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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Dropped left side exhaust valve head. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1467855598 Message started by robinsoncrusoe on 07/06/16 at 18:39:56 |
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Title: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/06/16 at 18:39:56 Up for your consideration today ladies and gentlemen is a 2001 pastel blue Suzuki Savage LS650 with 32090.xx (thirty two thousand and ninety miles), purchased at 5000 miles for 1.1k USD Who'll bid me...... The bike has a clone cam chain tensioner mod, leaky plug mod, raptor petcock mod with aux' fuel vacuum switch mod in line, s40 seat and the rear signals moved back to the license plate holder. Oil changed every 1000 miles. Anyways... Commuting to work one morning at 70 mph and I hear clunk them a loooong grinding noise and of course the engine cuts out. My first suspicion was the cam chain had extended over way over to the other side and maybe interfering with the opposing side. Nope! With the clutch cover removed it's a long ways for that to happen. So then I inspect the exhaust port and discover the a valve head missing from the left side exhaust valve. So... I do wrench when it is absolutely necessary and so my questions are these. based upon your collective invaluable experience do we think it is economically viable to rebuild with used ee bay parts (Cheap head assembly on the auction site, piston and blah blah), do we think the engine is flushable of the aluminum shavings without splitting the cases or do we think scrap the bike for parts and move on to greener pastures like a new zero percent financed bike. Fyi I see used engines being sold for more than I paid for the bike. :( Has anyone brought a dead bike with a diagnosis like this back from the dead? How much chanting did it take? And hey guys, what's the deal! I read posts all over that claim this bike is bullet proof, wtf? :-? Oh.... and any clutch plates puzzle assembly Grand Masters on the forum? I get the pin thing. Thanks for your constructive input Bob. 87 Honda ch250 elite. 07 Vento Phantom R4i. 700c Roadmaster ;) |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Steve H on 07/07/16 at 08:21:25 I had this happen on a Honda 350 one time. All damage was contained to the cylinder. It didn't break through the piston. It didn't damage the valve seat or cylinder walls. So, piston, rings, valve, smoothing of divets in the head and it was rolling again. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Dave on 07/07/16 at 08:38:50 I started a discussion about the engine dropping a valve occasionally....not sure we ever came up with a common cause or reason. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1445947173/0 |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by batman on 07/07/16 at 08:45:25 Steve"s on the right track, why not pull it down and look at the damage,you only have 1100 in the bike ,could be cheaper to keep her than buy a new one.If it's to bad then put back together and sell,and you'll be able to tell the new buyer what it really needs.(honest John's used motrcycles). |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/16 at 09:23:26 Well, Dave, you have a answer to your question... 556E6374656972746F676A75060 wrote:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2mdh07r.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/jph0za.jpg |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/16 at 09:31:12 415C515A5D405C5D504146405C56330 wrote:
Quote:
What is this? And what oil did you use? Valve adjustment history... preferred setting? any changes lately? |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by batman on 07/07/16 at 09:51:49 WHAT HE SAID,and what's a clone cam? |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/16 at 12:14:55 Wonder if the cam wear and increased valve clearance can lead to valve failure? I have wondered that. I liked setting the valves on the tight end of the adjustment range. I wanted every thousandth of an inch of lift I could get and the closer the lobe was to the rocker the less likely it is to Slap into the thing. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/16 at 12:51:19 The valve is more likely to stick if it's overheated. the valve is more likely to overheat if it adjusted too tight. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/16 at 12:56:27 I don't get them Too tight. I spend time and get it on the tight Side of the adjustment Range. It ran like stink.. If someone is unsure of their ability to do it precisely, then they should play it safe. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/16 at 13:24:19 obviously. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/07/16 at 13:44:36 7271647D717E2428100 wrote:
Here is the clone C C T M |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/07/16 at 14:03:19 22312627383533313A65540 wrote:
Quote:
What is this? And what oil did you use? Valve adjustment history... preferred setting? any changes lately?[/quote] The auto fuel valve mod. It solved the forgetfulness of leaving the main fuel petcock open and the nasty idea of a stuck carb float etc. etc... Oil used Rotella T6. Valve checks 5K. I am or was of the opinion loose is better than too tight. Besides the bike would pull to in excess of 86mph with no problem..... on a private closed course. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Serowbot on 07/07/16 at 14:12:12 70mph is around 4,800rpm... when the valve dropped... So in this case, it wasn't float... :-? Did anything break off the spark plug?... (maybe some loose insulator wedged the valve open?)... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/16 at 14:49:42 5D404D46415C40414C5D5A5C404A2F0 wrote:
I applaud your inventiveness but... One of the key issues with the stock petcock is vacuum loss at high throttle settings. At WFO there's no vacuum or at least not enough to open the valve all the way. And this occurs even with a stock setup. So... potentially, this maybe the issue. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/07/16 at 14:52:23 Well....the spark plug has not been changed in about 18 months. Before then and up to recently the bike has been a 120 mile @ 5 days a week commuter. So I suppose if any loose debris had gotten free on the last plug change, it may well of happened a while ago. It's possible the side or center electrode may of deteriorated to the point of dropping in. However, I have purchased a NGK plug in the past for another bike and whilst installing it outside of the store of purchase it sheered off with the amount of force taken to open an already opened pickle jar. Leaving the threads in the hole and the main body of the plug in the socket. The stock reply from the store manager was that the plug was over torqued which was b.s. I told him that the head was Chinese aluminum and would of stripped the threads before shearing. No recourse on that one, either way. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/07/16 at 15:02:43 nm |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/07/16 at 15:05:47 7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 wrote:
I applaud your inventiveness but... One of the key issues with the stock petcock is vacuum loss at high throttle settings. At WFO there's no vacuum or at least not enough to open the valve all the way. And this occurs even with a stock setup. So... potentially, this maybe the issue.[/quote] Nice idea. Although no poblems through the gears at all rev ranges right up to no more guts. I believe any problems with this fuel valve would of become apparent a long time ago. Also I'm a little lost as to how this could of caused the valve head to drop off. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by batman on 07/07/16 at 21:09:52 You were running at 70mph ,you might have been running on the lean side which means hotter,the valve needs to seat to transfer heat to the head to cool it, your 12mi. run to work and back would take the temps from cold to overheated(if you were running lean)some 20 time per wk,heat stressing the valve. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Dave on 07/08/16 at 03:51:38 Unless the exhaust port got oil soaked from a hole in the piston in the last few seconds.....the exhaust port really doesn't look like the bike was running lean.....it look more like it was running rich. The valves are dark....not the ghostly white like a 70 mph ride would provide. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by batman on 07/08/16 at 14:17:56 Dave ,could running rich erode the valve? |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Dave on 07/09/16 at 04:53:28 I really don't know what causes some of these bikes to lose the top of the valve. When the VW beetle was in the last years of production, the fuel injection and lean mixtures caused very short exhaust valve life. The lean mixtures made the exhaust valves get very hot, and the stems would "stretch and neck down", and they could also burn around the hardened face. Nobody who has lost a valve on the Savage has given us good photos or a reason to understand what caused the failure. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/09/16 at 15:45:49 Thank you everyone for your constructive input. So is it engine in bike frame or engine out of bike frame for a rebuild? Any recommendations. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/09/16 at 15:59:39 another pic |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Dave on 07/09/16 at 16:49:10 It is an engine out of frame rebuild. You can't get the cylinder off the crankcase with the engine in the frame. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/09/16 at 18:52:50 Thanks Dave. Any ideas on flushing the crank case of aluminum grinds? Maybe used filtered oil mixed with gas 70/30? Then remove spark plug and spin the crank with a drill, then drain? |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/16 at 20:44:19 I like diesel for flushing stuff.. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/09/16 at 21:38:50 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
That's a great idea. |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Dave on 07/10/16 at 03:21:53 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
Yep....Me too! |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by Kris01 on 07/10/16 at 07:21:41 Just remember not to freak out the first time you fire it after washing it with diesel. It's gonna smoke! |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by batman on 07/10/16 at 09:35:26 I took another look at that pic of the vacuum diaphragm ,the hose clamp on the inlet looks smaller than the discharge of the petcock,this may have been a restriction at higher speeds causing a lean mixture. In any event I'd sh*tcan it . |
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Title: Re: Dropped left side exhaust valve head. Post by robinsoncrusoe on 07/10/16 at 10:46:35 Thanks Batman. The yellow hose you see is the vacuum hose not a fuel outlet. The black hose you see at five o' clock is the fuel outlet. Any differences in hose clamp size are merely an optical illusion, where the camera lens is closer to the vacuum valve and further away from the hose clamp in question. This setup has been in service for years, ever since I read that a forum members crankcase got flooded with gas after forgetting to shut off the fuel valve. The float in the carb had got stuck open for some period of time. In fact the idea was inspired by someone on this forum. ;) |
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