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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Constitutional Carry /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1466200447 Message started by pg on 06/17/16 at 14:54:07 |
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Title: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 06/17/16 at 14:54:07 If you weren't aware there is something referred as constitutional carry and 10 states offer some form of it. Each state has it's own stipulation; although, they all offer some kind permit-less carry option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry Bot, Az is on that list, you pack'n heat...... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/16 at 15:44:56 Eaux, Lookie! The map changes, the murder rate drops. Ohh, Gee, shuckey darn,,, no reason to believe that more guns in the hands of good people equals less killing. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 06/17/16 at 16:20:56 Nope,.. I don't carry... never felt that scared... Plus,.. guns are awkward to carry... I do have a BFK, big friikin knife, on my bike... but it's just for show, and cuttin' things. It's a bit of an experiment... I found it in the road, and have since been carrying it openly on my bike. ...waiting to see how long before someone pinches it... 3 months so far... ...(rode 90 miles today in 100+ heat for a cheeseburger)... (had to get a last ride before temps go to 110+ next week)... 107 now... Could hit 117 on Sunday!!! :o (hottest day in Tucson history)... Next week I ain't going anywhere without air-conditioning... ;D :-? http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/DSC00139_zpseb79vhew.jpg |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 06/17/16 at 17:49:28 I thought it was an interesting topic given the recent debate. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/16 at 17:57:19 The map morphed to show the change in laws and as the number of guns ballooned and the murder rate drops. Yeah, less is more. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 06/17/16 at 18:26:41 JOG,.. the chart shows expansion of carry laws,.... it says nothing about murder rate drop... |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/17/16 at 18:34:13 No, Bot, IT doesn't. Are you saying that the murder rate has not been documented as dropping? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 06/17/16 at 19:00:37 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low The US homicide rate in 2014, the most recent year available, was 4.5 per 100,000. The 2014 total follows a long downward trend and is the lowest homicide rate recorded since 1963 when the rate was 4.6 per 100,000. To find a lower homicide rate, we must travel back to 1957 when the total homicide rate hit 4.0 per 100,000. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 10:36:21 Perfect moment... What was Known? Everyone has been exposed to the facts. The murder rate is Down and has been going down for years. The map showed a basic timeline of the changing laws, as it has slowly been made easier and easier for citizens to carry. During THAT time, murder rates dropped. But, since the map of the changing laws Didn't also Show the coinciding Drop in murder rate, Bot tried to pretend that what is the single most obvious truth to grasp was somehow not true. Yes, Bot, you're correct. The map Does not show the murder rate. But, when you decide to Seek the Truth and stop throwing away everything that conflicts with the narrative, you too will understand reality. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 06/19/16 at 12:51:21 I am a bit surprised their aren't more takers on this one. We have 10 states where nearly anyone can pack heat..... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/16 at 13:29:29 When facts smash beliefs and talking points, they have Just EXACTLY enough good sense to walk away. Juuust another smidgen of sense and a few pounds of honesty and Whammo,,,, instant Second Amendment supporters. And they are Not staying around for That..... |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Paraquat on 06/20/16 at 09:17:51 Get out of here with your facts, reasoning, and logic. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by verslagen1 on 06/22/16 at 10:36:45 Usually, the bouncer is outside guarding the door, not inside having a good time. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Ruttly on 06/27/16 at 18:50:09 California couldn't be on that list, way to many people in this state That need to be shot, ok just pistol whipped,lol |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by webbrob on 07/02/16 at 21:59:51 4157405D45505D46320 wrote:
It isn't about scared. My wife says the same thing about having guns in the house, she "doesn't like living in fear". It's about preparation. Being in the military I carried a gun for a long time in a place where people shoot at you. Here it is just about having a gun and not needing it compared to rolling into a situation, and by some remote chance needing one and not having it. I still frequent gun free zones, but I severely limit my time in them. I wonder what happened to that LCDR who was packing when the recruiting center got hit. It is against the UCMJ for us to carry personal weapons on base, and for someone like me (paygrade wise), I would probably see brig time for that. I would discuss my discomfort with that, but I prefer not to give them (the bad people) ideas like the press does all of the time. :P |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by webbrob on 07/02/16 at 22:03:08 I do dig the knife though... |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/16 at 06:19:00 57454242524F42200 wrote:
It isn't about scared. My wife says the same thing about having guns in the house, she "doesn't like living in fear". It's about preparation. Being in the military I carried a gun for a long time in a place where people shoot at you. Here it is just about having a gun and not needing it compared to rolling into a situation, and by some remote chance needing one and not having it. I still frequent gun free zones, but I severely limit my time in them. I wonder what happened to that LCDR who was packing when the recruiting center got hit. It is against the UCMJ for us to carry personal weapons on base, and for someone like me (paygrade wise), I would probably see brig time for that. I would discuss my discomfort with that, but I prefer not to give them (the bad people) ideas like the press does all of the time. :P[/quote] How does she feel about wearing a seat belt? Does she feel like she is Inviting a flat tire by carrying a spare? Jumper cables? Begging for a dead battery.. Don't live in FEAR! Be unprepared and pretend that by Being unprepared for a problem, That problem will not arise. If you have savings, and Could swing a big repair bill on the car, take it out of the bank, go on a cruise. It's Irrational to say that having a weapon causes fear. If someone is afraid Of the weapon, then training in handling and shooting are in order. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by HovisPresley on 07/03/16 at 12:16:49 "If someone is afraid Of the weapon, then training in handling and shooting are in order." Do you have MnSpring's number? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/16 at 12:59:32 Nope,, and we are far apart.. She needs a 22 rifle to start with. Poke some Short cartridge s in. Ear protection, big, close target.. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/03/16 at 13:34:13 JOG,.. didn't you say, sometimes a helmet helps, sometimes it doesn't?... Sometimes a gun might help,.. sometimes it might get you killed... When a 911 call goes out for a "man with a gun"... Police are looking for a man with a gun... That's often all they have to go on... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/16 at 14:22:41 Well, nothing is perfect. Life isn't predictable. Sometimes wearing a seatbelt Doesn't save your life, but, is that reason enough to Not wear one? Disarming societies has been done. It's not as great as people want to believe. Nobody has been able to create utopia. Being unable to protect life and family isn't a comfort. And yes, I have crashed when a helmet would have killed me. I have crashed and not hit my head. I have crashed and Smashed my face. And, only one time was I wearing a helmet. And Boy am I glad. By your logic, children should not have a pellet gun, because cops sometimes shoot them. Maybe training cops better is a good idea. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/03/16 at 14:29:09 Yep, that's when unwise or irresponsible cops gun down innocent people. Law enforcement is a tough job, now isn't it? Screw up, and everyone automatically hates you. :-/ Too many people automatically identify anyone with a weapon as criminal scum or a threat. Some cops are probably among those, making the situation worse. Some people who are armed simply don't want to be a victim. Those who are not martial arts masters or don't carry weapons have to assume and hope that they will be okay defenseless in a tough, dangerous world. Some places have plentiful law enforcement. Others don't. You can never assume that you can order "instant cop" like Wile E. Coyote does in cartoons. You can't assume that calling for help is going to be a better solution that taking care of yourself, especially when it comes to speed. A bullet is much faster than a squad car, and a fist is swifter than an officer running around the block. If you rely on the government to help you, often the best thing they can do is try to catch and punish your murderer. They are not always going to help you either. Sometimes they'll end up slapping you in the face and screwing you over. The government goes by that old idea... everyone's friend = no one's friend. Serowbot, lately I've been becoming more liberal in my thinking, and I have lately been losing my religion. However, I hold on to the idea that we should be free to defend ourselves and secure the means to do so. This includes lethal weapons. Now tell me... How do you defend yourself in highly populated, liberal places like New York City or-- worse-- London? I don't even think you can carry PEPPER SPRAY in England! Seriously!?!? Wouldn't that make you feel very insecure? Not that I carry weapons everywhere--simply that the man won't let you! Anybody can beat your brains out and you can't do a stinking thing about it! >:( By order of the government! >:( I guess I'll have to carry a walking stick if I go to Britain. Surely they wouldn't ban those. If any of those anti-weapon g-men gets suspicious, I'll just limp about and say I have a bad knee. :P What if you drove through some place crazy like that and got thrown in jail and got your life ruined over that knife you've got stuck in your bike? Worse--what if they called it a felony? See, it's not about being thrown in jail. It's about the endless fines, fees, probation, lost rights, and social ostracisation. You lose your rights; the government pokes, prods, and takes your money; and society spits on you. People don't want to hire you, marry you, trust you, or anything. Fortunately, I've never gone through that, so I don't really know, but I reckon it's a nightmare. When everything is illegal...When everything is a felony... I'm not talking about some abstract dystopia... I'm talking about something not far from current reality. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/03/16 at 14:45:36 Right, JOG. My uncle told me about how a T-Bone wreck can make wearing a seatbelt more dangerous than none. Even so, sometimes preventative measures helps. Though I've scraped up my helmet. I've never had a wreck where I remember hitting my head hard on the pavement. Usually, the biggest thing is road rash. Honestly, while it might be fun to go without leather, if I hadn't worn my jacket, especially in my last wreck, I'd have been torn to shreds. I've come to the conclusion that, usually, I take the most damage to the forearm. It's naturally how I hit the ground and slide. While a helmet may save your life or face when you actually hit your head, the most useful protection for everyday scuffs is simply clothing because it guards against one of the few things that's almost guaranteed to happen in an unprotected crash... Road Rash Carrying a weapon may not save you every time. It may make things worse. But it will give you a fighting chance. It's about the freedom and power to defend yourself, not exactly whether or not it's guaranteed to work. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/03/16 at 16:07:23 0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
Never count on the other guy, to be smart... ;D |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/03/16 at 16:25:00 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBiJB8YuDBQ[/media] |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/03/16 at 16:41:33 If one guy had a gun in orlando, it might have been different. That's the point, might have been. Ultimately, I'm Pro-choice .......on gun control, on conceal carry. The government can't tell me what to do with my body. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/16 at 16:52:11 6076617C64717C67130 wrote:
Never count on the other guy, to be smart... ;D[/quote] Really, dude? How irritating... Without the giggling idiot face, it wouldn't have been so bad, but really.. No, betting on the other guy to not be a douche seems like a generally bad bet,, I get it. But, expecting people to self censor because they are surrounded by idiots isn't exactly right, either, is it? And Why are we Unable to expect reasoned, intelligent behavior from our cops? Maybe it's got something to do with hiring and training policies. Now, read this, then go giggle in the closet. if your IQ is too.high police will not hire × ALLNEWSIMAGESVIDEOSMAPSSHOPPINGBOOKSFLIGHTSAPPSSEARCH TOOLS Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News abcnews.go.com › story Sep 8, 2000 - Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops. ... a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an ... did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same ... your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender ... US Court Says it's Okay for Police Departments to Refuse to Hire ... thefreethoughtproject.com › court-police... Sep 28, 2014 - Ever wonder why cops yell “quit resisting” as they beat a ... They apparently believed that Jordan was too smart to be ... with high IQs “because it matters not whether the city's decision ... Can Someone Be Too Smart To Be A Cop? - MintPress News www.mintpressnews.com › can-someone... Jun 18, 2014 - Ever called a police officer “stupid” or questioned whether he ... opt to not hire someone simply because he or she scores too .... I share your concern about them having to revamp their ..... Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops Ex-CIA Contractor Confirms: Police Departments Use ... - Filming Cops filmingcops.com › ex-cia-contractor-con... Do Your Probiotics Pass The Milk Test? ... WASHINGTON, DC — Police departments in the US will not hire prospective applicants as ... Evidently if an applicant shows signs of relatively high IQ — with excellent .... must not be too stupid! Police officially refuse to hire applicants with high IQ scores - ... reddit › conspiracy › comments › police... Jul 26, 2014 - You cant make quotas when you're protecting and serving. ...... daily, the reason they give is if your too smart you will move on to ... I believe the bar was an IQ of 104. http://politicalblindspot.com/police-officially-refuse-to-hire- ... Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ Scores ... politicalblindspot.com › police-officially-... Oct 30, 2013 - That's not to say that all cops are stupid… Just that if you're too smart, the police simply won't hire you. Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ Scores ... countercurrentnews.com › 2014/04 › pol... Apr 21, 2014 - Submit Your Story · Legal Disclaimer ... Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ ... if you are too smart, police departments simply won't hire you. ... Police Department made it clear that they did not want the ... CONNECTICUT - Judge Rules That Police Can Bar High IQ Scores The New York Times › nyregion › metro... Sep 9, 1999 - ... of his high test scores. But he said that that did not mean Mr. Jordan was a victim of discrimination. US Court Ruled You Can Be “Too Smart” to Be a Cop | Global ... www.globalresearch.ca › us-court-ruled-... Dec 18, 2014 - Police department disqualifies anyone whose IQ is “too high" ... The score meant Jordan had an IQ of 125. ... “Those who scored too high could get bored with police ... well does this hiring practice bode for cops actually being ... Do You Have A High IQ Score And Want To Be A Cop?... Forget It ... www.knowthelies.com › node Jul 28, 2014 - That's not to say that all cops are stupid… If you're too smart, the police simply won't hire |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/03/16 at 18:11:38 Cough: incomplete links :cough: cough: must have :cough: deep links :cough: [smiley=engel017.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/16 at 18:29:34 I copied the page. You can look up key words. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/03/16 at 19:58:32 Okay |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Paraquat on 07/05/16 at 11:03:35 The one in Connecticut is true. Guy applied to be a trooper, his life's dream, and was shut down because his IQ was too high. He took the test three times before saying he was going to take legal action. I don't carry because I'm afraid. I carry because it allows me to not be afraid. God created man. Samuel Colt made them even. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/05/16 at 19:47:17 live by the gun, die by the gun, death is a direct effect of guns, not a side effect, a direct effect, that's what they do, I doubt that half those with concealed carry licenses even actually fully recognize that, but hey, if it makes you feel good!!! Quote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/ Webster "If one guy had a gun in orlando, it might have been different. That's the point, might have been. Ultimately, I'm Pro-choice .......on gun control, on conceal carry. The government can't tell me what to do with my body." Actually, there were PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED armed security guards there WITH GUNS. Quote:
http://graphics.wsj.com/orlando-shooting/ |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by oldNslow on 07/05/16 at 19:58:55 Quote:
And they did such a good frickin job that 49 unarmed people got shot dead. How do you know that a couple of amateurs might not have had better results? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/16 at 20:26:18 You're looking at Learned Helplessness If a Trained Perfeshunall didn't get it done, No Mere Mortal Could! It's a mental illness. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/05/16 at 20:40:48 605E5F53415D5C320 wrote:
I don't, and neither do you. I don't know what the situation was like, what the layout was, what the environment was like, how committed the security guard was, but the reality is, a violent offense had a violent defense, and the offense won, because that's the natural order of thing, the surpriser/aggressor wins most of the time and they are more committed to achieving their goals. it's hard to play defender man, you are automatically behind in the event. This romantic idea that a good guy with a gun is the only answer, well, I hope that makes you feel good, cause that's about all it's good for. be observant, get training, buy guns, just realize it's all just to make you feel good, and that's fine, but don't go on and on about how much more safe you are from the 1 in a trillion chance something happens |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/05/16 at 20:41:35 233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:
is that an "S" on your chest?? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/16 at 20:55:23 You're looking at Learned Helplessness Perfect quote Jog. Hope you don't mind if I steal that line some other time. Men in todays world have become emasculated. Learned helplessness. Fact is, no one knows how'd they'd act in a violent situation like that but $hit Lost! At least tell yourself ahead of time you'd rather fight back than die like a sheep because no "trained professional ' was around. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/16 at 21:22:04 5675696E5B686E73696E1A0 wrote:
is that an "S" on your chest?? [/quote] Nope. I just am not easily trained. The school knew. The military sent me home. I'm an iconoclast. I butcher the sacred cows. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Paraquat on 07/06/16 at 06:07:26 102225343322350A26352C470 wrote:
Time like this I like to reflect upon the quote: Quote:
--Steve |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/06/16 at 12:02:17 58697A69797D697C080 wrote:
Time like this I like to reflect upon the quote: Quote:
--Steve[/quote] and how many innocent bystanders did you shoot missing all that time?? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/06/16 at 12:45:58 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
is that an "S" on your chest?? [/quote] Nope. I just am not easily trained. The school knew. The military sent me home. I'm an iconoclast. I butcher the sacred cows. [/quote] so I need to shoot you first, big scary man you!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhh :D |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/06/16 at 13:10:19 182A2D3C3B2A3D022E3D244F0 wrote:
So, an untrained civilian is better than a trained professional then? how does that work in the rest of your world?? and I don't need to prove my manliness to you two scaredy cats who jump at shadows, shadows of conspiracies, or shadows of fictional greatness, your both chasing something to make yourselves feel special. you guys try so hard to make all us "sheep" realize that you and only you have the answers we all need to solve our problems in this life, and we'd be lost without you, oh please, please great ones, enlighten us on how much danger we are all in if we aren't carrying 24/7/365, or if we let the evil moooslimbs in, after all, everyone is out to get us!!!! oh no!!!!! meanwhile back in my life, I'm going to finish my work shift and drive home safe and sound because it is safe and sound, sure, anything can happen, but it probably won't, and if it did, I'm going to have to deal with it as I am now, not as you wish I was, sure I might struggle more than if I was the ultimate prepper, but I'm not living in that much fear, and yes, it is fear, even if you think it's just wisdom and forsight again, if you want to carry 24/7/365 because it makes you feel better, go for it, I don't want to stop you, if it makes you feel good, do it, you big macho man you! :-* 10 Cloverfield Lane |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by verslagen1 on 07/06/16 at 15:21:54 13302C2B1E2D2B362C2B5F0 wrote:
http://graphics.wsj.com/orlando-shooting/ [/quote] so it only counts if you use your gun in self defense and you kill the perp? Plenty of accounts where the bad guy is ran off and doesn't die. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/06/16 at 15:51:11 The You should not be able to defend yourself bunch Will NOT be swayed by reason. They will pretend that the responsible citizen who is carrying is more likely to be killed by his own gun, regardless of the evidence to the contrary, than protecting life and property. PEOPLE, WAKE THE crappity smack UP!The right to keep and bear arms is not about hunting or even self defense. Those were things that Every Body took for Granted.Even Idiots knew that protecting self and property was a given. Today, not so much. The Truth of the second amendment is to Ensure that the People are able to Cast off a Tyrannical government. If you Still don't see that, you're unable to understand what being American is. You're part of the problem. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/06/16 at 18:33:53 455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:
are you lumping me in that group?? where did I EVER say anything of the sort? are you reading what you WANT me to be into what I AM, substituting reality with your own delusion?? or are you just changing the subject, making it even more extreme to benefit your argument? oh, and if you think that you're little 45 ACP pistol or AR15 is going to do anything against our military might, well, how many bridges can I put you down for? and also, you're making an argument for that nitpicky first part of the second amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State... " did you join your State's National Guard? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 07/06/16 at 19:35:58 54776B6C596A6C716B6C180 wrote:
Why do you think the 2A is the second amendment in the Bill of Rights? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by LostArtist on 07/06/16 at 20:34:24 4D5A5C505F4F3D0 wrote:
Why do you think the 2A is the second amendment in the Bill of Rights? Best regards,[/quote] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." it limits federal powers over state run militias and how states want to regulate arms. The Constitution is a NEGATIVE power document, it restricts the powers of the federal government over the states. Up until 2008 it was understand as a states right issue, then the SCOTUS ruled that it was an individuals right. I'm not all up on that, but that's how it was ruled, so that's what it is for now, you know, until it's interpreted to amended again. it is indeed not about hunting or self defense. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Paraquat on 07/07/16 at 06:16:11 75564A4D784B4D504A4D390 wrote:
Quote:
Tell you what, I'm better than 30% hit ratio. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/07/16 at 11:13:42 3B242225383F0E3E0E36242863510 wrote:
That government,.. was the king of England... That threat, is kinda' over... I'm not too worried about England invading us...(I don't think they'd want us any more)... It ain't there to permit you to commit treason against America... They'll kill you for that... and guns won't do you a bit of good against them... Waco, Ruby Ridge, and whatever this latest chucklebutt confederate was... Lose, lose, lose... Your guns give you the illusion that you have the power to make a stand... That's just dangerous... .:-? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/07/16 at 11:41:21 It would take days of hanging out and swilling beer to correct the wrong headedness of that one post. The complete lack of understanding who We the People are and how the government is not sovereign, we are, Understand that just because They do something that doesn't make it lawful. And the Founding Fathers were Well aware that the war was won When they wrote the second amendment. They were warning us from the beginning. Read more, Look for things that would go against what you have been led to believe. I'm right and I Can prove it. The Supreme Court has ruled that I am correct. I've typed it over and over again and I don't want to again. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/08/16 at 21:11:57 ... And just because something is "lawful" doesn't mean it's right. It doesn't make it a good idea, and it doesn't mean we like it or wish to live with it. It simply means that the government that supposedly represents us made a decision to run the country a particular way and punish certain actions. It implies that maybe... just maybe... the majority of people wanted it that way... but that argument is so full of holes. Since when does the majority get what they want these days? Besides, it doesn't matter that the majority wanted it that way if the majority wanted to take away everyone else's freedoms. How dangerous is 51%? In the end it really only means the government we elected (or the goverment that wasn't elected, for that matter) wanted it that way. That's law. That's order. That's "justice," if you call it that. It's simply what a bunch of people in high places thought was best for us. And some worship it like a god. You might say they even make human sacrifice to it... every time a good person's life is ruined or ended for no other reason than to make sure the wrath of law and government is appeased. They make principle more important than people. What a shame... |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/08/16 at 23:24:39 And what is it that you want? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by thumperclone on 07/09/16 at 00:56:44 524D4B4C51566757675F4D410A380 wrote:
peace will do nicely thank you and what do you want? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/09/16 at 05:23:41 JOG is 100% correct on this. Sew's understanding of the 2nd Amendment is the equivalent of saying 2 + 2 = 5. And not just to pick on Sew, but many others on here are just as wrong. It's original meaning is not debatable. All you have to do is read the writings of those who wrote and debated it at the time. It doesn't matter what you think it means or what you wished it meant. The second amendment is for the people to protect themselves and this nation against an oppressive government. Their own first, others, second. It's not about hunting, not about shooting empty beer cans in the woods, not about going to the range with your own AR15; it's bigger than that. It's the 2nd Amendment. Directly behind the first. Could this happen in the USA tomorrow? No. 10 years from now? Maybe, unlikely, but you certainly have to admit the possibility. It's almost a natural order of evolution of a nation. By the way, look at all the federal agencies who have been granted arrest authority and arm their own security divisions. I believe I read there are 67 government agencies with firepower. 67! I also remember reading somewhere that all together, these agencies have more armed agents than the US Marines have armed soldiers. Why does the EPA need an armed force? I'll tell you why and it's already been done. When the local law enforcement office refuses to use force to impel a citizen to 'obey' the ruling of an unelected bureaucrat from the EPA to leave their land for example, they use their 'brownshirts' to do the enforcing for them. It wasn't that long ago that fully armed 'agents' raided an Alaskan town looking for Clean Water Act violations. There may come a time in your lifetime Sew that you and others comfortable right now find themselves living in a nightmare, a prison with bars made from one agency after another directing everything you do. Don't be foolish and let cowards calling for gun control try to tell you what the 2nd amendment means. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/09/16 at 08:10:28 Okay,.. let's say that's true... If at some point in the future there are jackbooted, MIB, thugs, breaking down doors and stealing us away in the night... you know what I won't do?... Take them on with a gun... If you do,... you'll leave home in a bag... In this day and age,... it just ain't realistic... The day of muzzleloaders in gone... The founders couldn't see this coming. A drone could take out every square inch of your home from a mile in the sky... what will a peashooter do against that?... That imagining of the 2nd amendment is silly fantasy... Meanwhile,.. we have monthly gun death tolls that rival the 9/11 body count... So, let's worry about some imagined scenario where we get all Rambo against our own government,... instead of facing the very real problem that keeps our flags at half mast more often than they fly at full... That's patriotic... :-? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/09/16 at 08:40:59 If at some point in the future there are jackbooted, MIB, thugs, breaking down doors and stealing us away in the night... you know what I won't do?... Take them on with a gun... Then you'll be a slave, living on someone else's whims. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/09/16 at 08:48:05 In this day and age,... it just ain't realistic... The day of muzzleloaders in gone... The founders couldn't see this coming. A drone could take out every square inch of your home from a mile in the sky... what will a peashooter do against that?... You say that but Russia screwed around in Afganastan for years without defeating the underarmed populace, we've screwed around in Iraq for a decade with all the military might available and walked away, we were held off in the jungles of vietnam. The American colonists up against a vadt superior army, stii defeated England at the time. The founders saw this very well. A "well regulated militia" of citizens in the US would hold off an invading US government quite well. Regardless, it's better than rolling over with you a$$ in the air which is apparently your plan. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/16 at 08:53:12 While those who don't yet grasp the reasons for the second amendment are reading founding documents in hopes of gaining an accurate understanding of what America is and their true place In America I suggest they keep an eye out for odd phrases like When the tree of of Liberty requires the Blood of Patriots, etc,, Actually, Bot, your Point is well made, but it is more reasonably used Not to explain why gun control is a good idea, but more than anything else, that OUR SERVANTS are becoming more oppressive and Our SERVANTS out gun US should be dealt with by making Them either less well armed Or, the People should be more able,, is that something you can absorb? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/09/16 at 08:55:31 Meanwhile,.. we have monthly gun death tolls that rival the 9/11 body count... So, let's worry about some imagined scenario where we get all Rambo against our own government,... instead of facing the very real problem that keeps our flags at half mast more often than they fly at full... You don't want to really face the problem anymore than any elected official does. Guns aren't our problem, certain sub-cultures in our couny are. The suburb I live in has 40,000 people, probably 5,000 guns, some of which are those evil assault rifles yet we've had zero gun crimes in the 20 years Ive lived here. Zero. Why is that? You think taking 5000 guns away from my suburb is going to do anything? That's laughable. You think we're silly looking at a scenario unlikely to happen, but you are more so for being to cowardly to really address the souce of the vast majority of gun crimes. So make yourself feel better for passing restrictions only people like me will follow, but will not change a thing. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/09/16 at 09:04:14 And will you be living free in that bag?... Will your family thank you for leaving them helpless?... Think Holocaust... Surviving is more heroic than dying... Name an instance when one of these survival/militia nuts won... It don't happen,... This is the 2nd amendment delusion... :-? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/09/16 at 09:16:11 If Mike Tyson ever gave me any cr@p,.. boy, I'd show him a thing or two... I'd punch his lights out... Sounds stupid, don't it?... :-? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/16 at 09:18:49 Maybe philosophical thinking just isn't your strong point. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/09/16 at 09:25:02 Maybe common sense ain't yours... :-? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/16 at 09:32:17 You, as everyone else does, Believe that you're imminently sensible, but How is it Possible to be sensible about anything when your basic understanding of the topic is so far from correct? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/09/16 at 11:03:03 To be left alone to conduct my life and business as I see fit without worrying about g-men knocking down my doors. That includes all the powers of the second amendment. I don't want to be a slave. Here's an interesting bit. Ever notice that we talk so much about guns specifically? What about other weapons like huge knives, steel knuckles, black jacks, and nunchucks? Ever notice that a lot alternative weapons are restricted or banned? But we make a big thing about carrying guns. Why? It's probably partly because everyone assumes the Second Amendment only refers to firearms. What do you think would happen in this day if we didn't have the Second Amendment? |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by WebsterMark on 07/09/16 at 12:40:15 796F78657D68657E0A0 wrote:
It's not happened here in the US for the last 240 years but boy, it was sure important back then! |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by Serowbot on 07/09/16 at 12:57:58 Yes, it was... |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/16 at 13:15:46 The colonists were pretty much slapping Tyson. The Empire? A rag tag band is gonna Defeat the British? Who would ever Try? And, I know you Believe that the People would be so easily taken, but if that's true, why can't we defeat rag tag bands in far away places? How many of our people in uniform would go home to help their families? How many would Not agree with the orders? Just BELIEVING that Americans are defeated and envisioning How it would be doesn't mean that you have exhausted all the potential outcomes. You're Biased and believe that the People are actually beholden to and SERVANTS of the almighty government. But, you're wrong. We are the masters and they the servants, the People are what Created the government, and they have been misbehaving. The Ballot Box needs to be respected. JFK said Those who make peaceful revolution impossible Make violent revolution inevitable. In an alleged democratic society, opinions and attitudes of the masses are controlled by historical myths and propaganda as much as possible. They do what they do for our own good. And, because so many are so easily duped, people like me are swept away by the tide of lemmings running to prove that They understand how good it is.. And a bunch of people are waking up. We need more. The discussion about the Second Amendment will be front and center when Hillary is in. We Seriously need to avoid that. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/09/16 at 13:29:32 Wasn't the Civil War historically considered to be one of the first big wins in the federal power grab? Or am I a little off here? Don't believe that garbage they teach you in elementary school. The Civil War wasn't just about slavery. There was more to it than that. I think Abe Lincoln once even offered to let them keep their slaves if they would stop fighting. Obviously, that didn't work. It's kinda interesting that, in a way, the Southerners were fighting for their own freedom, but then they wanted to keep other people as slaves. ::) If I correctly recall, the North was powerful and populous, relying on an industrial economy. Because of their high population, they were very powerful in Congress and got whatever they wanted while the Southern farmers got the shaft. The interests of two different cultures within one nation collided, and the result was secession and war. What will happen when the interests of the socialistic, big city, big-government left collide with the back country, libertarian, small-government right? Hmmm... This reminds me of what happened 240 years ago. Those big government, big city yankees whipped the freedom-fighting back-country rebels. Seems like remnants of the cultures surrounding the Civil War are still with us today. Does an urban lifestyle somehow encourage support for big government, and does the seclusion of a rural lifestyle somehow encourage rebellion? Some interesting things to think about. Where do you see the most leftist policies? Generally around big cities like New York. Where do you see the opposite? In remote places like Alaska. Texas would be another example, but I reckon they have their own big cities. I guess they're just in a league of their own. With increasing population, there seems to be a loss of freedom. |
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Title: Re: Constitutional Carry Post by pg on 07/09/16 at 14:17:59 15362A2D182B2D302A2D590 wrote:
Why do you think the 2A is the second amendment in the Bill of Rights? Best regards,[/quote] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." it limits federal powers over state run militias and how states want to regulate arms. The Constitution is a NEGATIVE power document, it restricts the powers of the federal government over the states. Up until 2008 it was understand as a states right issue, then the SCOTUS ruled that it was an individuals right. I'm not all up on that, but that's how it was ruled, so that's what it is for now, you know, until it's interpreted to amended again. it is indeed not about hunting or self defense. [/quote] Actually, that was a pretty good response LA. The only thing I would add is the 2A is before the 3A for the following reasons. The 3A is about quartering troops and I suspect they did not ask if they could camp out for the night. I'm speculating, although, I bet they just took the finest land, with the cattle, food supplies, and anything that was of any value. That's why they squeezed the 2A where they did. Pretty smart I reck'on. Best regards, |
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