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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Exhaust port goop /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1466348520 Message started by Armen on 06/19/16 at 08:02:00 |
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Title: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 08:02:00 I'm going to try some of this stuff on my sacrificial head to smooth out some of the crazy bad transitions in the exhaust port. A few of the guys on the chassis design forum mentioned it. Haven't tried it yet. $30 and a little bead blasting. Not a big risk. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/man-40180 -Armen |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Serowbot on 06/19/16 at 08:31:51 That's pricey epoxy,... considering it has only one good review and one really bad one... :-? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 09:09:12 The guys from the chassis forum usually know their stuff. Summit usually carries good products. Online reviews aren't worth the paper they're not written on. If it holds up to exhaust heat, it's worth the $30. I've used JB Weld on intake ports with not problems, but don't think it'll hold up to exhaust heat. In the grand scheme of things, $30 to gain better flow is a deal. I'll be spending hours on this head. I never bill out at less than a dollar a minute, so the value of my time is way more than the cost of the goop. YMMV |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by old.indian on 06/19/16 at 09:18:03 I have to assume that you are doing quite a bit of machining to remove the factory cast restrictions in the exuast port. I'd be interested in seeing your final result. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 09:25:40 Well, after I soak and blast all the crud out, I'll get in there with a die grinder and make is as polite as possible. Admittedly, hard to do with the depth of the valve spring seats. So, I'm hoping the goop will help me ease the transitions. It ain't going to be great. I'm just hoping for less horrible. This month in Cycle World Kevin Cameron talks about the work the legendary Kenny Augustine did on a set of XR750 heads. He found that the ex ports were so bad it was hindering flow so much he couldn't move more air through the engine. If it doesn't help, at least I tried. -Armen |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 09:56:59 Is the goal to streamline the approach to the lump in the way of the exhaust gas stream? I agree that JB Weld won't hang in the heat of That kitchen. I have some high temperature epoxy that cost considerably more. But, exhaust gas temperature is way too high, even for it. Excerpt Ooopsies,,, looks like I got the whole thing... Mmmkay , this is a hot rod engine, so, probably higher compression and generally hotter, but I don't see how a resin mix is gonna survive in a stream of hot gas. Might get soft and shoot it like a gooey spitwad into your exhaust... the result of which would probably be a pretty quick and noticeable decrease in exhaust gas flow,, if ya get my drift. I'm not seeing better than six hundred degree stuff. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/additional-how-to/1504-when-do-gas-exhaust-temperatures-become-cause-for-concern/ When Do Exhaust Gas Temperatures Become A Cause For Concern?When Do Exhaust Gas Temperatures Become A Cause For Concern?The All Wheel Drive 2.7L Ecoboost 2017 Ford Fusion Is Packing 325HP & 380 Lb-Ft!Vintage Inlines Launches to Continue Helping Inline-Six EnthusiastsMore Cars and Pics From Lambrecht Chevrolet - Hot Rod Magazine Blog Hot Rod » Additional How To When Do Exhaust Gas Temperatures Become A Cause For Concern? Written by Marlan Davis on March 5, 2015 Contributors: Holley/Weiand When Do Exhaust Gas Temperatures Become A Cause For Concern? View All 3 Photos SHARE THIS ARTICLE FACEBOOK TWITTER GOOGLE+ EMAIL Q: I have a 1940 Ford four-door pickup street rod with a 1974 Corvette four-bolt-main 350 and a 700-R4 transmission. I had the engine bored 0.030-over and totally rebuilt. It has a mild Edelbrock cam, hydraulic lifters, and a geardrive. It has ceramic-coated headers. I am concerned some cylinders are running hot. When the engine has warmed up, using my infrared thermometer I get these readings on the header tubes at idle: Cylinder No. 1 300 degrees F. Cylinder No. 2 300 degrees F. Cylinder No. 3 530 degrees F. Cylinder No. 4 450 degrees F. Cylinder No. 5 360 degrees F. Cylinder No. 6 470 degrees F. Cylinder No. 7 350 degrees F. Cylinder No. 8 390 degrees F. I have three cylinders running hotter than the others. I have asked several mechanics and one engine builder what could cause this, but none has an answer. Maybe this is nothing to be concerned about? Hal Bennett Spotify Premium For $0.99 Play Any Artist, Album or Playlist. Try 3 Months of Premium for $0.99. See www.Spotify.com A: You’re right, it’s nothing to be concerned about. At-idle exhaust gas temperature (EGT) readings on a gasoline-fueled motor just aren’t accurate. “No-load EGT temperature readings are meaningless,” proclaims engine builder Ken Duttweiler. That’s because fuel metering is still controlled by the idle system, so the fuel dispersal pattern and distribution isn’t at all uniform, and thus not indicative of what the engine sees under running conditions. “There needs to be air/fuel movement, so you can’t expect equal EGTs at idle,” explains Westech Performance’s Steve Brulé. “At that point, the fuel is just dribbling in through the carb’s idle transfer slot; there’s no real atomization.” In other words, temp readings need to be taken under load—at least at a steady-state, light-throttle, 3,000 rpm for no less than 30 seconds; even better would be at wide-open-throttle (WOT). Either way, realistically, that requires an engine or chassis dyno. But even under load, gross EGT readings are affected by so many different factors that they should not be considered a primary reliable tuning aid. First, the ceramic coating on the headers throws off the reading; you really want actual in-tube gas temperatures, which means thermocouples on every tube. Second, the readings need to be taken at the same distance on each tube relative to the exhaust flange. Third, even if the measurements are taken at the same distance from the flange, bends in the tubes will change the readings: The tighter the bend, the higher the observed temperature. Fourth, the observed temperatures can vary due to many factors, including intake manifold design, carburetor tuning, and ignition timing. For example, adding more ignition advance reduces EGT, because the mixture is burning earlier. Leaning out the carburetor raises EGT. And intake manifold runners on a single four-barrel intake are not all the same length. To a large extent, when reading actual temperatures, you need to have prior experience of what was previously considered “normal” for the particular combination. On that basis, EGT deviations from the known, good baseline would indicate a need for further investigation. The New Buick® Sedans Sleek, Stylish & Ready to Move You. Visit Buick.com to See Photos Today See Buick.com/Photos_Buick_Sedan Having said that, according to Brulé, the “correct” EGT is the temperature at which your engine is making its best power over the duration of time and rpm it will be running at. Every engine combo’s slightly different, so engine builders are often reluctant to quote exact numbers. If you pin him down, Duttweiler will quote, 900–1,000 degrees on the outside of the tube at 3,000 rpm after 30 seconds under load. “Coated headers may be 200–300 degrees cooler, so figure about 700 degrees with them. As for WOT readings, on a gasoline, normally aspirated engine, I consider 1,200–1,300 degrees normal; add another 300–400 degrees on a boosted engine. If I see a 400-degree disparity between the range of cylinders, it would be a concern.” Brulé adds, “If you see 800 degrees or 1,700 degrees on a naturally aspirated engine at WOT, obviously, that’s out of the ballpark. Remember, wide open is where these things become critical.” WOW!!!!! You found a serious product... Manley Miracle Seal Epoxy This two part adhesive is best for repairing exhaust ports and any other parts that are subject to high temperatures up to 1350 degrees. Can be sanded after curing. Mixing sticks included. That just might work out. Have you considered building a framework, like rebar, or using a mesh, like a stainless steel scrubbie to help it stay together? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Ruttly on 06/19/16 at 10:27:21 Don't take much off the hump just make it smooth , the head isnt very thick right there , too thin there it will cook the oil in the pocket by valve springs , concentrate removal at outlet and just below valve seats , round off all sharp edges in combustion chamber to reduce detonation , on intake side area just below valve seats at smooth casting flaws , you really don't need to bondo anything |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 10:29:49 Thanks for the hint. I'll see it clearer when I get all the carbon off. Luckily I have a head that ate a valve and can be sacrificed. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 11:41:54 Have you considered shaping it a bit like a wing? I played with the sleeve on an Enya 35, shaped it, trying to drive the charge into the cylinder better. I think it helped. Knowing how far from coil bound the springs are with the cam driving the valve to Full open Could be good. If you have some room you might be able to shift the mass to protect the oil upwards and gain a sixteenth or an eighth. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Ruttly on 06/19/16 at 12:01:46 I should have taken pics of mine , it turned out very nice and it hauls ass . But it breathes very nice no hesitation no coughing or farting/popping all nice smooth usable power. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 12:04:05 Ruttly, Did you open up the restriction at the outlet side? Match the ID of the header pipe? thanks, -Armen |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by batman on 06/19/16 at 12:27:13 I think your in trouble if your using epoxy in the exhaust ,it starts softening at 140 degrees,If you read the reviews it said it was used on the intake manifold ,a whole different animal. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 12:30:08 Manley Miracle Seal Epoxy This two part adhesive is best for repairing exhaust ports and any other parts that are subject to high temperatures up to 1350 degrees. Can be sanded after curing. Mixing sticks included. I missed what you are saying. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Ruttly on 06/19/16 at 12:51:54 Yes I removed that entire ring . I left the gasket in port for sizing and to protect gasket area from slip ups with dremel type grinder . That is the worst exhaust port I've ever seen I just had to have my way with it . It may have lost some low end torque from the porting but it's smooth and it's fast . Super fun to ride but the brakes suck,working on that ! |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 13:08:37 Rear lockup ? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Serowbot on 06/19/16 at 15:15:27 Here's what I did with mine... before... http://i35.tinypic.com/242dh.jpg after... http://i36.tinypic.com/4keetf.jpg |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Ruttly on 06/19/16 at 15:22:17 No Justin is kinda ok with that Ryca brake rod with the 2 bends seems to give alittle locks up but not like stock it has some feel to it and just bought that disc setup from Shawn just not installed yet , Suzuki brake is crap , bike hauls ass but takes forever to stop ! |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Ruttly on 06/19/16 at 15:27:33 Justin I still has oem rear shoes what is cure for lock up ? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 16:10:18 Hey Serowbot, Lots of time involved in that. Looks very promising. I'll throw my head in the sheep dip tomorrow and start the cleaning rituals. I'm also going to work on all the casting flashings that block the airflow along the sides of the head. I still think removing the left side may be a good thing. With the tank I have, it's pretty tough to get to the plug, and I don't think all that metal is adding as much to the cooling as it blocks airflow to the plug area. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 16:11:28 Roughed out. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 16:22:51 735455554D58210 wrote:
I pulled the brake assembly and used a handheld grinder to chamfer the ends of the shoes and cut grooves across the faces of the shoes, decreasing the contact are by between a fourth and a third. If I had kept it I would have done a little more. Can't put it back, so, if you do it, start with less cutting. If you angle the grooves a bit you can make it spit the dust out. I could modulate the pressure and vary the braking and actually Feel the pedal against my boot before it would lock up. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 16:24:25 487B646C67090 wrote:
THere is a simple mod to make it swing out and gain access to the plug. IIRC, it's the right side,, the one that the vent tube runs through. Gotta cut the strap that runs behind the tube, and shorten a bolt by cutting the head off, leaving a bump tall enough to keep it from rotating out. Seat that short bolt and Locktite it. You can use the other bolt normally. It will hold it down and trapped on the short bolt. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 16:45:09 Justin, No idea what you are saying. I was talking about access to the spark plug. Plug is on the left side of the head. Gas tank blocks access with the extra metal on the left side of the head. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 17:48:30 The trim that blocks access can be modified. I don't remember which side, |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/19/16 at 17:59:41 If you mean the chrome stuff, that's long gone. I was talking about the actual casting. Take a look at the pic of the butchered head. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 18:35:59 I can't see well on the kindle. Sorry for the contusion. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by batman on 06/21/16 at 16:33:05 When I read that it can be sanded after curing I got scared! How hard can this stuff be if it can be sanded? I've used epoxy in industry ,but when it cured it couldn't be sanded,and some contained ceramic beads for heat and wear resistance. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by Armen on 06/21/16 at 17:13:13 Batman, Steel can be sanded, too. Don't lose too much sleep over semantics. :o |
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Title: Re: Exhaust port goop Post by batman on 06/21/16 at 19:19:36 armen ,I hope the stuff is super-epoxy and works for you.I love the fact that people on this site are trying new things,it benefits us all.good luck,please keep us in the loop. |
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