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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Hot & bothered /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1469399820 Message started by Eddie Picasso on 07/24/16 at 15:36:58 |
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Title: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/24/16 at 15:36:58 Sooo, just about finished my bike. '87 Savage, Changed the pipe, not straight through, but still lets the gas through a lot better, and changed the air filter, which lets the air in much better. As expected, all the classic signs of running lean. Hard to start, lots of back firing, poor throttle response, and running lots hotter than I would like. Standard Mikuni BS40SS (24B10). Can anyone tell me what I need to change in the carb, ie main jet etc, and what the part numbers are for the next 1 / 2 jet sizes / :) upgrades needed? |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 17:28:12 How NOT straight through Is that pipe? What is it? |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/25/16 at 07:34:37 Read through the tech section ,fuel&exhaust,go from there. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/16 at 08:22:22 If that air filter covers the air passages it won't run for crap. Just remove it, see how it acts. The rubber sleeve has to be checked, it's been a common problem. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/25/16 at 15:41:25 Ok, all I really wanted was the parts I needed to replace for a better fuel flow. I figured it was just the main jet needs replacing with a larger one. The pipe is a generic one bought off Ebay with some baffles inside, but pretty much free flowing. I don't really get what is meant by the 'air passages'. The sleeve has been removed, the filter sits on the manifold. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/16 at 16:34:08 Maybe someone will point you to a picture. Otherwise,considering the symptoms, and when it all started, I'd suggest popping that rubber sleeve off and get everything off the end of the carb and see what happens. What's that? 5 minutes? I've explained longer than that. You will understand what air passages I'm talking about, soon as you see the end of the carb. If the rubber sleeve Doesn't have an internal rib that touches the end of the carb, it's okay, if you aren't sure, you should look. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/25/16 at 18:34:06 cone filter& load muffler ,every newbie's dream! |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Dave on 07/26/16 at 05:38:09 725F4D4955545E3A0 wrote:
At the top of the carb inlet, is an oval shaped passage. The stock rubber sleeve clamps on the outside of the inlet, and nothing is blocking the flow of air to the oval opening. If the cone filter blocks the flow of air to that oval passage....the engine won't run worth a darn. Some of the cone filters have a step in the rubber that blocks that oval hole. A Cone filter and free flowing/open exhaust can be very hard to tune on a Savage, and the wrong ones may make it impossible to get a smooth running engine. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/26/16 at 13:26:54 Carb will come off at the weekend to check. I'm pretty sure the cone filter sits outside the manifold, but best to check eh! Also fitted a new Iridium plug, which seems to be helping a bit. On wards and upwards. :) |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/26/16 at 13:31:00 "A Cone filter and free flowing/open exhaust can be very hard to tune on a Savage, and the wrong ones may make it impossible to get a smooth running engine." To be fair the engine is running pretty well, just hotter than I would like and really sluggish. Backfires some but reading elsewhere on here that could be just inevitable. I will keep trying and once sorted will post the solution. Thanks for the help. ;) |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/26/16 at 16:47:18 Eddie.lean motors run hotter, the bike is tuned lean stock,you have added a more open air filter and muffler both of which will make it run even leaner . You need to rejet , to larger sizes,but not knowing what muffler or filter maker you've choose you need a jet kit to try and find what works for you. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/16 at 16:56:38 n. Hard to start, lots of back firing, poor throttle response Sounds like fun.. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Dave on 07/27/16 at 04:44:05 Here is the thread that details the cone filter issue: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347609265 6F425054484943270 wrote:
I am not convinced this assumption is an accurate one. The stock air filter system works pretty well for the stock amount of air that the stock engine can flow. The Cone filter may not actually be any better than the stock system - and the CV carb seems to be a bit difficult to jet properly when the wrong cone filter is used. Most folks install the cone filter for the "look" associated with the removal of the air box, sidecovers, etc. Verslagen has a system that probably does flow better than the stock airbox - but a small cone at the carb inlet??????? |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/16 at 05:11:51 None of the intake tuning things I've read would make me think a cone strapped to the carb is an improvement. A volume equal to or greater than the volume of the cylinder between the filter and carb is a good idea. More to it than that, but IF the goal is performance, some study is in order. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/27/16 at 14:16:21 I seem to remember the original airbox was clamped to the rear mudguard. Sadly the rear mudguard on this bike had the structural integrity of Weetabix. Also, the original silencer was akin to a culinder. So the changes were sort of made for me, plus I only did the bike for a bit of fun over the winter. However, I've seen quite a few LS650's with similer setups as mine, so quite surprised that it looks like I could be having fun with the fuel/air settings. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/27/16 at 16:11:47 OK you got me! What is a weedibix??? If your interest can be peaked,there is a topic "tuneing your intake" on 6-30-16 that dove into this very science. I can't speak for others but I learned a lot. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Dave on 07/28/16 at 04:48:31 Cereal! |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/28/16 at 12:05:23 Now it's my turn. What's 6-30-16? :-? |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by SavageMan99 on 07/28/16 at 12:14:05 Sounds like a date to me. Likely when it was posted. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/28/16 at 12:20:17 Course ::) |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/28/16 at 19:07:46 Yea it's the date and the post was started by me ,with a lot of really smart people that new their stuff jumping in! |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Savageman on 07/28/16 at 19:40:31 It's best to use a K&N air filter or stock. Then troubleshoot the carburetor. Take a method approach. First open the carb and see what size jets are in it. Main and pilot. Then talk to Lancer about a upjet kit probably 2 to 4 sizes up from what's in there now. Also do the needle valve washer mod with 1 or 2 washers. It's going to be trial and error but you can get the jets and needle out with the carb in the engine. Just pull the fuel tank off for opening the top of the carb. And don't drop any screws. That's it! Good luck and no real magic is needed. ::) |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/29/16 at 11:22:17 The only real magic is to use JIS screw drivers (Japanese industrial standard) or file Phillips screw driver tips flater so they fit down into the screws and not strip them. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/29/16 at 15:44:13 Well I went to 6-30-16 and clicked on the link. Thought I'd been directed to some science boffin site! The intricacies of the 4S ICE are very obviously so complicated when it comes down to getting the utmost from an engine. All I really got from it was that the wind likes to have a bit of a journey before it gets to the carb. Sadly this isn't going to happen on my bike. I will try lifting the needle first, and then consider upping the main jet. All I really want is a motor that's happy at all throttle settings, not really looking for a drag strip killer. :) |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by batman on 07/29/16 at 16:21:31 But you might be better off if you use the stock inlet hose(the one that ran between the carb and the air filter box) and mounted your air filer on the end of it. |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by Eddie Picasso on 07/29/16 at 16:34:47 Tried that. Doesn't fit. :'( |
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Title: Re: Hot & bothered Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/16 at 21:11:55 Intake tuning theory is around here somewhere... |
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