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Message started by tinkleFury on 07/12/16 at 20:06:05

Title: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 07/12/16 at 20:06:05

So, I got home after work on ol' Merco (she's a '95 rat) today and noticed a lot of smokey stuff after stopping. At first I thought it was just hot, but on getting off the bike to have a look I see oil dripping, and it's getting all over the exhaust, which explains the smoke (?). I snapped a quick video. (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1CviZnjZ0keVG92Mk1SdE5aRzg) Some important notes.

Never seen a drop of oil from this bike (though, only my 2nd year with it).
I did have the clutch cover off this spring to verslavy it (was close!). Installed new gasket afterward.
Have only been out on it a dozen or so times this spring.
It was hot as balls out today.

Curious to know if it's likely just the clutch cover gasket (maybe I got a crap one?). Or if oil will try to escape like this for another reason?

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Ruttly on 07/12/16 at 20:49:11

I have read here that a tiny amount of top quality sealant should be used at the top area around the oil galleys. I use the overpriced Suzuki gasket that has sealant on it.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by batman on 07/12/16 at 21:06:13

TF ,If your leak is on the cover there are three bolts that have oil seals on them because of passages behind them .If the leak is low and to the rear it is most likely coming from the small rubber plug above the oil level window which is the ground wire running to the neutral switch. The first can be fixed by replacing the seal the second with some high temp silicon but you'll have to remove the side cover.In any event you should wash the engine and restart to determine just where the leak is.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Dave on 07/13/16 at 04:17:01

You are far more qualified to find that leak than we are.....you are there!

Take some cleaner and clean off the oil, dry the thing off, and start it up and look for the source of the leak.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 07/13/16 at 04:24:59

Ah, good idea. I'll try to clean her up and see exactly where it's coming out. If it's the neutral ground pathway, I just cover that little grommet with sealant and then re-install the cover?

I'm half hopeful that maybe I could tighten the cover down some more. I don't have a torque wrench small enough to do anything meaningful with those cover bolts, so when I put the cover on in April I just snugged them 'decently tight'. I did have some concerns about that. Are you supposed to re-torque those bolts after having the engine up to temperature or anything? I gotta believe all that heat could upset the initial installation a little.

Not sure what an oil galley is. Guess I'm going to need a new cover gasket, eh?

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Dave on 07/13/16 at 04:42:42

The oil galley is the place at the top of the engine case, where you see the double walls. Oil travels at pressure through this channel, on the way to the cylinder head. The factory gasket has some sealer bonded to it to help seal this area...most aftermarket gaskets don't have that sealer.

(Pay no attention to the failed cam chain tensioner in the photo!)

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/16 at 06:16:31

I don't have a torque wrench small enough to do anything meaningful with those cover bolts, so when I put the cover on in April I just snugged them 'decently tighT.

I went back with a dry gasket. Never again. It leaked. I WAS able to solve it by tightening, but, only an end wrench fits in there with the exhaust system on. I had to pull on the wrench hard enough to worry me, but with the short little end wrench, you can Feel the threads clamp parts together. I could have hooked another wrench in the open end, but I didn't want to twist off....

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by batman on 07/13/16 at 17:24:09

You may be able to use the same gasket if you remove it carefully(get lucky)but if you do I would use a sealer on reassembly.You needto use it very carfully as you don't want it to enter the oil gallery and block oil flow .

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by LANCER on 07/13/16 at 18:50:19

When it comes to using sealer, whether with a gasket or not, I use the small utility brushes to apply it. It enables me to put a minimum on and avoid the excesses that go hither and yon.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by jcstokes on 07/13/16 at 19:04:06

Check that the speedo cable is tight at the bottom end, before dismantling anything.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 07/19/16 at 08:52:33

Ah... thanks everybody. I fired up the bike today in the hopes of riding it to work. Saw a little bit of oil seeping out close to the neutral switch cable. I snugged up the cover some and took off. Didn't get 1 mile before noticing a cloud of smoke in my rear view and looked down to see oil SPRAYING out everywhere!! oops!

Ordered a new gasket. Will bomb some sealant around the cable grommet and see if that helps.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Matt_greatlakesstate on 07/19/16 at 09:47:30

+1 for the speedo cable. I had oil coming out of that last summer and rolling down the clutch cover

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Ruttly on 07/19/16 at 10:15:00

Don't use too much sealant you don't want it in the oil galley it will plug things up !

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/07/16 at 18:41:45

Question! So, my new gasket arrived in the mail on friday (finally). This 'sealant' to which folks refer, what is it? I asked at the local auto place and they pointed me to something called 'silicone sealant'. Is this what I want to be glazing everything with? Both sides of the gasket and around the grommet for the neutral switch cable?

I searched for 'sealant' in rubber side down and only got 9 hits. Mostly this thread. Maybe I'm just the only one who's not sure what the stuff is!

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 19:18:10

Bike shop has what you need. No RTV. A non hardening sealer, applied thin and even. No hurry, it's not gonna get hard.
Before you start, study the oil passages, and the glue strips on your gasket,

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Kris01 on 08/07/16 at 21:17:14

6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:

No RTV.

Why not?

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/16 at 22:45:37

He asked what was recommended. And they recommend what I said, not rtv.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/08/16 at 06:15:16

Ah, great. Thanks. I'll check in at the local bike shop and see what they have. I was a little concerned when the product I was shown (see link) appeared primarily for general purpose. Says it's RTV in the description.

https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/81158.jpg

Had a difficult time with the idea that the temperature and pressure conditions of the clutch cover were the same as trying to stop rain getting in to a car. Hence my question.

Will post with what I find/do.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by DavidOfMA on 08/08/16 at 07:02:31

You only need sealant (a very thin smear, both sides) on the surfaces surrounding the oil passages at the top of the clutch cover and another thin smear on the rubber grommet that the neutral wire goes through. Tighten down the bolts on the clutch cover uniformly, in a cross pattern, in stages, so that they are all evenly compressing the gasket. I'm no expert, but that's what I did and so far, so good.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/21/16 at 12:54:04

Uh oh.

So, my clutch cover gasket came in the mail.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keWHkyOFBNek9LTmc

Went to local bike place and asked what they used for sealant and he handed me this stuff.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keR2tQa19WNG9GM1k

Finally had a chance to pull the pipe and clutch cover off this afternoon. However, when I pulled the oil plug black watery fluid GUSHED out! Measured about 3.4 litres of it. Considering only ~2.0 litres of oil went IN perhaps I should start a thread called Gas in Oil? That first time I noticed the leak the bike quit on it's own (like, 5 seconds before I snapped the video). Turns out the tank was bone dry. I thought it was a coincidence, but it's clear something very very bad has happened.

Anybody see something like this? How could the bike even RUN like this?! I'm guessing once the oil compartment filled up full of gas/oil it wouldn't have been hard to build up enough pressure to blow out around the grommet for the neutral switch wire. I'm feeling glad the bike didn't burst into flames or something!

What would cause something so awful? Could I have effed' something up doing the verslavvy mod? The bike seemed to be running great, even while spraying oil (and evidently gas!) out the cover.

http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=
0B1CviZnjZ0keZFRMaU1EaG5Fc2c

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/21/16 at 13:01:01

Ah... spent so much time making a post I should have read the forum. Seems this will likely be related to carburetor? I DID have it partially apart before running the bike this spring. I had been meaning to ask how it should be set up on with a cone filter I've got. Since it seemed to run fine I didn't think much of it.

I AM curious to know if they vacuum port that would have hooked up to the stock petcock should be completely blocked off or if it should be allowed to 'breath' some?

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by KennyG on 08/21/16 at 13:09:24

Fury,

The vacuum port must be sealed, I used a piece of the factory hose and stuffed it with Silicone and threaded a screw into it. The auto parts stores sell caps for sealing the vacuum port, but they don't hold up for any great length of time.

The float in your carburetor is stuck open. Rap the side of the carburetor float bowl with the handle end of a fairly heavy screwdriver. You might want to have someone hold the other side of the carburetor with their hand while you rap rather smartly. Hopefully that will break the float loose.

If you don't have a Raptor petcock you need a genuine Yamaha Raptor petcock Part #5LP-24500-01.

The factory petcock is notorious for leaking and all of the knowledgeable Savage owners change the petcock to a Yamaha Raptor Part #5LP-24500-01. Make sure you get a genuine Yamaha petcock not a knockoff from eBay.

After the petcock is corrected you may have to go back into the carburetor and clean or replace the seat on the float bowl valve.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/21/16 at 13:13:08

More reading, less typing.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1303612956

Looks like this thread is pretty much what I'm after. The 'spraying' oil must have been coming from the breather hose, which I've got hanging down just over the area I thought was leaking.

So... probably not leaking from the clutch cover at all. Too bad I just took it off. I'll focus on the float valve. It must have been that.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/21/16 at 13:14:12

A carburetor that floods it once will do it again.
Carb maintenance time
Raptor petcock time

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/21/16 at 13:14:34

Hey, beat me to it. Thanks Kenny. Will try it out.

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by tinkleFury on 08/30/16 at 12:41:58

Okee. So, I applied the gasket sealant/dressing to the gasket proximal to the oil galley. I had watched a general gasket sealant youtube video and did similarly which, afterwards I understand what Lancer was saying about using a brush (I had applied it to the whole width of the gasket, not just the interfaces of the covers). Also did the little grommet.
http://https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keMWVZMXBFYTYxVW8
http://https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keZUtzY0YwM0Rra2

I went ahead and popped out the carburetor. I had taken a peak at it in the spring but really didn't know what to look for. A couple more youtube vids and I see that gunk on the float valve bits can cause it to stick, so I cleaned up the seat and needle/stem thingy which had a noticeable layer of said gunk.

http://https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keTzZUSVBxOGlzUmc

Put some new oil back in and took her for a quick spin. No evidence of leakage (but for all the smoke coming from the outside of my exhaust pipe, now that it's fiberglass wrap is soaked with oil and gas).

As you can see below, my savage has a non-stock tank and a pretty generic 3/8" NPT petcock. I see them on ebay for 50 bucks or so ('drag specialties'). Anyway, to add a level of safety to the float valve issue, is it the general consensus that you close your petcock when not riding? Like, every time? I'm probably going to be doing this every time I shut down the bike now, but I was curious if this is typical.

Thanks for the feed back everyone. I have no idea why I can't get my images to show up rotated.

http://https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B1CviZnjZ0keUUNpeEtwSk1sTmc

Title: Re: Sudden Oil Leak (spray?) Around Clutch Cover
Post by Dave on 08/30/16 at 12:44:44

I turn off my petcock at the end of the day......I never fuss with it while I am still riding around, even when stopping for an hour or two.