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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Weird idle problem /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1467117203 Message started by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 05:33:23 |
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Title: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 05:33:23 It's warm here in the mornings, around 75+ degrees. Bike always starts fine without choke. Then driving down the road a block and stopping at an intersection, I'd starts chugging and almost dying just like when the choke is pulled. Black smoke coming out the exhaust. Driving off is fine but idling in the next stop is the same issue. It eventually gets a little better the longer the ride. What could cause this? BTW I checked the petcock and there is no gas in the vacuum line. It is like it gets too much fuel and not enough air. The air filter is fairly new. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 06/28/16 at 05:48:42 Just for kicks......disconnect the vacuum line and plug both ends, and set the petcock to prime and see if anything changes. It could be that something is stuck in the float needle/seat and it allows a small amount of fuel to flow as the bike sits, and the fuel level is too high in the float bowl after sitting overnight. The vacuum petcock does shut off the fuel flow - but there is fuel in the line that could be slowly filling up the float bowl as the bike sits. As you continue to ride you may be lowering the fuel level and the overly rich issue goes away. Gummy/clogged jets cause the bike to be lean....so that most likely is not a problem. Even now and then somebody gets a float that fails and allows fuel to enter the float....and the heavy float allows too high of a float level. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 06:06:30 I did have the enrichment valve on the side of the carb open though to look for dirt and stuff. I do that once a year. Could that have anything to do with it? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 06/28/16 at 06:11:08 If the symptoms all started just after you did that work....then I would look there first. Perhaps it is not seating properly. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 06:45:09 Okay I opened the enrichment valve again and everything was properly seated, BUT there was condensate on the plunger stem behind the membrane. It was not gas. It was water. Is it possible I got some bad gas? Or is it the incredible high humidity here? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by verslagen1 on 06/28/16 at 07:36:06 Since it's an idle issue, the TEV is a good guess. Every once in a while we get someone with a weird issue that goes away. But easiest cure is to drain the gas and replace. Throw in a ounce of seafoam and hope for the best. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 08:00:52 So after I put it back together, I started it and let it idle for five minutes and blipped the throttle occasionally and it didn't act weird then. I couldn't go for a ride, since I'm at work. So everything had to go quickly. I'm gonna try the seafoam first and fresh gas. If that doesn't help I'm gonna try the petcock test. Have to see how it acts at lunch when I ride home. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/16 at 12:33:15 Idle on the sidestand is death. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/28/16 at 13:08:12 203F393E23241525152D3F33784A0 wrote:
Why is that? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/16 at 13:11:39 It won't oil the high end of the cam. Dave has pictures, |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 06/28/16 at 13:25:07 It is a concern.....that maybe the low oil flow at idle doesn't properly oil to the high end of the cam. I could have done a better job of showing how the oil feeds through the cam from the left side....and likely has no oil left to lubricate the right cam lobe when on the side stand at idle - but the thread link below explains the issue. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1447331708 |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/29/16 at 05:51:24 Ok, I tried something else. When I disconnect the vacuum hose on the carb and plug the nipple, take the end of the hose in my mouth and suck a vacuum on it, it idles fine. I try and put a new piece of hose on it and see then. But it seems like the vacuum from the carb is not strong enough. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 06/29/16 at 06:25:14 As the diaphragm in the vacuum petcock ages....it either becomes too stiff to operate properly and starves the bike for fuel - or it gets holes in it and allows fuel to flow through the vacuum hose and it gives the engine too much fuel. Either way.....when the vacuum petcock fails it can cause the bike to run poorly. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/29/16 at 06:42:20 I put a new petcock in there about four years ago. Just to prevent those failures. Could it be already defective? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 06/29/16 at 07:02:14 4E5D505A455B49453C0 wrote:
The only way to know for sure...is to test it. Block off the vacuum hose on both ends, turn the petcock to PRI....and see how it runs. If it runs better than it does with the petcock hooked up and set to ON or RES.....then the petcock is faulty. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/29/16 at 07:09:47 Ok, so I didn't have anything handy to plug the hose end, but I turned it to prime and held the nipple on the carb shut and it idled just fine. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by verslagen1 on 06/29/16 at 07:23:55 Well, it could be a bad hose too. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 06/29/16 at 07:31:12 I checked the hose, it's fine. I put a new one on once a year. It must be the petcock. What's weird is other than idle, the bike runs just fine. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/16 at 17:06:31 At idle the vacuum is highest. A small crack in the diaphragm can let gas through and into the vacuum line. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by batman on 06/29/16 at 20:46:05 AS Mr. rogers use to say ...can you spell R A P T O R ? Sure you can! :) |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 07/05/16 at 09:29:05 Update: installed new petcock, runs like new. Disassembled old one and could not find anything wrong other than all four screws that hold it together were kinda loose. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/16 at 11:38:26 What petcock did you get? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 07/05/16 at 12:53:13 40535E544B55474B320 wrote:
Unless you have a new diaphragm to compare the old one to.....it would be hard to determine how "stiff" the old diaphragm is. My guess is the old diaphragm is too stiff to move when the engine has being run in a way that results in low vacuum (idle, aggressive throttle openings). |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by batman on 07/05/16 at 13:50:07 WOW,third factory petcock ! Guess you can't help some people. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by verslagen1 on 07/05/16 at 14:12:33 64777A706F71636F160 wrote:
That would do it... vac leak. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/16 at 16:20:57 Why replace something before you autopsy the old one? You MIGHT repair it.. Took me a few years to get a buddy to understand, Don't BUY a New Starter for the mower First,, tear down the Old one, see if you can fix it... Gonna tear the old one down anyway, why spend sixty bucks first? And why go back with a known weak link? |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 07/06/16 at 05:42:35 I needed the bike to get to work. So I waited until the new petcock arrives and swap them. I just like the stock one better than the Raptor one because of the function, despite it having eventual shortcomings. If it happens again in the future, I know what would be wrong. Those 80 bux for it spread over many years is not all that bad. The membrane on the old one was rather flimsy still. Didn't really feel stiff, but I also never could compare to a new one. It didn't seem to have a tear or hole in it. There also was no gas in the vacuum line, it didn't even smell like gas. I suspect it was the loose screws. I didn't expect screws to loosen that much with a split lock washer underneath, unless they weren't tight to begin with. But the tank does shake a lot under normal operation. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 07/06/16 at 05:54:10 You can buy rebuild kits for the stock petcock.....so you can rebuild the one you have an keep it as a spare. You also should get a rubber cap for the vacuum port on the carb, and a golf tee to shove in the vacuum line.....and put them in your tool kit. Next time you are out riding and have a problem, you can remove the vacuum line, plug the line with the golf tee, put the rubber cap on the vacuum port, and then move the petcock lever to PRI and ride home without any issues. |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/06/16 at 08:47:34 Sounds like he has a rebuild kit now.. Keep the rubber outta the sun. There's a reason why the vacuum petcock is made, I understand choosing it. Just be aware of the potential myriad of oddball symptoms that its failure can cause. Dave is right, carry vacuum cap. Pure silicone oil is very good for restoring plastics and rubber. Finding it is not easy, but places where they work on Older copiers will have it. Ask for Fuser Oil. Model of the copier does not matter, |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by ralfyguy on 07/06/16 at 12:28:56 Dave and Justin, thanks for the advice. I will certainly take those few parts with me from now on. They don't take any space at all. I suspected it to be the culprit once I ran it on prime and running pretty much normal then. But I did not know about the rebuild kits. Thanks for the info. :) |
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Title: Re: Weird idle problem Post by Dave on 07/07/16 at 04:00:54 687E79617F3D0C0 wrote:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1277533116/9#9 |
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