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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rotella viscosity /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1468461746 Message started by Armen on 07/13/16 at 19:02:26 |
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Title: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/13/16 at 19:02:26 Have to say, I never joined the Shell Rotella cult, although it seems to be quite big and enthusiastic. Looking at the stuff the other day in the store. Seems the most butch stuff they have is 15w40. I've always run 20w50 or 15w50 in air-cooled bikes in the summer. Traffic, caning the bike on a back road, or a long hard run on a highway thins out the thin oil to a dangerous level. Saw the oil pressure light come on using 10w40 way back when. Anyone run this stuff in hot weather, or bad traffic and have long term happy results? thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by KennyG on 07/13/16 at 21:14:11 Armen, I live in Texas and whatever you imagine about how hot Hell is, it is hotter here.... Shell Rotella (550019921) T6 5W-40 Full Synthetic, Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil (CJ-4) - 1 Gallon I have been using this for the last 6000 miles with no evidence of overheating or any appreciable oil burning. Use what ever you feel comfortable with. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/16 at 21:33:38 I did tests with several oils and the 50wt actually makes the head hotter. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1283117891/0 The savage does use oil cooling and to slow it down with the heavier wt. just makes it hotter. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by KennyG on 07/13/16 at 23:22:32 Verslagen, Thank you. That is excellent information you posted about oil thickness and engine temperature. You have proven something that I always suspected, but could never think of a way to prove. I hope to be able to continue with the Rotella Synthetic until they change the formulation enough to affect the clutch. I do use 1 ounce of the RedLine additive to every oil change. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by zipidachimp on 07/14/16 at 01:07:49 Can someone please convince me of the usefulness of 'synthetic' oil or of 'organic' veggies ? Both appear overpriced, never had a problem with 'regular' ! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/14/16 at 03:14:52 Hey guys, Thanks for the informative answers. I never would have run 5W40 in an air-cooled engine unless it was at the North Pole. -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/16 at 05:18:34 3A29302924212328292D30400 wrote:
I can't help you with the oil, but if I eat Regular food for a while, I start twitching like a Parkinson's patient. I can go out to the restaurant and be in bed in a coupla hours, maybe for a coupla days, do your research. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Todd James on 07/14/16 at 06:07:10 zipidachimp asked : "Can someone please convince me of the usefulness of 'synthetic' oil ?" Here is a link to an excellent short video that explains synthetic oil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkg0oDUXs8 |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Dave on 07/14/16 at 06:21:58 I used to use expensive designer oils, and I never had any oil related failures. Then when the oils started to be changed and the ZDDP levels dropped, and I started reading about the failed cams and rockers in vintage cars, tractors and motorcycles.....I started to pay a bit more attention. For the Savage, I do believe the Shell Rotella T and T-6 will work just fine, and you will likely never have any oil related problems. I really don't believe the Savage is over-stressed thermally or mechanically - and the difference in oil viscosity between a 15W-40 or 20W-50 is most likely negligible at normal operating temperatures. There have been a few instances where I have gotten the engine noticeably hotter than what is my "normal"....once we were on a 1st gear climb up a steep gravel road in 90+ weather on a trip to TN/NC....and another time MMRanch took me down Main Street in Gatlinburg in 90+ temperatures, and we were just crawling through town and I shut my engine off several times as we sat and waited for some kind of movement. The only oil related failures I am aware of come from: 1) Most are cam bearing failures from running the engine at too low of an idle speed. 2) The next most common failure is cam lobe or rocker failure from running an oil with too low ZDDP content. 3) Some folks have clutch slippage from running an automotive oil that is energy saving and has friction modifiers. 4) Some members have run their engines on the interstate at high speeds for extended periods and run low on oil and suffered from piston/cylinder seizures.......two members had Wiseco piston seizures during the "break in" period (one pushed his bike to 80 mph for an extended period....the other one has never reported back on why his may have seized - The Wiseco pistons have proven to be reliable when they are broken in properly). So....the bottom line is that you most likely don't need to worry about an oil related engine failure as long as you keep 1,200 ppm of ZDDP, don't use friction modifiers, and keep an eye on the oil level, and keep your idle speed up around 1,100 rpm. We also don't recommend letting your bike warm up while idling on the side stand - start the bike up, give it a few seconds to get the oil flowing....then slowly ride off and allow the bike to warm up a bit before using full throttle. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/16 at 06:26:29 Time on the sidestand is time when the upper end of the cam is starving for oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Dave on 07/14/16 at 10:39:03 Here is the oil chart from the Owners manual. 10W-40 and 10W-50 appear to be interchangeable from -4 degrees to over 104 degrees of air temperature. 20W-50 is good down to 14 degrees! The Rotella T 15W-40 works from 5 degrees up to over 104 degrees. Suzuki doesn't seem to care if you use the 40 or 50 for the upper number.......but do prefer the thinner oils as the temperatures drops below freezing. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/16 at 10:44:19 Dave, should I be adding Redline to the backhoe? And when I get the bike, I will certainly be adding to it. How many ounces per gallon for the backhoe would you think? |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Dave on 07/14/16 at 10:58:06 Shell states the ZDDP content is still 1,200 ppm, and that is an acceptable level I believe. Levels over 1,400 ppm can be OK for break in of cams - but it is believed that over 1,400 ppm can cause damage when used long term. I really don't think you need to add anything to the Rotella T for your backhoe.....I don't add anything to the oil when I use it in my diesel tractor or yard equipment. Bumping the level from 1,200 ppm to 1,400 ppm for use in the Savage requires using 1/2 oz of Redline for the approximately 2 quarts to be used. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/16 at 11:09:17 Thank You, Dave. A half ounce per oil change shouldn't cost must. And, considering the potential cost of Not adding it, it's pretty much free. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Dave on 07/14/16 at 11:34:56 I really don't think that you "must" add anything to the Rotella T or T-6. Nobody has reported any damage from using oils that have the old standard of 1,200 ppm of ZDDP. The damage occurs when riders use the modern oils that have ZDDP levels down around 600 ppm. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/14/16 at 11:47:57 Unless I'm missing something, the full synth Rotella is only available in 5W40. The Dino stuff comes in 15-40. Given a choice between Dino 15W40 and Synth 5w40, which one to use? Cost isn't a concern. thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/14/16 at 11:52:57 And how about the semi-synth T5? thanks -Armen |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by 12Bravo on 07/14/16 at 12:56:15 10233C343F510 wrote:
The T5 does NOT meet JASO-MA standards. Stick with either the T or T6 and you will be good to go. I've been using the T6 in all my bikes for years. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/14/16 at 13:55:31 I've been on a few forums and Rotella 15_40 is preferred by most. Argue with people who have over 100,000 miles? Not me.. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/15/16 at 05:13:26 Any reason to use Rotella instead of Golden Spectro besides cost? thanks |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Dave on 07/15/16 at 05:27:35 52617E767D130 wrote:
Let us know specifically what Golden Spectro product you are talking about......and what the ZDDP content is. There are more expensive oils that can work.....Klotz makes some good oil. They really aren't necessary for the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/15/16 at 06:34:34 03302F272C420 wrote:
Armen, these guys have pounded through the whole gamut of slippery offerings. The cheapest winner is Rotella T 15-40. With the high mileage bikes around here that use it, where is the logical argument for spending time hunting an alternative? What is there to gain? |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by WD on 07/15/16 at 22:37:27 0F3C232B204E0 wrote:
Because the vendor rep for Spectro flat out stated "Do not use this in wet clutch air cooled engines"...? Asked him when I was still in the business specifically about using ANY Spectro product in my 1998 Savage I rode back then. I had recently dropped Castrol GTX 20W50 as my preferred oil. He recommended Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac or Chevron Delo 15w40 for use in, let's be brutally honest, "primitive" metrics. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by sauvage on 07/16/16 at 01:09:38 Is this the equivalent oil in Australia? http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Shell-Rimula-R4X-15W-40-10-Litre.aspx?pid=330077 I need to check out the zinc and phosphorus in the R4X. Currently I'm using Silkolene Comp4 which has according to them... "The typical level of zinc for comp 4 is 1000ppm, phosphorus 900ppm." But I may be persuaded to change at a bit less than half the cost of the comp4 |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/16 at 05:10:19 Mmmmm, Silkolene,,, sounds like the world's smoothest gasoline, |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/16/16 at 06:01:13 Interesting stuff from one of the very serious BMW Airhead techs. A bit difficult to read in places, but lots of info. http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/oilessay.htm |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Sarge on 07/16/16 at 10:41:08 Because the vendor rep for Spectro flat out stated "Do not use this in wet clutch air cooled engines"...? Asked him when I was still in the business specifically about using ANY Spectro product in my 1998 Savage I rode back then. I have used Spectro Golden in my 2003 Savage for about 10 years now. No problems with engine or clutch ever but I am not a high mileage rider. Not saying it is better than Rotella, but I'm sticken with it a while longer. |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by batman on 07/16/16 at 18:48:31 ARMEN ,YOU HAVE AN OIL PRESSURE LIGHT? "I SAW THE OIL LIGHT COME ON EARLY ON USING 10W 40." YOUR'S IS THE ONLY SAVAGE WITH ONE ,COOL! |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/16/16 at 19:01:08 Batman, 'Saw the oil pressure light come on using 10w40 way back when.' Way back when, meant in the '70's on an Airhead BMW. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by batman on 07/16/16 at 20:06:01 Sorry Armen ,I thought we was talkin' bout cabbages. :) :) |
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Title: Re: Rotella viscosity Post by Armen on 07/17/16 at 13:49:23 In response to the earlier response-Not sure why the Spectro rep would say not to use their oil. Here is a response from Spectro when I asked about using their oil in our bikes: Armen, Spectro Golden 4 10w40 and 15w50 will meet your needs perfectly. They both are API SL quality and are both rated JASO MA/MA2. The zinc levels in these oils are the highest allowed by JASO with a typical level of 1100-1200 parts per million. Thanks for supporting Spectro. Regards, Ken |
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