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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1467037549 Message started by Gary_in_NJ on 06/27/16 at 07:25:49 |
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Title: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/27/16 at 07:25:49 I built a CS-1 during the winter of 2015 and got it on the road as soon as the weather allowed in the Spring of 2015. I put it away for the winter last fall and haven't had it out of the garage since. Not that I didn't want to ride it, but my wife opened up a cafe this past March and it has consumed all of our free time. I have several bikes, and all of them have had a lonely 2016. So this weekend I had some time to ride, and first out of the garage was the CS-1. The bike started right up (I didn't even have to charge the battery) and was eager to be ridden. I warmed up the tires on my way to my favorite twisty roads, and gave the bike and myself a good workout. So my thoughts after an eight-month hiatus from this bike: - It's a fun motorcycle. It's pure simplicity and honestly draws a great connection between man and machine. - It handles great. I have the suspension dialed in just right for my weight and riding style. I have a lot of mods and time into my suspension. Do a search on my name to see what I have done. - The ride and riding position are good. The forks have a good balance, yielding predictable handling with an acceptable compliant ride. Even the shocks, that bothered me so much last season, seem to be just ok this time out. With that said, I have developed a habit of hovering over the seat when I know I'm going over rough terrain (you can get the boy off a dirt bike, but you can't take the dirt bike out of the boy). Regarding the riding position, I'm 6'1" and 53 years old and and have no problem folding myself in to the correct riding position. I've been riding sportbikes since the early 80's so this position is just natural for me. - Reving the engine beyond 5,000 rpm just makes things shake more. This bike is an ass hammer and it can put your hands to sleep in short order. I wonder if a ported head would help smooth out the power delivery, making large throttle opening more enjoyable? I do find myself short shifting this bike. In any event, I just accept this as part of the bikes strong personality. - Finally, I love motorcycles. I have since I was 10 years old and I hope to enjoy them until the bitter end. So I don't think any of these thoughts are any different then my impressions last year. What is different is that I wasn't comparing this ride to a previous ride on one of my other bikes - which I found myself doing last year. On it's own the CS-1 is a great motorcycle. It's not a 100 mile-a-day bike, but it's a great 25-50 mile partner. It's light, nimble and it's just fun. I'll take fun over many other bike characteristics. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Ruttly on 06/27/16 at 10:14:24 When you get off your bike and take a few steps away and look back at it and all you can do is smile, that's what motorcycling is all about , Fun! |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Tocsik on 06/27/16 at 11:16:30 Amen. I did a little over 100 miles last week on some nice twisties and had a blast. Some of the turns have 10 mph rated signs. I rode up Boulder Canyon (with a detour up Sugarloaf Road and back down) to Nederland, headed North and back down to Lyons and then back home. It was the longest ride I've done on the Savage and it was pure joy. Even though things were a bit cold up in the mountains! I had on my mesh jacket because it was in the 90's "down" in Denver at 5280' altitude. I'm 51, just under 5'10" and my bike has stock suspension and seating. I did need to push back up on the hump occasionally to stretch my legs out and extend the hips. Here's my route (minus the detour up and down Sugarloaf): https://goo.gl/maps/5d3hMPt8qvo Do we have a section on the forum to share rides? I downloaded Rever this past weekend to track and plan some future rides. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Chase on 06/27/16 at 11:29:34 where abouts in NJ gary lets get together for a ride and a brew |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/27/16 at 11:43:22 Congrats on the build! I read the stuff you did on the forks over and over. Question-the folks at Race Tech were hesitant (talked to them on the phone) to go with softer fork springs because the bike was lighter. Their take was that the load on the forks may not have changed much, and the lighter springs might be too light. Now that you have ridden it, are you happy with the front spring rate? As far as the shocks go, I find that some shocks need 500-1000 miles to loosen up (seal stiction). Maybe that is what happened. As for the vibes-a few thoughts: Did you do a different piston? Any chance I have I use a lighter piston and/or wrist pin. And then I get in there with a die grinder and remove more metal if possible. Less mass flying back and forth is better. I also did serious handlebar end weights in a few bikes. Def makes a difference. I'm using short aluminum clip-ons in place of the long steel bars. I'm sure that'll make for buzzier bars. Again, congrats! enjoy :) |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Dave on 06/27/16 at 11:53:37 Gary: I wondered why we had seen/heard so little about your bike this riding season. Hopefully the restaurant will allow you to ride a bit more this summer. I have ridden my Cafe' bike about 7,000 miles since the conversion....several rides have been 250 - 300 miles in a day when I am riding with the group at the Dragon rides. Rest, stretch and fuel stops at less than 100 mile intervals, as the other Savage bikes need to get fuel every 100 miles (I can go about 160 with the GT550 tank). I am 60 years old, about 5'-8" tall, and I weigh about 170 lbs. I love the way the bike handles, and Gary's suspension ideas helped with the handling....I do have 1/2" spacers in the front, and I have dropped the forks in the triple clamps about 1.5" and I have installed emulators. I have Progressive 412 rear shocks with lighter than stock springs and the ride is firm.....so I also come up on the pegs when I see the big holes on the road. I did 2 things that help with the comfort. I got the seat reupholstered and got some padding in the edges of the seat where the RYCA seat has none. I didn't use the RYCA clip ons, and the ones I used had too much downward angle to be comfortable as I had to rotate my wrist too much...........so I welded up new bars for the clip ons that have a 6 degree angle in them - and it allows me to make the bars a bit flatter and not angled down as much. If your bars are not comfortable for you.....consider if having more or less angle would help. If I don't concentrate on keeping my core energized so that I don't lean heavily on the bars....my hands/arm will get numb quickly. If I energize my core and keep from leaning on the bars, I can ride for a couple of hours between stops. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/27/16 at 12:25:00 Hey Chase, we're at different ends of the state. I'm in Warren County - about 150 miles from Cape May. Armen, my sag data suggests that RaceTech's spring dyno is right on. During my tuning of the forks I removed 10mm of oil and that helped with the percentage of travel used (less stiff) and I turned the GVE out an additional 1/4 turn from my initial setting of 2-1/2. My gut feel is that I could remove an additional 5mm of oil and still be good. Handle bar weights are a good idea. Some have suggested filling the bars with bb's. I have the bb's but haven't filled the bars yet. I'm sure this will quell the vibration. I have bar-end mirrors so it's as simple as removing a mirror, laying the bike on its side and filling the bar and reinstalling the mirror BEFORE I stand it up. Got to make sure I remember the last part :) Dave, it's not that I made time to ride, but it that occurred to me that I didn't have to ride with my wife to the cafe. So I took the long route (the cafe is only 0.5 miles from our house, so it's a very long detour) there and back. Besides, a cafe racer parked in front of a cafe is just perfect. I spent as much time outside talking to other riders as I did inside - and that's a good thing. We get a lot of motorcyclists at our cafe. If they know that the owner is one of them...I'm sure I'll get a lot more. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/27/16 at 22:07:31 As far as the vibes-consider this: BBs are steel. Kinda hard, transmit energy/vibration well. Shotgun shot can be lead. Kinda soft, don't transmit vibration well. Dead blow hammers use pellets suspended in oil. Plug up one end, fill with lead shot, when full, pour in oil. Then plug up ;) |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by KennyG on 06/27/16 at 22:13:16 Armen, When you fill the handlebars with lead shot you better hope that your grips last a long time. When you go to replace the grips you will find nothing but powdered lead in the handlebars. I am not sure how to handle lead powder. It would be good if you could fill the bars with molten lead. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/28/16 at 03:32:34 Kenny, Hence the oil. And fill up the ends with epoxy. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by gizzo on 06/28/16 at 14:33:10 A lot of guys in the toy model aeroplaning community use lead shot to balance the model. The MO is to mix the lead shot with epoxy to make a pourable slurry then tip it into the nose. Hold it vertical to let the sludge settle and it goes nowhere. ( I just pour molten lead into the model but that's another story). Maybe that's an option. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Ruttly on 06/28/16 at 15:07:12 All my bikes dirt ,street ,race have bars filled with the cheapest silicone I can find in a chaulking tube at Home Depot, it reduces vibrations caused by harmonic vibration of engine out at the end of the bars, cheap & effective! |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by gizzo on 06/28/16 at 17:21:24 Never heard of that one before. Be good to try it out some time. Thanks :). |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/29/16 at 05:29:48 416667677F6A130 wrote:
I've not heard of this one either. Certainly less weight added to the bike then bb's. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/29/16 at 11:46:05 So, in it's current incarnation, what weight oil, what quantity or level? And current settings on the Emulators? thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Ruttly on 06/29/16 at 12:10:50 It's very easy pump it in with a caulking gun till it comes out other end, put bars in a vise and push tip of tube tight to end of bars and pump it full , if using bar end mirrors leave enough space for them , also found bars don't bend as easy if you take a spill ! |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/29/16 at 13:12:40 043728202B450 wrote:
15wt BelRay Fork Oil (Fork oil weights are all over the place from manufacturer to manufacturer) 140mm air gap 2-3/4 Turns out on the blue spring Preload as required to get the desired sag But with that said, my setting are not what you will use. Your bike weight/configuration, rider weight, spring type and rate and riding style/preferences will determine YOUR final setting. If you want the best ride and performance, you're gonna have to play with the settings a bit. It's well worth the effort. For a baseline I would use: 15wt Fork Oil (I've always used Bel Ray) 2-1/2 Turns on the GVE w/Blue Spring 140mm Air Gap (spring out, GVE in, fork retracted) An adjustable fork cap makes setting preload/sag so much easier, and it just looks right. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/29/16 at 13:22:42 Thanks muchly for the info. It'll provide a good starting point. Got the pre-load adjustable caps. Cheap and easy on Ebay, and lighter than stock ;) At 140 lbs, I might be doing lighter fork oil. Now that I've stripped so much crapola off the bike, it's easy to work on. Really appreciate your efforts. thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/16 at 15:30:17 With 140 pounds of you, some mods, some weight reduction on the bike and you'll be making some pretty fun zero to sixty times.. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/30/16 at 06:24:19 52617E767D130 wrote:
You body weight doesn't have a significant effect for this element. In forks with GVE's, the weight of the fork oil controls the rate of rebound damping. If you need to slow rebound use a heavier weight oil (by the same manufacturer as there is no consistency between manufacturers). Do the opposite to quicken rebound. Damping is the interplay between the spring and the valving. The spring handles the vast majority of weight transfer, but the damping (rebound and compression) takes that mechanical movement and controls its speed (by converting it into heat). Compression (adjusted by the nut in the GVE) is the rate at which the fork compresses like when you hit a bump or grab a hand-full of brakes. Rebound is the time it takes for the spring to return to (or seek) it's home point. The amount of rebound in the forks determines the "plushness" of the forks. At one end of the spectrum you can have forks that have a plush ride, but handling will suffer - the forks will lack feedback to the rider making the bike feel vague or as I like to say, spooky. At the opposite end of the spectrum you can have a suspension that is rough riding and it will feel "darty". I'd start off with 15wt oil. If the forks feel "floaty" like a 1970's Cadillac then you'll want to increase the viscosity. Even if the forks feel plush, but are darty, you will need to use a lower viscosity. 15wt works well in most applications and is a good baseline. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/30/16 at 06:37:06 Here's a graph I found on Sport Rider |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Armen on 06/30/16 at 07:23:07 Thanks. The last bike I out Emulators in, i started with 15W as per their instructions, and ended up going lighter. 10w, I think. |
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Title: Re: Thoughts on my RYCA Cafe Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/01/16 at 06:16:26 I've been thinking about the tuning aspect of the cafe style forks. I gave it enough thought to write up a simple "how to" on tuning the forks. This can be found in my fork thread in the tech section. It has been written for someone that knows they they want to make changes, but doesn't know what to change or why it needs to be changed. |
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