I doubt the majority are due to overstaying visas. Are you saying we have 12 million illegal aliens simply due to visa expiration dates?! |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 19:31:54 Demonstrating good sense is an expression of fear? Ignoring the PROVEN HISTORY of the Muslim immigrants in Europe is proving bravery? Ignorance is strength? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/08/16 at 21:08:29 1F2D2A3B3C2D3A05293A23480 wrote:
Getting that idea about America is what allows Paul Ryan to artfully dodge a tricky political question. So pointing out a few terrorists actions, but you left off Dylan Roof, Tim McVeigh, the Unibomber, Charles Manson, etc.... so does a few bad apples prove your point when we 'native' Americans do at leasts as bad already? The way you put it with the emphasis on "countries" and not "religion" that's more palatable. But still kinda stinks of discrimination and at the same time it validates the terrorists efforts, you know, making you afraid and all. well this here "you liberal" isn't terrified of the 2nd amendment, and I don't have a problem with reasonable controls either, a simple registration system would curtail a lot of straw purchases of guns, it could be done on a state wide system, not federal, idk, yes, there's problems with that idea but I'm not against trying out some things. and if they go too far, there's a vote every 2 years. I don't think FORCING someone to see a sonogram is necessary to the abortion process. it's the forcing part that gets me on that, I think that's overreaching. I don't get to speak in public arenas either, no one knows who the hell I am, I wish the same was true with Ann Coulter, she's a narrow-minded fear/drama queen, I think the bleach from her hair dye is getting to her brain. Just another conservative who doesn't get nuance and evolution of ideas through time. Stats are hard to find and many are complicated for some reason, breaking down this and that until it's all way too confusing, but the Wall Street Journal reports that 40% of illegal immigrants are from overstaying their visas ( http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323916304578404960101110032 ) So I guess it's not the main way, but still a pretty big chunk. so I guess that's like 4.5 million illegals because of visas. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/08/16 at 21:09:55 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
are you terrified? then they've won. you're their victim and they didn't even have to do anything to you. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 21:39:29 Im not even slightly scared. I Won't BE scared, as long as idiots don't import people who are SWORN to kill everyone who ISN'T Muslim. I'm not AFRAID of fire, until I see one in the kitchen. I have extinguishers, to deal with it.. How UNWISE are you? Are you so eaten up with white guilt and some PC ideas that you would import people who HATE everything about America? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Serowbot on 08/08/16 at 22:34:59 I just retired... Lost is in charge... Lost,... you need to get a another Savage... That's not a requirement,.. it would just help insure that you don't leave... ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/16 at 05:02:56 So pointing out a few terrorists actions, but you left off Dylan Roof, Tim McVeigh, the Unibomber, Charles Manson, etc.... so does a few bad apples prove your point when we 'native' Americans do at leasts as bad already? No, doesn’t prove your point or disprove mine. I can’t pick my family, but I can pick who I let in my house. You do the same I’m sure. The idea that we must have immigration as some type of testimony as to ‘who we are’ is wrong. The way you put it with the emphasis on "countries" and not "religion" that's more palatable. But still kinda stinks of discrimination and at the same time it validates the terrorists efforts, you know, making you afraid and all I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear. Let me remove any doubt: A) No Muslim immigrants from countries with clear ties to extreme terrorist activities. B) From any other country, a very heighten and extra comprehensive background check on any Muslim immigrant applying for entry. Here, try this on for size. Imagine a few European countries had a resurgence of Nazism. Imagine they talked about Nazism as a religion of peace, that a few skinheads didn’t represent true Nazism which was simply a series of believes including anyone not a Nazi was classified as an infidel. Now imagine some came here illegally and began shooting predominantly black or Jewish areas of the country. (Forget Jewish areas, you guys wouldn’t care about that….) So, if that happened, are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me you welcome all skinheads with open arms? That our nation’s borders were just lines on a map, not real boarders? well this here "you liberal" isn't terrified of the 2nd amendment, and I don't have a problem with reasonable controls either, a simple registration system would curtail a lot of straw purchases of guns, it could be done on a state wide system, not federal, idk, yes, there's problems with that idea but I'm not against trying out some things. and if they go too far, there's a vote every 2 years. 200 murders in St. Louis last year. How many by guns bought by 'straw purchases'? I don't think FORCING someone to see a sonogram is necessary to the abortion process. it's the forcing part that gets me on that, I think that's overreaching. But forcing the Catholic Church to disregard centuries of deep held beliefs and pony up for abortion pills is not overreaching??? I don't get to speak in public arenas either, no one knows who the hell I am, I wish the same was true with Ann Coulter, she's a narrow-minded fear/drama queen, I think the bleach from her hair dye is getting to her brain. Just another conservative who doesn't get nuance and evolution of ideas through time. Stats are hard to find and many are complicated for some reason, breaking down this and that until it's all way too confusing, but the Wall Street Journal reports that 40% of illegal immigrants are from overstaying their visas ( http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323916304578404960101110032 ) So I guess it's not the main way, but still a pretty big chunk. so I guess that's like 4.5 million illegals because of visas. I’m not sure of the numbers either but we’re splitting hairs. I’m going out on a limb here but I’m guessing the number of people capable of supporting themselves for six months on a ‘6 month tourist visa’ is pretty small. They are illegal immigrants who happen to be a little smarter than those who swim a river or jump a fence. (I’m sorry, I mean cross that imaginary national line which doesn’t define us any way…..) |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/09/16 at 05:09:10 Appreciate the well presented argument L A. I think the idea behind restricting people from this region is until they can be better screened, not permanent. However, I am not sure if any available data base exist, to the majority of them. So I don't feel it's a viable method to ensure terrorist free immigrants. Also, we have imposed restrictions on people traveling from known regions into our country who MIGHT be ferrying a catastrophic disease. I might offer a terrorist is bringing a disease with him, mental illness is a disease, yes? So this trump idea has grounds, so that argument is not genuine. I agree his delivery of ideas is draconian, however... |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/09/16 at 05:12:35 Wow web, really good arguments.... I think I'll just let you two attorneys handle this case >:( |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/16 at 09:44:52 I would like to know the difference between Nazism and Islamic fundamentalism is..... |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/09/16 at 12:07:18 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
ISIS is mostly killing Muslims, so looks like there is no safety anywhere huh? or could it be that they aren't REALLY MUSLIM to begin with and are just crazy fanatics in a death cult. Muslims don't hate America, just ask the 3.3 million of them that are already here. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/09/16 at 12:40:18 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
I'll give this a shot, the islamic fundamentalism gets messy though, sorry Nazism is a mostly historical movement that held NATIONALISM (the FIRST part in NA ZI well actually it's three words "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" but the NAZI part comes from the first word and the first part of that word is National (NA) where as the second part is the Socialist part) and NAZI's main identity is a racist one where aryans (whitest of the whites) were the superior race, and Germany thought they were the whitest whites. so this extended into an ultimate nationalistic protectionist ideal (Germany First?? maybe) Hitler was a fascist that thought he was be suited to rule the world (what an ego on that guy) so Nazism is an extreme racism and ethnic/national pride Islamic fundamentalism is and extreme fundamental interpretation of Islam, that actually perverts Islam into whatever is needed to feed the rage individual leaders have towards whatever they feel is harming them, it's maybe a belief that extreme religious purity is the only way to live and everything else deserves to die. but, each individual leader has their own enemy, there's not like a blanket statement that both Boko Haram and ISIS and Al Queda all follow, So it's highly subjective as to what it's all about. But they all don't like outside intervention, they kinda have the same philosophy as Bush, (fight them over there or fight them here) Islamic fundamentalism is a lot harder to deal with because it's not a state, so we can't declare war on it, even though we have somehow.... and it's going to just end up playing whack-a-mole in the middle east, Defeat Al Queda, now there's ISIS, defeat ISIS and Boko Haram will have more people to call on, these people are in misery and they are striking out at whatever they feel is to blame, and they are perverting their own religion to justify their means. Islamice fundamentalism: the perversion of Islam to justify the means and ends of their own extreme fundamental version of Islam (religious purity) trying to instate a theocracy even crazier than Iran. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/09/16 at 13:06:17 784A4D5C5B4A5D624E5D442F0 wrote:
Web, the inline formatting is nice, but I'm not going to be able to keep doing that, going to be some majorly long posts There's a big green statue that might disagree with you "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" and with immigration, we wouldn't be here, America, as we know it today, was FOUNDED by immigrants, immigrants that didn't need any paperwork to come here either, so yes, our immigration policy very much reflects who we were and who we are and who we are willing to become. Notice that poem doesn't say give me your rich, give me your smartest.... The idea of America is that anyone, regardless of class, status, etc... can make a better life HERE, legal and illegal immigrants here are proving that daily! The stats I found on straw purchases indicate that around 40-50% of guns used in a crime are illegally obtained in straw purchases, again, stats are kinda hard to find and are often on biased sites, like the Brady campaign site, or pro gun sites, both with opposing stats. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 04:31:39 Muslims don't hate America, just ask the 3.3 million of them that are already here. This is the frustrating part of dealing with people like you. No one said "Muslims hate America" as in every single Muslim alive must swear to do their part to destroy the great Satan".... You say that's what I think but it's not. The best come back I've heard to the nonsense known as Black Lives Matter is "what reasonable person every said they don't?" |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 04:37:20 01223E390C3F39243E394D0 wrote:
I'll give this a shot, the islamic fundamentalism gets messy though, sorry Nazism is a mostly historical movement that held NATIONALISM (the FIRST part in NA ZI well actually it's three words "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" but the NAZI part comes from the first word and the first part of that word is National (NA) where as the second part is the Socialist part) and NAZI's main identity is a racist one where aryans (whitest of the whites) were the superior race, and Germany thought they were the whitest whites. so this extended into an ultimate nationalistic protectionist ideal (Germany First?? maybe) Hitler was a fascist that thought he was be suited to rule the world (what an ego on that guy) so Nazism is an extreme racism and ethnic/national pride Islamic fundamentalism is and extreme fundamental interpretation of Islam, that actually perverts Islam into whatever is needed to feed the rage individual leaders have towards whatever they feel is harming them, it's maybe a belief that extreme religious purity is the only way to live and everything else deserves to die. but, each individual leader has their own enemy, there's not like a blanket statement that both Boko Haram and ISIS and Al Queda all follow, So it's highly subjective as to what it's all about. But they all don't like outside intervention, they kinda have the same philosophy as Bush, (fight them over there or fight them here) Islamic fundamentalism is a lot harder to deal with because it's not a state, so we can't declare war on it, even though we have somehow.... and it's going to just end up playing whack-a-mole in the middle east, Defeat Al Queda, now there's ISIS, defeat ISIS and Boko Haram will have more people to call on, these people are in misery and they are striking out at whatever they feel is to blame, and they are perverting their own religion to justify their means. Islamice fundamentalism: the perversion of Islam to justify the means and ends of their own extreme fundamental version of Islam (religious purity) trying to instate a theocracy even crazier than Iran. [/quote] Okay. I see very little difference. Most people are proud of their country (Michelle Obama excluded of course) and people tend to think their particular race has value. So Nazis took this to the extreme. They perverted a believe system ascribed to by many. So to my point, you'd $hit your little brains out if Trump were to say we're going to welcome skinheads from Germany, but yet put Hilary on some kind of pedestal when she says we need to embrace immigrants from Syria. So far, haven't read of any skinheads running down 100 Jews in Paris..... |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 04:49:37 The stats I found on straw purchases indicate that around 40-50% of guns used in a crime are illegally obtained in straw purchases, again, stats are kinda hard to find and are often on biased sites, like the Brady campaign site, or pro gun sites, both with opposing stats. Actually, its fairly easy to find. Less than 2% up until the late 90's and then less than 1% thereafter. This is a demonstration of typical liberal dishonestly. Somewhere today, Hilary Clinton will once again make the Democratic call for gun control, closing the gunshow loophold and once again, NBC Nightly news will report that like it's gospel and salvation to all would come if it wasn't for that evil monster, the NRA. Of course, anyone with a brain already knows guns used to murder rarely come from this mysterious gun show loophold. I really think the awareness of the average liberal is so low, if Hilary announced she was going to introduce a major initiative to reduce crime and called it her MCI plant and then at her announcement said her plan was to Make Crime Illegal, that the networks would report that as some kind of breakthrough and she'd get elected in a landslide! |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by HovisPresley on 08/10/16 at 05:01:54 "Actually, its fairly easy to find. Less than 2% up until the late 90's and then less than 1% thereafter." Link? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 09:40:10 Look it up. Whatever source I link will be trashed anyway so do it yourself. Will only take a minute. And as a personal observation, I've been to countless shows and I don't recall seeing the most common criminals who use guns in the US at these shows. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/16 at 11:34:35 734146575041566945564F240 wrote:
So... no democrats?... how can you tell? ;D |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 13:06:25 576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:
here's a source "In June of 2000, ATF published a study of 1,530 firearms trafficking investigations conducted during the period July 1996 – December 1998. That study, Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearm Traffickers,6 found that straw purchasing was the most common channel of illegal gun trafficking, accounting for almost one-half (46%) of all investigations, and associated with nearly 26,000 illegally trafficked firearms.7" source: http://smartgunlaws.org/straw-purchases-policy-summary/ Here's another: "Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it." source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html and I can find many many articles about many trials against various pawn shops, Gander Mountain, and other legitimate firearm dealers for straw purchase selling - straw selling? and there is literature from pro gun lobbies about training on how to spot a straw buyer, and various states have started getting more involved with enforcing the laws against this as well, all of this is fairly recent too. here's a fact sheet pdf from the National Shooting Sports Foundation saying "don't lie for the other guy" https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/strawPurchase.pdf which all that is an ATF effort to reduce straw purchases and there really are quite a number of criminal cases about straw purchases that you can google, so I'm doubting your 1% figure as any kind of realistic statistic sorry I didn't supply all this before, arguing is getting quite tiresome because we all know it's not going to change anyone's mind anyway so why bother trying to use actual facts and figures to prove anything, you don't care anyway. your stat might be accurate of all straw purchases vs all purchases of guns, while my stats are more about guns USED IN CRIME. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 13:34:44 6F5D5A4B4C5D4A75594A53380 wrote:
I'll give this a shot, the islamic fundamentalism gets messy though, sorry Nazism is a mostly historical movement that held NATIONALISM (the FIRST part in NA ZI well actually it's three words "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" but the NAZI part comes from the first word and the first part of that word is National (NA) where as the second part is the Socialist part) and NAZI's main identity is a racist one where aryans (whitest of the whites) were the superior race, and Germany thought they were the whitest whites. so this extended into an ultimate nationalistic protectionist ideal (Germany First?? maybe) Hitler was a fascist that thought he was be suited to rule the world (what an ego on that guy) so Nazism is an extreme racism and ethnic/national pride Islamic fundamentalism is and extreme fundamental interpretation of Islam, that actually perverts Islam into whatever is needed to feed the rage individual leaders have towards whatever they feel is harming them, it's maybe a belief that extreme religious purity is the only way to live and everything else deserves to die. but, each individual leader has their own enemy, there's not like a blanket statement that both Boko Haram and ISIS and Al Queda all follow, So it's highly subjective as to what it's all about. But they all don't like outside intervention, they kinda have the same philosophy as Bush, (fight them over there or fight them here) Islamic fundamentalism is a lot harder to deal with because it's not a state, so we can't declare war on it, even though we have somehow.... and it's going to just end up playing whack-a-mole in the middle east, Defeat Al Queda, now there's ISIS, defeat ISIS and Boko Haram will have more people to call on, these people are in misery and they are striking out at whatever they feel is to blame, and they are perverting their own religion to justify their means. Islamice fundamentalism: the perversion of Islam to justify the means and ends of their own extreme fundamental version of Islam (religious purity) trying to instate a theocracy even crazier than Iran. [/quote] Okay. I see very little difference. Most people are proud of their country (Michelle Obama excluded of course) and people tend to think their particular race has value. So Nazis took this to the extreme. They perverted a believe system ascribed to by many. So to my point, you'd $hit your little brains out if Trump were to say we're going to welcome skinheads from Germany, but yet put Hilary on some kind of pedestal when she says we need to embrace immigrants from Syria. So far, haven't read of any skinheads running down 100 Jews in Paris..... [/quote] so, first, you have no idea what would make me "$nuts your little brains out" but thanks for insulting and belittling me nonetheless, shows your character are the skin heads refugee skin heads or just normal skin heads? and yeah, there's a little risk that someone with nefarious purposes is going to come into our nation under the guise of being a refugee, but INSIDE our nation we have law enforcement agencies and other ways of keeping track of these people, I"m not against them going through more scrutiny than most immigrants, but a blanket ban, idk, again, just stinks of letting them win, oh and I'm assuming you are referring to the attack in NICE where the Tunsian man used a truck to run over people celebrating Bastile day. First, that man had no known history to any terrorist organization and he wasn't even religious. Now he had some mental health issues that were left unresolved and signs of instability that way, but not terrorism. But he did start to sympathize with ISIS and was on the way to become radicalized, maybe was radicalized when he committed the act, I don't know what was in his mind then, some crazy devotion to religion or just gone crazy, idk He was not a refugee from Syria also, try to get the distinction between REFUGEE and IMMIGRANT clear the key to BOTH Nazism and Islamic Fundamentalism is that they are BOTH EXTREME takes on something that pervert the very essence into a offensive position on it. Patriotism is great, Nationalism, well, maybe a step to far, Religion okay, Fundamentalism, well, maybe too much |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 13:37:44 536166777061764965766F040 wrote:
are you confusing gun shows with straw purchases? they are different things, I'm not arguing about the "gun show loophole" and, ooohhhh you didn't seen any criminals, well, goosh, guess they aren't there, I mean you'd obviously recognize them since they all have neon signs pointing them out... that's what makes being a victim so confusing, couldn't they see the criminal coming???? silly victims |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 08/10/16 at 14:25:23 I'm not going to foray into the gun arguments at all, but rather, return to an early theme. Lack of assimilation into what we have historically thought of as "America" is, to me, the reason that most people either hate, dislike, or distrust Muslims. They don't fit in, mostly. Especially the women in their garb. People naturally like to be around similar people, and Muslims aren't similar in anything, to the rest of "typical Americans". During the wave of immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the typical immigrant was white, European and Christian. Face it - that is the backbone of the U.S., at least so far. I am of Swiss origin. Do I wear leather shorts and that funny looking hat with a feather sticking out? Do folks of any other European origin wear native attire as their everyday dress? In my suburb, we have many high tech companies that employ lots of Indians and Asian immigrants. Do they wear their native attire? No. How many Jewish people, outside of the ultra orthodox groups on the East coast wear their native attire? Almost none. Yet Muslims are different, and most telling ,want to remain different. My next door neighbors are Muslims who have assimilated, and are a very nice family and I view them the same as the white, Catholic family on the other side. But they are rare. The husband owns several high end restaurants that all serve alcohol, but again, that is very unusual. Until and unless Muslims assimilate into traditional American culture, attire and customs, and respect our English common law systems, they will continue to be met with skepticism, distrust, discrimination, and perhaps even outright hatred. The old saying of when in Rome, do as the Romans do is as valid today as it ever was. If you don't want to do that, don't move to Rome. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by LostArtist on 08/10/16 at 14:55:20 4E414D474C414A464156434156240 wrote:
what you got against Little China, or Little Greece, or Italian neighborhoods? There are Plenty of immigrants that haven't "melted" into the melting pot of America. the problem you are having (as you admit) is that Muslim immigration to the US is fairly new, it takes a generation or two, I don't think they've been here all that long in general. just as long as you don't think Muslim and terrorist are synonyms |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/16 at 15:11:29 5774686F5A696F72686F1B0 wrote:
On a recent visit to Spain, we went to dinner at a chinese restaurant. Quite surprisingly, everyone spoke Spanish, and ordered in Spanish. I go to chinatown here the room is abuzz in chinese. So, I think you live a sheltered life if you think all that live here must assimilate. And Lost... I think americans are in general much more forgiving of other cultures. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 15:14:27 Jerry, this is a misnomer. Politics and media are both agenda driven , and sad to say, truth isn't the motivation. I have shared here how I work for the biggest maker of commercial aircraft. Not until I came to work here did I have a clue really to other cultures. Sure. As LA says, little Italy or whatever, as if that really is nothing more than Disneyland being about dreams, it's to make money. Anyway, to get to know these other cultures from all over the world has taught me so much, AND proven the press, etc, wrong, in the way they script scenarios.... I have talked to many Muslims, as well as Hindus, etc, and none of them have been rude, or see my inquisition as a threat, fact is, they welcomed the dialogue. I am hoping this new tolerance toward the Muslim will help extend an more open and honest dialogue about religion as a whole, for here in the states some bad Christians seem to be the exampled herald as fact about believes. At work they make accommodations for prayer, yeah baby. Amen! |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 08/10/16 at 15:17:10 LA - You miss my point. The little European neighborhoods that you mention aren't different in attire, customs, and legal systems from the rest of us. They may have ethnic restaurants, but that's about it. The same applies to my client who owns a Chinese restaurant. He serves Asian (mainly ) food, but he dresses as I do. I don't know if Muslims will ever really want to assimilate. That's the real issue, isn't it? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 17:18:53 69666A606B666D616671646671030 wrote:
No, it's not. How are you using assimilate, to dress, look, behave like us, or to live by our governing rules? |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by WebsterMark on 08/10/16 at 20:05:14 and, ooohhhh you didn't seen any criminals, well, goosh, guess they aren't there, I mean you'd obviously recognize them since they all have neon signs pointing them out... that's what makes being a victim so confusing, couldn't they see the criminal coming???? silly victims Since I live in a major metropolitan area AND one that routinely shows up on the most dangerous cities in American AND I'm not affected by white guilt AND I don't worry about offending people, I'll be more clear: I don't recall seeing any black gangbangers at gun shows. |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/10/16 at 20:31:50 360403121504132C00130A610 wrote:
Well of course not silly rabbit..... They would have to pay for it, not a good place to get caught stealing ;D |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Serowbot on 08/10/16 at 22:30:27 I can always spot my fellow Englishmen,... the bowler hat, and pin-striped suits give us away... Seriously,.. would Canadians scare you if they wore Burka's?... It's not the clothes... When is the last time, a terrorist attack was carried out by a man in a Keffiyeh, or a woman in a Burka?... |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by HovisPresley on 08/11/16 at 04:02:35 Jerry, have you heard of this particular 'type' of immigrant to the USA? The description is as follows: *Part of an international network that deals in arms, smuggling and crime in general. *Have been responsible for a massacre in the USA. *Extremely close-knit organisation, don't welcome outsiders. *All share the same 'branch' of a particular religion. *Primarily associated with violence. *Speak their own language when they are together. *Often have ethnic restaurants. I would suggest that the mafia have killed more US citizens in the USA than any Muslim 'group' or individual. Yes, you don't see many Swiss-Americans wearing lederhosen and a hat with feathers. But there are many women in the USA that wear head scarves for religious reasons, their husbands have beards for religious reasons. They don't assimilate with the 'normal American' way of life, and actively avoid it. And their particular faith comes from Switzerland.... ;D |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by Paraquat on 08/11/16 at 06:19:51 I am 4th generation New Britain, CT. My mom tells of my Polish grandparents who would always try to speak English, do American activities like watch baseball, and try their best to fit it. Unless it was an "adult" conversation, they didn't even speak Polish. They still flocked to a Polish cluster in the town, though. What changed? --Steve |
Title: Re: Go ahead, make my day... Post by raydawg on 08/11/16 at 08:08:42 6051425141455144300 wrote:
Times change Steve. True story, my wife's grandmother never learned English. Spoke only Spanish. When my wife's, mother, had kids, she, being 100% Spanish/Mexican ( btw, spainsh thought they were better than Mexicans.... Go figger) Anyway, she put Caucasian as race on all the birth certificate and would NOT teach them Spanish. She now admits that was wrong, like duh, but she said you were expected, as in norm, to abandon your heritage, or face a stigma leveled on you, she didn't want to saddle her children with this burden.... Is that assimilate Jerry? I say, wrong! I think that is so hedonistic its spooky.... |
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