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Message started by hotprops on 06/25/16 at 16:07:38

Title: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/25/16 at 16:07:38

by turning the key off to the taillight on position on a sunny day putting key in my pocket and going inside for a fey days. SO i am thinking of cutting the wire to the ignition switch feeding the rear running light . anybody do this? what was the manufacturer thinking enabling the key to be removed with the light on? can i do this modification or is the rear running light turned on in both settings of the switch and if so,
could i just add it to the headlight power wire . i have not pulled the bike apart yet to look around as i am waiting for the new battery.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Serowbot on 06/25/16 at 16:19:33

20273C383A27383B480 wrote:

SO i am thinking of cutting the wire to the ignition switch feeding the rear running light . anybody do this?

Yup,.. I did mine years ago. Works fine...
The switch is now, off-on-off...8-)

Did ya' try a long slow charge on the battery?... like 1 amps for 10 or 12 hours?...

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by batman on 06/25/16 at 20:42:18

It shouldn't kill a new battery,a one or two amp charger should bring it back.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/25/16 at 22:41:50

in garage for week before i found it .i was away . 1.6 v left in a glass mat batt . i would never trust it . i will try to charge it and get some good volt checks and will give to any one who wants it. SO here is the real problem, toned the wires to/ from the key switch and i am sure of the following [2009 bike} 1.key switch out{kso} red white into bike connector to 1 red black. 2. orange kso to 2 wires orange black one smaller .3.2 brown wires kso to 2 small brown with small green dot. 4. grey kso to to orange green or grey dot cant tell. this wire does nothing when hit to ground or batt + in any of the 3 switch positions switch only not conected to bike. SO what does the grey kso wire do. why 2 brown dot going to brown kso? only wires hot in the rear light sitting key position is one brown to 2 smaller brown green dot wires. is the key switch providing ground in some positions and hot in others

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/26/16 at 00:27:39

i have been at it for 5 hours and have 60 years of experience. without slicing and dicing the wire loom its a no go . s,bot i respect you and your knowledge.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/16 at 01:41:12

Open the switch, defeat the contacts.
Or, modify it so it won't go to Park.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Serowbot on 06/26/16 at 08:04:42

70776C686A77686B180 wrote:

. s,bot i respect you and your knowledge.

Then you really don't know me... ;D

Wiring may have changed in newer models... Mine's a 97'...
Is the ACC position still just tailight?... or did they go to flashers?...

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by VortecCPI on 06/26/16 at 09:12:20

You won't ruin a battery by running it down. Put it on a charger and it will be fine.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Dave on 06/26/16 at 09:30:19

340D1016070121322B620 wrote:

You won't ruin a battery by running it down. Put it on a charger and it will be fine.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Kris01 on 06/26/16 at 10:17:23

Does this help?

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/26/16 at 12:04:31

thanks for the diagram .looks like no way to do it unless i take the switch apart . anybody ever do that?

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/16 at 12:25:56

Basic rules

Clear work area.
Clean floor.
Good light.
Once you get it ready to come apart, go Slow.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by VortecCPI on 06/27/16 at 06:01:12

68535E4958544F49525A57483B0 wrote:

[quote author=340D1016070121322B620 link=1466896058/0#7 date=1466957540]You won't ruin a battery by running it down. Put it on a charger and it will be fine.

That used to be true with the acid/plate battery technology. The Absorbed Glass Matt batteries and gell batteries are not as tolerant about being fully discharged.....or charged with a charger rated at more than 1.5 - 2 amps.

The old "wet" batteries also used to give you some warning when they were getting near the end of their life.....they would slowly get weak. The new batteries can work fine......then fail without warning.[/quote]

I have a lead-acid in the LS650 and had lead-acid batteries in the CRF230 and SRX600. All have been fully discharged and stone dead and all have come back just fine. I now have a SLA in the SRX600 and it too comes back from being stone dead.

All the UPS we have use SLA batteries and they are often run until dead. Cycle count is what kills them, not a full discharge. As for the other types of batteries you listed I'm not too sure how they apply to our LS650 street bike. All the ones I have seen use old-school lead-acid batteries.

As far as charging them I thought it was common knowledge to use as little current as possible. I guess I was wrong on that one.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Dave on 06/27/16 at 06:09:34

Several members have turned their switch the wrong way......and killed their batteries. Not all of them were new batteries - but they did fail to work again after being deeply discharged.

Battery University:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by VortecCPI on 06/27/16 at 06:30:31

142F2235242833352E262B34470 wrote:

Very interesting but the LS650 in my garage (and many bikes I have seen) have old-school lead-acid batteries with vent lines and caps for adding water and acid. They are all definitely "spillable".

We also see boats at the dock all the time with dead conventional lead-acid batteries and they almost always come back after a charge. Interesting that we have such issues with the LS650.

Perhaps these new lead-acid batteries are a trend only on new bikes? According to the page you provided "AGM is the preferred battery for upscale motorcycles". I guess the old LS650 doesn't fall in that category.

Some examples from DK:

https://www.denniskirk.com/parts-unlimited/heavy-duty-12-volt-battery-rcb14lb2.p20882.prd/20882.sku

https://www.denniskirk.com/yuasa/yumicron-high-powered-12-volt-battery-yb14l-b2.p20497.prd/20497.sku

Our dirt bikes can not use conventional capped-and-vented lead-acid batteries because they often end up upside-down. I use a tiny SLA in the SRX600 just to pass inspection. It has a separate magneto for the ignition so a battery isn't even required.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by batman on 06/27/16 at 08:17:32

Vortec the batteries you see in boats are usually deep cycle and can be run flat and recharged ,when compared to motorcycle batteries we"re talking apples and oranges.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by VortecCPI on 06/27/16 at 08:40:48

7A796C7579762C20180 wrote:

Vortec the batteries you see in boats are usually deep cycle and can be run flat and recharged ,when compared to motorcycle batteries we"re talking apples and oranges.

Very good point. Thank you.

I found something interesting here: http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/faqs

"If an OPTIMA battery is deeply discharged (below 10.5 volts), most basic chargers will not supply a charge. Also keep in mind that an OPTIMA battery will not recharge properly if treated as a regular flooded or gel battery. To charge the battery, you can wire a second fully charged automotive battery (12+volts) to the discharged AGM in parallel (+ to + and – to –). Then hook up the charger to the deeply discharged battery, setting the charger at 10 parallel_charging_illustration_edit.gifamps. Leave for two hours, monitoring frequently. During this process, if the discharged battery gets very hot or if it is venting (hissing sound from vents), then stop this process immediately. When the discharged battery reaches 10.5 volts or more, remove the standard battery and continue charging the AGM until fully charged.

For normal charging, a relatively low current, such as one or two amps, can work well, but when the battery has been deeply discharged, some sulfation of the battery plates may have occurred. If you charge at 10 amps, the higher current will help to break up this sulfation.

If you have an automatic charger, let it run until the charger indicates charging is complete. If you have a manual charger, you can get a rough estimate of the charging time in hours of a completely discharged battery (11.2 volts) by multiplying the capacity (amp hours or Ah) of the battery by 1.2. If your battery is not completely discharged, the time would be less.

In most cases these steps will recover an AGM battery. It’s OK for the AGM battery to get slightly warm during the charging process. If it’s hot to the touch, it means there’s a short and the process should be discontinued."

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/27/16 at 09:22:04

ok, i wonder how many of us have done this as i have .i will try to come up with a fix after i get new battery.any and all ideas welcome. to switch gears what was the mfgr thinking of giving us this great feature? i can see it being a bonus if you could not remove the key. >:(

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by VortecCPI on 06/27/16 at 09:37:16

7F78636765786764170 wrote:

100% agreed. My wife has done this several times and it is a truly annoying non-value-added "feature".

Does anybody know if the ignition will fire when bump-starting with a dead battery?

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by verslagen1 on 06/27/16 at 09:44:10

447D6066777151425B120 wrote:

Does anybody know if the ignition will fire when bump-starting with a dead battery?

It's gotta have something.
In dire circumstances, I've disconnected the headlight and got it to start.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by verslagen1 on 06/27/16 at 09:49:00

10293432232505160F460 wrote:

100% agreed. My wife has done this several times and it is a truly annoying non-value-added "feature".

I believe it's a EU mandated function.

simplest fix would be to replace the affected tail light with LED.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/16 at 09:53:39

Usually people step in a bear trap once or twice and learn.
Odds are that the negative consequences of this single event will sear enough pain receptors in the budgetary and Ohh, Dang what a Hassle areas of the brain to keep it from ever happening again. I'd stick a battery in and ride.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by Kris01 on 06/27/16 at 17:14:31

Verslagen is right. Many European countries require a light while parked. Just disable that part of the ignition switch or wiring harness.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by hotprops on 06/28/16 at 12:05:57

Kris, that's what i want to do but cant figure it out on this year bike .bear trap or not it will happen again .Versa good idea but i have a flasher on the brake light ,and it is looking for more resistance than a led can provide.

Title: Re: ruined brand new battery
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/28/16 at 12:13:30

You can attach a Stop to the switch externally. A stub of hard wire Jb welded on the lock cylinder and something that it will hit, stopping it , keeping it from turning to Park Lamp.