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Message started by youzguyz on 06/07/16 at 07:38:24

Title: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/07/16 at 07:38:24

well hell..
Thumper has a bad case of low stator output.

Rectifier barely goes above battery normal at the output.
Stator only giving 80 jolts AC at 5000 rpm.
That is on all 3 legs.
I show 1.1 ohms across any 2 legs.
Another oddity, and probably the root of all evil, is I have .8 ohms between two legs ground, and .2 ohms between the 3rd leg and ground.
Should not be any connection anywhere to ground.
So. The .2 ohm leg is shorted to ground.. somewhere.
Actually, the .2 ohm is a DEAD short on my meter. That is what it reads with the leads shorted together.
I'm hoping the short is outside the case.

Soooo. why am I posting this? Because I can.. and because I want to know if anyone out there has replaced the stator. If so, where did you get it and how much did you pay? Hopefully, I won't need one. ::)

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by verslagen1 on 06/07/16 at 07:57:42

This wasn't the one we swapped the rectumfryer is it?
You'll need to remove the airbox as the wire is run behind it.
I'd clean the connector and recheck it 1st.

Post an ad in the Marketplace, I'm sure someone will have one.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/07/16 at 08:22:01

243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:

No.. that was Hamish.

Thumper got a bit of a fry job the other day when I was trying to jump a Harley. Did a stupid and tried to move the bikes a bit with the cable attached. Clip came off and there was smoke and flames, but it was all by the Harley, and the only obvious damage was my low current "jumper" cable. Could have heated something up around my battery box and caused the short I am seeing now.

I plan on getting to the cable from one end to the other early tomorrow before it gets hot out.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Serowbot on 06/07/16 at 08:51:51

Circumstances sound like you cooked a wire somewhere...

It has to be.
We all know your engines are beyond bulletproof.
UnnnnnnBreakable!... ;D

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/08/16 at 04:35:13

I am about to replace the stator on mine. It has the same symptoms. I measure varying ohm short to ground on all 3 leads. Relatively even ohms measurements between all leads. But, there should be no reading from any lead to ground.

While running, I barely get above battery voltage on the reg/rec output. When riding the battery slowly dies. It's not as fast as no charge situation but still slowly dies.

I'm trying one of the ebay stators...not genuine Suzuki. Will let everone know how it goes this weekend when I do it. The stator is here and looks to be well made. Hope it works well.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/08/16 at 06:27:29

5046514C54414C57230 wrote:

Circumstances sound like you cooked a wire somewhere...

It has to be.
We all know your engines are beyond bulletproof.
UnnnnnnBreakable!... ;D

Hey Bot...
(Speaking like Kahn as he quotes from Melville's MobyDick) To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee! >:(

Yes, you jinxed it.. YES .. YOU!!!! Not a simple short somewhere in the cable. It's in the stator.. :(

Oh.. and your still OK by me.. :D

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/08/16 at 06:28:52

455E07040502000F360 wrote:

Steve, YES, I am VERY interested in which one you got and how well it works out!!! May the force be with you..

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Serowbot on 06/08/16 at 07:40:51

Dang!,.. sorry Youz...
Your high miler bikes are inspirational to me...
...if it makes you feel any better,... my stator crapped out at 30k... :-?

PS.. buy a new gasket... it's very likely the old one will tear during R&R...
It's that darn giant magnet pulling back at you... :P

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/08/16 at 16:37:10

I have just over 25k and mine's died. How'd you get it to last so long?

The replacement I have will have to be spliced into the original wiring. I emailed the guy selling them and he assured me that it's a perfect replacement for the stator but to keep the cost down, they opted not to have the full length wires or the ignition pickup.

I found some instructions on a Honda web site where they were rewinding fireblade stators because all the aftermarket ones burned up very quickly and the factory ones weren't too much better.
I might be tempted to try it with the old stator once I change it out and have a working one in the bike.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Kris01 on 06/08/16 at 19:51:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9ARfF9x0o

Scroll to 14:00! ;D

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/09/16 at 02:52:44

7A61383B3A3D3F30090 wrote:

I'm just .. lucky I guess. I don't ride really fast for long distances, as I spend most of my time on back roads. The engine has held up well with just oil changes. Changed the cam chain once.
I believe that if you don't let the bike sit, it will last longer.

You got a link to the stator you bought? I'm starting to check around, and will put a post on Market.

I saw instructions for rewinding a stator a while ago. Sure looks like a lot of work. My main concern could be nicking that wire and getting a short.
One of the instructions I saw mentioned keeping a meter (or powered buzzer) hooked up to the stator base and the bitter end of wire as you do the winding. That way, you will know as soon as you get a short and can correct the situation.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by KennyG on 06/09/16 at 06:33:37

Guyz,

I am not sure if it is the same thing, but the alternator on my Norton, one of the finer Lucas everfail products, gave out after about about 30,000 miles. The machinist at York Mack Truck rewound it. It weighed twice as much as stock, and it was still working somewhere near 270,000 miles.

I would think for rewinding anything with copper wire, an electric motor repair shop would be the way to go. They rewind everything from tiny motors to the giant motors in elevators.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/09/16 at 17:10:13

Here a link to the one I ordered. He's got some sort of issue with pricing going on right now. The price is $1000 too high since he updated his ads. I wrote him letting him know so it should be fixed soon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SUZUKI-LS-650-SAVAGE-STATOR-MAGNETO-1986-2007-P-IS15-/250884521007?hash=item3a69e1fc2f:m:mLrb0QJxZWh2KCwvtBQ0HxQ&vxp=mtr

We have a couple of very good rewind shops here in town. I might have to run by them and see what they would charge to do it.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by KennyG on 06/10/16 at 05:52:24

Steve,

It never hurts to check local mechanics and craftsmen.

I was looking for 8mm fuel line and found the Kubota Tractor dealers have it in stock.

I saw a bunch of hydraulic fittings and asked if he could make motorcycle disk brake hoses. He said if I bring my fittings and old hose in he can make a new one for $10.00.

The machine shop at the York, PA, Mack truck garage helped keep Limey bikes running for years. The work was beautiful and the price was very reasonable. Picture a British bike that didn't leak oil.???

Kenny G

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/16 at 11:30:05

. Picture a British bike that didn't leak oil.??

Ha! Nooo problem,, I just leaned back, closed the eyes and saw a beautiful older Brit bike, and it was not leaking a Drop.

It was empty..

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/10/16 at 17:34:18

I was always told if there's no oil under 'em, there's no oil in 'em.

That's quite an achievement sealing up an old brit bike so it doesn't leak.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by KennyG on 06/10/16 at 18:11:19

The machinist at York Mack Truck was very talented. He made the cut for an oil seal where the Limeys put in an o-ring.

He was great at milling, fitting and lapping mating surfaces.

The Japanese were clever enough to take the British designs and correct them before they brought their product to the market place.

The reason the motorcycle manufacturers in the UK went out of business is they relied on customers to correct the deficiencys in their product.

And one day the kid down the street bought a Honda and while all of us riding Nortons & Triumphs were doing the repair work he was having fun. He told people all the fun he was having and he didn't even know how to wipe his nose let alone try to fix a motorbike.

Kenny G

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/16/16 at 17:45:06

Well, I got the stator changed out and the wiring splicing was a little fun but worked without any big problems. I am happy to say it appears to be charging. It's idling around 13.6 to 13.7V and jumps to around 14.5 when you twist the throttle a little.

Anectdotally, the lights when I first got it fixed were sort of dim and yellowish. After riding about 5 miles, they were nice bright white lights. I haven't had any problems starting or anything that looks like low battery since putting everything back together.

The bike had another problem that had developed since it had been sitting waiting for me to fix the stator. It wouldn't hit a lick. The engine would crank over just fine. All noises were normal. It just wouldn't fire for anything. I drained the tank, gave the carb a good cleaning. Still nothing even spraying starting fluid in. Turned out that somehow the spark plug had started arcing from insulator to metal way up inside. As soon as I replaced the plug, it hit first time. (I did blow away the crud before removing the plug)

I noticed that the new stator is about 5 laminations thicker than the original. On the original, they have little plastic guides at the end of each pole. They are close to 1/8" wide on each side. This one fills that space with extra metal. It also appears, I didn't measure it, to be one gauge thicker wire. If so, the combination of extra metal, thicker wire should make for more watts generating capability and hopefully not burn out as easily.

I'll post up a message with a few pics sometime this weekend when I have time for those that may be interested.

edit: to correct spelling

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/16/16 at 17:49:51

lapping mating surfaces.

If that's possible without machinery, I Might be guilty.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by KennyG on 06/16/16 at 17:50:27

Steve,

Where did you purchase your new stator?

Kenny G

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Kris01 on 06/16/16 at 17:57:34

It won't MAKE more power but it will HANDLE more power. ;)

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/16/16 at 20:57:35

KennyG,

I got the stator from PCC Parts on ebay. He's always got them for around $35. It looks to be well made.

Kris,

I've always been told more laminations (actually about 1/8" thicker) means more magnetic flux conducted. With the same number and size of windings, the voltage should be higher. With increased wire diameter, the current should be higher. With the same number of windings and heavier wire, it should produce a little higher voltage and a little more current unless we are already at magnetic saturation either due to magnet strength or core design.

But, with no more increase than there is here, it's probably negligible anyway. I'm just hoping it holds up well and doesn't fry.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Kris01 on 06/17/16 at 05:07:57

Hmmm, that does sound feasible. I may be wrong. It's happened before!

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/17/16 at 12:24:15

I may be wrong too. It's been a long time since I have been exposed to very much electrical theory.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by mastercarstech on 06/21/16 at 20:35:41

Thanks for the link and info Steve. I've got the same issue, low output from the charging system. Took about 2 weeks of riding before the battery went dead. I just got this basket case together and running so hasn't been going to far from home till I thought it was going to be dependable. Two weeks of riding without any real problem should be good to go right? Nope! Lol.
Anyways, tested the output on the 3 stator wires, 1 pair had a little over 80 volts at idle and well over 100 at about 3-4000rpm. The other 2 pairs had about 25 volts at idle and only around 50 at 3-4000rpm. Further testing found 1 wire shorted to ground and open to the other 2 wires. Didn't find any damage to the harnessso I pulled the stator and am gonna replace it.
Has there been any problems with a shorted stator taking out the regulator? Wondering if I shouldn't just replace both while I'm at it? Any thoughts? :-/

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by Steve H on 06/22/16 at 04:51:43

Yeah...that's about what it took to find out mine wasn't charging adequately. Since it was charging some, it took a good while to finally kill the battery enough for it not to start.

I don't know if it will kill the reg/rec or not. It shouldn't unless it gets way over voltage. The input to the reg/rec is just diodes.

I don't know if anybody will have a good answer on that one for you. I don't remember hearing of it but just might not have read the posting it was in.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by mastercarstech on 06/22/16 at 07:17:40

Thanks Steve. Guess I'll replace the stator first and see how it does. At least the regulator is easy to get at. Still waiting on a reply from your guy on ebay for the correct pricing on one, he still has it listed for over a grand. Lol. I messaged him last night but no response yet.
I just wanna ride! ;D

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 06/30/16 at 13:38:22

Finally getting back to this thread. Work gets in the way.. and my experience on this fix was a lot worse than Steve's!!!! >:(

Here is a picture of the old and new stator with wiring harness.
NOTE: The harness looks goofy. Too much wire on the stator side of the oil seal. You have to trim the insulation on the stator side, then slide the oil seal towards the stator until the wires are the right length.

Then.. I noticed an extra, and OPEN hole in the oil seal. HUH?? :o
Plugged it with a piece of plastic.

Put it together, and the oil seal is just a bit too tall.. it sticks up higher than flush with the cover.
OK.. sand it down a bit, but leave a bit of a bump so it will squish down to the gasket when I bolt it up.

Bolt it up.. oil leak. Open it up, and the gasket wasn't sitting quite right, and it got ruined.
Order OEM gasket instead of 3rd party knock off. New gasket in. Better material, smoother cuts, much nicer.
Bolt it up. Not leaking. Go for a ride... and .. it is trying to imitate a Harley by marking it's spot when I go to eat lunch. Another oil leak.
Open it up. There is oil inside the cable. That oil seal that gave me so much grief just isn't gripping the wires tight enough.. I though it slid kind of easy when I was adjusting the wires.
Now.. not a happy camper.
Grabbed the old oil seal. Took FOREVER to dig all old wires out of there.. but finally got all the pieces out.

Had to cut my nice new harness to take off the new oil seal and put the wires into the original oil seal.
Had to use a hair dryer to heat the seal up to get it soft enough so I could force the wires through.
Then spliced the wires back together. Same way Steve H did it. Staggered the cuts, buttsplice solder, heat shrink, very pretty end result.

Put it all back together.. again. (Man, I am getting GOOD at this! ;D ).
Took it out for a ride this morning, and .. it looks like I finally got it back to how it should be. I'll keep an eye on the voltage output (my splices could have been better) and oil situation.

I'm still glad I replaced the harness, as the old one was pretty brittle.
HOWEVER, for those of you with not so high mileage, go Steve H's route and just get a stator that you will have to splice in.
Save some money, and may save you some of the grief I had!!!

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/16 at 20:35:11

How many ohm's across any 2 legs now?

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/16 at 20:42:04

Quite an ordeal, Youz,, good job solving that.

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by youzguyz on 08/07/16 at 12:02:06

73607776696462606B34050 wrote:

How many ohm's across any 2 legs now?

1.5 ohms

Title: Re: Low stator output
Post by LS650THUMPER on 11/12/16 at 18:23:01

I have the charging system issue, Im putting in new stator tomorrow. I had replaced the rectumfryer early summer... fyi new stator and gasket in beantown will run u 456.55 for stator, 13.95 for gasket --> 470.50 plus 29.41 tax = $499.91