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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clutch disengaged,no momentum /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1468355267 Message started by jjthejetplane on 07/12/16 at 13:27:46 |
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Title: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 07/12/16 at 13:27:46 Hi guys, it's been a min.for those of you in the southeast, you know how rainy our Spring was. I have again set out to tackle my bike issues and am back to diagnostics before I pull my clutch pack apart. I realized when reading back my last post "Loss of Power" that I was pulling the speedo cable when checking my clutch lever index marks. I did pull the little knobby thing out before when checking but in the interest of starting all things anew, decided to check everything out again. I first made adjustments at the handlebars for slack. I didn't feel the kink when engaging the clutch that I did before but when I started her up and should've been rolling forward while disengaging the clutch,i am completely stationary. The engine has power. I just don't move. I pulled the clutch cable knob from the lever and it,the lever immediately dropped. I had to use a bungee and the help of my roommate who is a dude and considerably larger than me to pull it back up to reseat the cable knob. I was almost sure I was screwed. It still seems to fall within an acceptable range btwn the index marks. Almost, perfectly seated btwn the two,actually.So, again, I'm back at square one. Am I missing something here? Am I doing it wrong? Is OldFeller back in commission? I have a nail to pull from the rear tire so that has to come off this wk. I'd like to do everything at once but I'm hoping to avoid opening up the clutch pack or removing the side. Any ideas what it could be? I've spent all day reading. The closest circumstance I could find the guy needed a longer pushrod. I haven't heard any of the sounds associated w a bad cam chain tensioner. Anxiously awaiting your answers ;) |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/12/16 at 14:05:48 Don't worry about a tire while the bike is dead in the water. Get it pulling, then deal with the tire. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 17:26:08 What do you mean when you say "no momentum ???" Can you push the bike? Does it keep rolling? I think that's what is called momentum. Is it that it simply won't pull even if you get the bike moving beforehand? Are the brakes dragging? If they are dragging severely, you may not be able to move the bike by hand, and it will stop suddenly, hence less momentum. Wait a minute, I read some more. Feel the lever at the transmission for slack. There won't be much, but it should be significant. If not, then your clutch is in tension and will slip. If I understand you correctly, you disconnected the hand lever or something, and the transmission lever dropped? This means your clutch was being disengaged via cable tension. Maybe the cable wasn't seated right in the lever, or, it is possible that the cable end adjuster with the two nuts just above the trans side lever got snagged above it's seat. Perhaps loosening it caused it to pop back into place. What do you think? That seems to be the most likely story. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 07/12/16 at 17:29:53 No, it's like.... When you start your bike,you engage your clutch to keep the bike from creeping forward or lurching and stalling. Even if i give the bike gas and disengage the clutch, it doesn't move.there is no forward momentum with the gas engaged. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 07/12/16 at 17:31:19 I started the bike,didn't move it. Removed the clutch cable to check the lever placement and that is it. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 17:38:33 Now I'm thinking some more, and I realize that it may drop anyway, tension or not. If it's in tension, it will drop out of tension, if it's already loose, it will just have more free play. Put it back together till you have some free play at the transmission side of the clutch, and see if it grabs. If not, then you have another problem. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 17:49:29 I loosened up my clutch before and was able to push my lever down too. It means nothing as far as I can tell. The whole lever mark thing should be measured at normal free play or around the end of your free play, I think. If your lever comes way above the marks, then you will need a new rod. My guess is a longer one, but you'll have to consult someone else about that. I'd say Oldfeller knows about all this. There was a big, famous argument on this whole thing. I'll see if I can find a link. Rod length is pretty unlikely to mess with the ability for the clutch to grab unless the rod problem causes you to adjust the clutch improperly, and that would cause problems. If everything is slack, and you don't have grip, something else is wrong. My current guess would be that the clutch is stuck open for some reason. For that, you'll have to pull the cover. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 17:54:36 This might be the one: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270678838/15 |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 18:00:53 747F677B7B6C716D1E0 wrote:
I think lever placement can be checked with the cable in place. Again, everything should have a little slack, completely loose. The slightest bit of tension will, at the least, increase the chances of slippage problems. When you let go of that clutch lever, the cable should immediately loosen up so that, ideally the throwout mechanism is barely resting against (or better yet, not even touching) the clutch pressure plate You should be able to wiggle the transmission side lever up and down (not by a huge amount) with your bare fingers. I mean loose |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by engineer on 07/12/16 at 18:11:52 You might have some of your terms mixed up. When you squeeze the clutch lever all the way in at the handlebar, the clutch should be disengaged. When the lever at the handle bar is all the way out the clutch is engaged. When the lever is out there should be just a tiny amount of free play. At the handlebar, pull the rubber boot back and look at the gap where the clutch lever pivots, or is hinged. With no pressure from your hand there should be a little wiggle room there, like the thickness of a dime or a little less. Then you know that you didn't accidentally adjust it so tight that it is holding the clutch partially disengaged. If there is no free play the clutch can slip. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/12/16 at 18:28:35 I think some people put even more slack in it to accomodate their hands, such as for small hands. Am I right? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/12/16 at 18:32:54 Who CARES? He's trying to Teach a Point. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by stewmills on 07/12/16 at 19:31:22 Also make sure that the cable end at the tranny arm/lever is seated properly in the little carrier. Mine jumped out once and I noticed the feel of the hand lever was tighter with no slack. It's just a wee little bit of difference, but it was enough for me to start checking things before I rode lots of miles with the clutch slipping. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 07/13/16 at 09:36:49 I have read that post and a few others a few times over. I think I started to confuse myself. I have about a dimes width of space at the clutch, after adjustment,squeezing in only slightly -the clutch lever's bottom edge is right at the lower index line. This is as of this mrng. I did have my terminology mixed up a bit. Sorry. When i release the clutch, the bike doesn't move. I have checked the clutch lever marks a few times before and always had the lever fall within range but have had this persistent issue so I know there is a issue with my clutch.i have been trying to avoid going in. Hoping it was just a wonky clutch cable. If it seems imminent that I have to go into the clutch, besides old feller's post about cleaning out and sanding the clutch pack, are there other posts I should refer to? Gna be hoisting it up on some cinder block fora DIY stand?any advice? Is there any other way of diagnosing this loss of clutch response besides or before going in? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/13/16 at 10:05:22 So the clutch doesn't even try the slightest bit to grip??? If you sit on the bike and roll it back and forth in 1st gear with your feet, and you don't feel the clutch even attempt to grip, I don't think cleaning the plates is going to help you. Something tells me that something is holding the clutch pack open, or maybe there's another problem. Did you check the other gears? Are you sure it's not something in the transmission? Are you stuck in neutral? With the engine off, does it roll back and forth in gear with your hand off the clutch? The clutch plates could possibly have grenaded themselves, :-/ but we'll keep our fingers crossed that it's just an easy problem. Did you do any clutch mods? Do you feel/hear any weird vibrations or noises from the clutch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzGblbeDuU What do the other guys think? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by oldNslow on 07/13/16 at 10:25:01 Quote:
Disconnect the clutch cable from the arm on the engine.( This takes the cable out of the equation.} 1.With the engine off: kickstand up, sitting on the bike. Shift the transmission into neutral. See if you can push the bike. It should move easily. Shift the transmission into first. See if you can push the bike. It should be very difficult or impossible to push. 2. Shift the transmission back into neutral. Start the engine.( if the clutch safety switch on your bike is still connected and working you are still going to have to pull the clutch lever in to get the bike to start even though the cable is not connected) With the engine idling, shift into first. The bike should lurch forward a bit and the engine should stall. You might want to hold a little pressure on the front brake in case the bike tries to take off. Let us know what happens. Quote:
Just a terminology note. When you release the clutch lever on the handlebar you are not releasing the clutch. Pulling the lever in releases -ie disengages the clutch. When you let go of the lever the clutch is engaged ie. it is connecting the engine to the transmission and ultimately the rear wheel. Pulling the handle bar lever in disconnects(disengages) the engine from the transmission. That's why you have to pull the lever in to sit a a stoplight for example if the transmission is not it neutral. Connecting or disconnecting {engaging or disengaging )the engine from the transmission is what the clutch is for. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/13/16 at 11:11:46 Sounds like a good idea, kinda like I said, but better... Disconnect the cable. Get rid of it. Sling it through the air so that you'll never find it again. :D ;D ;D Pay no attention to the handlebar lever. It is meaningless now. You need to know whether the stuff inside the case is working right. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/16 at 15:11:37 Get it in gear and see if you can push it. If you can push it in second gear the clutch is slipping. What you explained months ago was The engine was running, bike started slowing down and you gave it gas, I think the clutch is scorched. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 13:55:15 Sorry for the long delay.life got in the way. I spoke with ls-rich who told me to check my front sprocket to see if it was moving while the bike was in gear, engine off. My sprocket is fine and the bike doesn't roll in anything but neutral. So, today, I removed the exhaust and clutch case and took a look inside.i will follow this post with pics. First thing, I forgot to drain the oil and had to put the bolts back in before I had a major leak. Drained the oil, pulled the cover and it was full of oil. Eegad! That's normal tho, yeah? Upon visual inspection-mind you, I've only seen examples of really horrible clutches- I couldn't see anything wrong. I removed the piece holding the springs in place and noticed that the rod is super short,maybe just a quarter inch longer than the longest bolt I pulled from the cover. I don't know if that is abnormal. The gasket is dried,cracked and needs to be replaced. My exhaust was held on by bolts that were finger tight and not stock,so, surprisingly, someone has touched it before me. I didn't see a gasket there.should there be? I took a few pics of the inside for more experienced eyes than my own and reassembled everything until tmrw. When I tried to reseat the clutch case cover, i had issue.i realized that it was due to the clutch lever. I couldn't figure a way to jig it so that it would sit properly so I removed the rod that sits in the midst of the clutch springs and it closed right up. My uneducated guess from fingering it for a while is that it should be hitting that rod and that only after the rod was removed did it close. I'm thinking My rod is too short? Please forgive me if that was an oversimplification and I'm being ignorant. All of this is new for me. The only other thing-I watched a vid on how clutches work on motorcycles.there was a second toothed plate behind the first on the engine shown.does the Suzuki have that? Here is the vid link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=agLa0A8GAfc So far the hardest part was removing those two acorn nuts by the right peg.pain in the butt!! |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 13:55:52 Springs |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 13:56:22 On |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 13:58:25 One more |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 13:59:12 Last one |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/01/16 at 14:23:15 You ,need to show us the inside of the clutch side cover where the arm is that contacts the rod ,I fear you and your giant size friend may have bent/damaged the arm inside by horseing it upward. You should have taken the cover loose and held the arm level when placing the cover back on.Is the sintered piece with the concave dimple that holds the end of the release rod broken /bent /cracked/loose ? If it is ,it could be your problem. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by verslagen1 on 08/01/16 at 14:50:53 Why is your clutch plate holder chocolate? measure the cam chain tensioner while you're there. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/76ab1950.jpg |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by Dave on 08/01/16 at 15:07:06 All that brown goo on the clutch center should not be there.....it looks to me like your clutch is fried. I believe you need to take the clutch apart, and measure the thickness of the fiber discs....and see what color the metal plates are. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/01/16 at 15:14:23 She started losing the ability to accelerate, even though the engine was winding up. She gave it gas, until it just would not pull. She cooked the clutch. WHYit started slipping is not yet known. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/01/16 at 16:06:41 I only took one pic of the inside of the cover bc I thought I was getting overzealous with the camera. I had the lever level but there was a fraction of space and I'm paranoid about rain so I removed the rod so asto get it tightly closed without reinserting all the bolts. Ok,so i need to check the cam shaft length and take the clutch apart to measure the plates. As JOG said, i still don't know what caused the clutch failure. You guys are saying its fried, what does that mean for my bike and finances? :-[ |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/01/16 at 16:31:44 If you have already explained EVERYTHING that happened , , leading up to discovering the kink in the clutch cable, then copy and paste it, please. If not, then everyone needs to know. It's been a long time, if I'm wrong, then please explain everything that happened. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/01/16 at 18:11:22 The cover looks like it absorbed some of the same heat that fried the clutch.there may be some damage to the piece that the rod seats into also .I'm thinking she is going to need clutch plates if they are worn,or at least a shorter rod,which may have been her problem in the first place. reving the engine with the clutch slipping really didn't help. How many miles on the bike?how long and how far did you drive the bike between the time it started to slip and when it would no longer move? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by Dave on 08/02/16 at 04:46:29 The best thing to do is find a complete used clutch from eBay, or a member of this forum. Your steel and fiber plates are most likely scorched. This eBay listing seems a bit high.....but shipping is probably close to $ 20 alone. http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Suzuki-LS650-S40-Savage-Boulevard-Clutch-Basket-Complete-from-2700-mile-Bike-/381680894641?hash=item58ddf442b1:g:1zwAAOSwnNBXbEQg&vxp=mtr I probably have a set from a 4 speed engine that are good....I will look and see. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/02/16 at 06:09:12 Here is what led us here: I picked up a nail a few mos ago. I pulled it as it seemed to be on the outer side of the tire And not deep seated, drove it less than 3 mi to a tire shop and back home. I was maybe .1 mi from my house going uphill when the bike stopped moving forward. I was about midway up the hill so, my initial thought, even tho it hadn't happened at all to my recollection before was that my clutch had slipped. I kicked it up a gear but realized I hadn't actually slipped into neutral. There were cars behind me and so I continued to gas it for maybe another fifteen secs. When I realized it wasn't moving, I pulled it to the side and shut it off. I got it started again and half rode, half crab walked it home. It moved at a snails pace in first the short distance to my house. When I spoke with JOG the following day, he recommended I adjust the free play in my lever. I adjusted it so that it was all the way out, I believe the furthest, loosest possible setting. I changed to Rotella T and tried again to get it running properly. I had the same snail pace of a ride in a circle around my block. I would say it was a 2-3 min ride, in first, shifting did nothing to change the speed/power. This was maybe .25 mi distance. I haven't moved it since. Since then, I have checked the seating of the clutch lever several times, checked my front sprocket, and now, pulled the clutch case cover. I rode the bike from No.Va to Charlotte and then to Atl. I didn't feel or notice any slippage. The only difference that I noticed at all while riding was after I went down in Richmond, va. The pressure needed to pull in my clutch lever was significantly more. I posted asking if it was possible for that to happen and if it would affect performance as I laid the bike down on its left side. The shifter and the clutch lever at the handlebar were both slightly bent. I maintain I didn't feel the clutch slipping at all during my three day ride. I have 25,642 mi on the odometer. Besides forgetting to turn my gas on in Richmond the only other issue I had was unplugging that yellow cable under the tank outside Henderson,nc. I can't even recall an instance where I had issue downshifting. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 08:49:01 JJ,I believe Dave is on the right track .You need a new /used clutch pac,as yours is damaged from heat.If you think the repair is something you can't take on ,I'd seek help,someone who knows bikes and has the tools , as there is other things besides the clutch pac that need to be checked on reassembly and adjustment.....I would like to know how many miles you drove the bike after the clutch became "harder to pull"and when it failed....I have an idea that the shift rod jumped out of the dish shaped depression in the arm in the side case and got jammed between the lever and the raised web in the case to the left in your picture, (thus the damage I see to that piece and slight wear in the web) this would act to make the rod longer and not allow full engagement of the clutch,(slight slipping ) that you might not have felt, while riding but would have caused the kind of wear and heat we're seeing over time an miles. I would also have you take the rod out and roll it on a flat surface (a piece of glass) with a flashlight behind it to make sure it is not bent. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/16 at 09:00:14 I wouldn't even trust the springs. Wasn't there a kink in the clutch cable after the tire shop worked on it? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/02/16 at 09:03:22 Does she need the entire clutch pack? Can she just buy some plates and steels? Does she need to replace the steels as well as the frictions due to heat damage? Does the basket itself need to be replaced from heat damage, or is it salvageable? Here's a used clutch basket. http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-04-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-650-LS650P-OEM-CLUTCH-BASKET-21200-24B12-/171961418159?hash=item2809b301af:g:crMAAOSwIrNWFXYK&vxp=mtr#viTabs_0 Here's a Barnett Kevlar clutch kit... If you want something to grip --A performance clutch. http://www.ebay.com/itm/95-14-Suzuki-LS650-Savage-Barnett-Complete-Clutch-Kit-Kevlar-/311651278861?hash=item488fdd200d:g:gGYAAOSwzLlXgxio&vxp=mtr And here's some regular EBC brand friction plates (no steels) http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-REDLINE-Clutch-Kit-Suzuki-LS-650-1986-1988-1995-2004-/261309503865?hash=item3cd7429979:g:jXEAAOxy79JSXEgS&vxp=mtr |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/02/16 at 09:05:01 If you can save the basket itself, you could buy the Barnett kit and get a clutch that will probably never slip again. The stock clutch is naturally soft, so... |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 09:29:05 I'd be changing the wave washer and wave washer seat ,the heat could have ruined them,and what's another $20.00 |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by jjthejetplane on 08/02/16 at 09:30:50 I did have a slight kink after adjusting the clutch cable at the handlebars. I drove roughly 450 mi after laying the bike down in rich. I felt the change in grip/pressure the entirety of the ride after laying it down. I know I drove a good 300 from Charlotte to atl. I took all back roads until I hit stone mountain. I prob rode the bike for a week after arriving and then parked it for a month.i noticed the nail on my first trip out and thus began the unraveling. I am not by any definition an expert on this bike but i trust my hands. I'd like help but only from someone who is well-versed in savages and I've yet to find anyone nearby. I'm assuming I need to go ahead and pull the clutch apart to see what parts are salvageable? I will post pics. My concern now is that if I can't fully isolate the issue, how do I keep it from recurring? I've seen posts where guys have replaced their clutch pack only to have it "wear out"within a yr. Batman- I've kind of thought all along that I jammed something up when I went down.my shifter hit the cement curb of a highway median, the full weight of the bike came down on the shifter, broke my left foot peg off-and then immediately after i feel the difference when depressing the clutch. Could this explain why the clutch release arm was still falling within specs when I checked it against the index marks? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 09:38:36 JJ,yes ,if the rod was jammed in that position it would make the arm look higher.but I'm just guessing ,there must be a member somewhere in your area ! STEP UP GUYS!!!! ....If not maybe you could find a guy who works at a dealer ,who might do some work on the side.(don't ask him in front of his boss! take him to lunch?) |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/16 at 09:40:00 Since you FELT a difference in the clutch after the drop and the clutch eventually died, I think you found the culprit. I would not trust the springs unless you can find a compressor with a gauge to test them. Everything that puts pressure on the plates that got hot would be suspect, IMO. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 09:53:16 JJ, JOG"S right ,that is why I talked about the wave washer(it's in with the pac ,and is also a "spring" of sorts.) RON AYERS web sight has exploded views of our bikes if you need to see what we're talking about, he also a go to guy for parts. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by ohiomoto on 08/02/16 at 09:58:34 It's pretty clear your fiber plates are toast and the steel plates may be glazed as well. The reason it doesn't move at all is that when you fired the clutch (when it was still moving) everything was hot (and got really hot!) so the materials were expanded. This accelerates the destruction even faster. Then everything cooled down when the bike is shut down and sits for some time. Now the plate material returns to it's normal size, except there is less material because it wore off and is in your oil. So the plates are now thinner than they were before. So thin in fact that they hardly touch. And they are glazed over from the heat so they can't grab. This happened to me a couple of times when I used to race 125cc motocross bikes in sand. Once things start slipping, it all goes south quickly. You finish the moto not even realizing the clutch was slipping and it won't move by time the second moto starts a couple of hours later. The good news is, that you already have it apart. Just take the springs off and pop the plates out. I would do a set of friction plates for sure. if the metal plates are steel, you should be able to de-glaze them, but since things got as hot as they did, you might want to spend the extra cash to replace them also. If they are aluminum, they are surly garbage. Springs wouldn't be a bad idea either. That clutch kit you found would be perfect. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 10:04:05 JJ, the clutch in our bikes don't wear out! that said, they do wear,as the pac wears it becomes thiner, and so the throw out rod must at some point be shorter otherwise it will not allow the plates to fully compress,they start slipping as yours did .Suzuki sells three different length rods for this very reason.you shouldn't worry about replacement of your pac even with used ,it will last for a long ,long long, long time! |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/16 at 10:14:10 they are surly garbage... I get surly under certain conditions, too. If you have dial calipers you can check the dis k s A FLAT area to lay them on and inspect them. But, the cost of being wrong versus the cost of new might be enough to make you go with new. Or, known good used, The amount of crap you've pumped through the oil would be enough to make me change it Again. I would dump the oil and run a magnet through it. Maybe even pour it through a filter, like a pair of hose stretched over a wide mouth jar. Drain oil into a Clean catch pan. A large glass jar to dump some into, inspect it in sunlight. Put the plug in, add some diesel fuel, slosh vigorously, drain. Inspect, I'd flush till it came out looking safe. Color is not important, particulates are. The filter is there, of course, but the pump may not be happy with crud in the oil. Do you have a compressor? Since the sidecover is off, you can inspect the crankcase for lumps of clutch material, and get an idea of how desperate it needs cleaned up. A paper towel is good for gathering stuff to look at in direct sunlight. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by batman on 08/02/16 at 13:16:58 JJ After a few more cups of coffee ......the cobwebs have cleared! I think I gave you a bum steer on the rod, I don't think it can be bent or damaged as it is made out of extremely hard steel much harder than the case or the release arm.but because of the misalignment,bad oil and heat I would be checking the bearing and sleeve that the rod rides in the face of the clutch, I'd clean the bearing, oil it ,and make sure it turns smoothly,and doesn't have excessive play. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by Dave on 08/02/16 at 13:33:06 I would suspect that when she went down on the left side, she got a bend/kink in the cable or clutch lever, and this didn't allow the cable to fully release the pressure on the clutch. After riding around this way for a while, the clutch finally wore enough that the slippage became continuous........and cooked the clutch. In addition to replacing the clutch pack, the operation of the clutch lever and cable needs to be checked over carefully, and the parts repaired or replaced as necessary. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/02/16 at 17:25:13 I just spoke with a well-respected bike mechanic in my area on the burned up clutch situation with the discoloration on the inner basket, and he seemed to suggest that the clutch basket could be reused if it wasn't deformed or something. He mentioned getting it checked for deformities. He said he couldn't make a judgment on something he hasn't seen of course. If you can get a kit with springs, steels, and frictions, that might be an idea, but someone mentioned other parts, like wave washers. That might be an issue. How many additional parts does she need? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/02/16 at 17:35:05 3730313735372C37580 wrote:
If the steel plates are tempered, could they have gotten hot enough to lose temper? If not, you can probably measure them for wear and clean them in solvent or sand them or something to make them grip again. The frictions... less likely. I'd take them out and measure them though. Didn't Oldfeller talk about soaking friction plates? That had to do with oil, right? Maybe if they're not badly worn, the burned part can be sanded off? But then, you still have to deal with the weak clutch. Ahh, but then, maybe you can add plates and make one of those Yoda performance clutches, as people here call 'em. Now, that's cheap. :) Wonder how well it would work with stronger springs? Broken throw out parts? |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/16 at 17:48:53 Without doing an eyes on inspection I'd be looking at the price of a used clutch from a low mileage, crashed Savage. Id compare it to new parts. The cage condition could be guessed at, based on spring tension, plate warpage, and how things generally look. The cage should be okay if the springs and plates are not ruined by heat. JJ, call around, see what new parts cost, see if used is available and cost. Used being the Whole clutch assembly. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by ohiomoto on 08/02/16 at 20:57:07 Under normal conditions bthe only concerns with the cage would be if it were grooved or scalloped from long term abuse. When this happens you'll have a grabby engagement/release because the friction plates get stuck on the cage. It's easy enough to file the grooves down to make the cage smooth again. You can do this a few times but if you take too much off, the clutch plates get sloppy and you reach catastrophic basket failure. BuI don't think our bikes even produce enough power for that to happen. Just throw that kit in there and be done. It will be fine. |
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Title: Re: Clutch disengaged,no momentum Post by Dave on 08/03/16 at 04:33:32 http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-04-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-650-LS650P-OEM-CLUTCH-BASKET-21200-24B12-/171961418159?hash=item2809b301af:g:crMAAOSwIrNWFXYK&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Suzuki-LS-650-P-LS650P-Savage-Clutch-Drive-Plate-Plates-/261913089573?hash=item3cfb3c9625:g:L2oAAOSwBahVbkNI&vxp=mtr |
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